Steppe Ancestry in western Eurasia and the spread of the Germanic Languages

[alanarchae]

likely relevant - Elp culture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elp_culture

given its links to Denmark it’s likely alsu relevant to Denmark and whatever language was spoken there before Germanic overlaid it.

[Rodoorn]

kind of supports the idea of a Celts or NW block group in the Netherlands until pretty late on.

likely relevant - Elp culture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elp_culture

given its links to Denmark it’s likely alsu relevant to Denmark and whatever language was spoken there before Germanic overlaid it.

In add to this there are indications that this is supported by archeology. For example: the Hondsrug area in Drenthe (inland North Dutch) was one of Europe's most dense Bell Beaker hotspots. Elp is a place in Drenthe.

In Eelde- on the Hondsrug, beneath the city of Groningen- we find a settlement that can be traced back to Bell Beaker times, a very rich BB grave is found there. The settlement was left in....400 AD.  In other words: with the incoming Germanics.

It's likely that there was some BB related ENS that left its traces in (North) Dutch population. On the Hondsrug in Drenthe more than in Westergo Friesland, which was about 400 AD depopulated (so no ENS left).

I guess they have a strong case.

Anyhow imo, the link with Denmark is more that "Danish IA related" Germanics overlaid ENS in the North Dutch area!

[Parastais]

Sorry if this has been asked, but are Raw data available for this study?

[ChrisR]

Just to extract the 4 Y-DNA J2 (1850-1323 cal BP)

Russia Alan CGG022004 Kat_N_333 CentralEasternEurope Russia Kabardino-Balkaria Zaragizh 43.334882 43.711554 NA NA NA NA context 1750 1450 1600 200 500 350 MigrationPeriod Alan CGG022004 1.02601 XY U1a1a 1 0.8921 9-306 309 311-1101 1159-3105 3108-4164 4192-4426 4800-5065 5132-5150 5182-5186 5215-5621 5707-5921 6152-6796 6815-6819 6834-7067 7132-7391 7493-7502 7504-7516 7518-7532 7582-8270 8272-8296 8320-8807 8965-16179 16181-16566 16570-16569 1-16569 0.9998352 0.9964574 0.9999751 J2a1a1a2a2a NA NA
France LateAntiquity CGG023715 Camp_du_Château_Sépulture_2_1922 WesternEurope France Bourgogne_Franche_Compt Camp_du_Château Open_air 46.943104 5.855318 Bone_and_tooth Petrous 400CE-700CE 1421 25 9.1 -19.6 UBA-41247 1352 1294 1323 598 656 627 Medieval LateAntiquity CGG023715 6.00609 XY U5b2b4a 1 1 1-4431 4727-4768 4770-4774 4776-5162 5187-5192 5194-5621 5705-5946 6123-7039 7106-7403 7521-8812 8966-16569 0.983865 0.9777462 0.9885282 J2a1a1a2b2a2b2~ NA NA
Netherlands Roman CGG107753 CL032 (I052) WesternEurope Netherlands Province South-Holland Valkenburg Marktveld Roman Cemetery 52.174446 4.436957 Bone Petrous NA NA NA NA context 2000 1700 1850 -50 250 100 IronAge Roman CGG107753 1.86158 XY K1a4 1 0.8923 2-1090 1179-4136 4138 4140-4141 4143 4243-4412 4415-4417 4813-5069 5071-5072 5076-5084 5241-5604 5652-5656 5706-5918 5920-5921 6132-6754 6762-6765 6826-7039 7041-7050 7052-7062 7114-7365 7607-7727 7732 7756-8279 8378-8795 8975-16567 16570-16569 1-16569 0.9989037 0.9937275 0.999869 J2a1a1b2a1b1b~ NA NA
Hungary Sarmatian CGG021924 Kiskundorozsma_1624 CentralEasternEurope Hungary Kiskundorozsma Kiskundorozsma 46.064763 19.271612 1880 15 12.3 -15.2 UCI-222651 1829 1735 1782 121 215 168 MigrationPeriod Sarmatian CGG021924 0.235152 XY J1c2 1 0.8492 4827-5022 5306-5541 5770-5876 6217-6310 6343-6576 6605-6611 6617-6752 6889-6989 6991-6993 7200-7289 7642-7742 7744-7747 7841-7924 8017-8267 8396-8560 8567-8571 8608-8742 9031-9087 9278-9370 9471-9587 9704-11617 11646-11717 11730-14435 14437-16567 16570-16569 1-16569 12-305 310-660 700-873 902-907 910-1061 1242-1446 1501-1605 1609-1659 1672-1673 1675-1829 1832-1923 2010-3105 3110-3960 4274-4359 0.9996246 0.9915617 0.9999324 J2b2a1 J2b J2b-L283

[Mitchell-Atkins]

U152>L2 samples

CGG022418 Aisne_Haut_de_France 480-450 BC IronAge LaTene
CGG022430 Aisne_Haut_de_France 514-397 BC IronAge LaTene
CGG107756 Province South-Holland 42 BC to 106 AD IronAge Roman

Hopefully someone is able to drill down further.

The supplement lists more U152, but I'm only seeing two L2.     CGG022430 isn't listed in the supplement that I can find.



EDIT: Found him on a subsequent sheet.

I found them in the "S1. New Ancient Samples metadat worksheet"

On a personal note, I also found a single ancient sample on my mtdna H1bt line,  A male

CGG023706, Bourgogne_Franche_Compt 46.893572 5.836536, 750BCE-450BCE, IronAge, Hallstatt, H1bt 

R1b1a1b1a1a2b1c1a1a1 which in the 2018 ISOGG is U152>L2>Z49>Z142>L562>Z57>Z147

Hopefully, I may have accidentally discovered that there is a lot more Y-dna info (drilled down further than I previously thought) in this table, column AM

[AimSmall]

No worries Mitch. I'd originally deleted that post after finding my answer, but somebody questioned why I deleted a post in this thread. I restored it to show it was my own post and my rationale for deleting it. I don't randomly edit threads for content.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

In case I didn't make it obvious; for the rest of you, there may be a lot more drilling down details to be discovered on your respective haplogroups.

Look at column AM on the first worksheet, S1 
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/...nload=true

and translate via ISOGG 2018 or 2019/2020 versions...for me, the 2018 version did turn up one Control F search that 2019/2020 didn't.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...0789042811

or

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...1078904281

For example


PF7589 sample
CGG022455

S1194 samples
CGG107506
CGG022445
CGG107758

DF19 samples
CGG019200
CGG107761
CGG107763

L238 sample
CGG107023

L21 samples
CGG022457
CGG107529
CGG018915
CGG107746
CGG023647

Z290 sample
CGG022427

DF27 samples
CGG019689
CGG023685
CGG022051

[Anglesqueville]

[Ambiorix]

Now that I have time to look through the Excel spreadsheet in the Supplementary Material, I notice two samples carrying H39, with one of them being the first instance of H39a in the aDNA record! Naturally quite exciting for me since this is my mitochondrial haplogroup  

CGG023274 - Denmark (Jutland) - Site: Nygaard Mose (Dated 450 BCE-0 CE) - H39 (Y-DNA:  R1b1a1b1a1a1g)

CGG018559 - Portugal (Estremadura) - Site: Gruta do Caldeirão (Dated "From recent to Bronze Age", but classified as Medieval Visigothic elsewhere - calibrated 1258 BP) - H39a (Y-DNA:  J1a2a1a2d~)

Not all that surprising to see it pop up in these groups considering the mostly northern distribution of extant H39 (somewhat recently the first H39b sample in aDNA popped up among the "Merovingian" [really Merovingian period, autosomally part of the Saxon-like group IIRC] samples at Koksijde, and prior to this there was an H39 in Roman Iron Age Denmark and several H39+ samples from Middle Bronze Age Orkney), but there is also an H39 sample of a Thracian (?) man buried with a fragment of Wulfilas' Gothic translation of the Bible at Hács, Somogy, Hungary (c. 500-550 CE).

[alanarchae]

makes you wonder about the Cimbri and Teutones who sound to me not to be Germanic unless you totally rely on negative evidence and just poo-poo all the evidence. Could that have been some para Celtic or NW Block kind of people?

[Rodoorn]

makes you wonder about the Cimbri and Teutones who sound to me not to be Germanic unless you totally rely on negative evidence and just poo-poo all the evidence. Could that have been some para Celtic or NW Block kind of people?

Indeed I'm curios how the East North Sea (ENS) cluster can be further operationalized. Obviously a specific BB offshoot, with somewhat higher HG. I guess due to some absorption of TRB West.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

CGG023693  is on my Z150, Z12222 y-dna line... Bourgogne_Franche_Compt,  750BCE-450BCE,  IronAge  Hallstatt

So that's new.  Z150, Z12222 had previously been found in Slovakian La Tene (sample 11712, 190-1 BCE, Bratislava Castle, Slovakia, La Tène).

and now Eastern France Hallstatt

This may provide support for my idea that my-dna  line tended stay near the upper Rhine early on, with a  "brother" branch heading south and east with either with Hallstatt or CisAlpine Gaul migration.

So it appears I possibly have Hallstatt roots on both my y-dna and mtdna lines.

Trying to find additional info on this Les  Moidons/"tumulus de morgan" site .  Not much, but I did come across this excerpt

the wagon burials from the end of the First Iron Age known in the area, those that have been discovered in the Moidons forest, about 6 km as the crow flies, can in no way rival true princely tombs: these are burials in an older barrow of average size and deposited on a very simple wagon with four wheels (Les Moidons ‘Tumulus de Morgan’ and Bois de Parançot T.21 ‘Champ Peupin’). None of these poor wagon graves presents any luxurious objects, whether in gold or imported goods from the Mediterranean area (Piningre & Ganard 2004: 114–125, 155–158, 337–339, fig. 122). In addition, no very large mounds have yet to be reported near Salins-les-Bains.

https://hal.science/hal-01979472/document

Sounds about right, lol

[Pylsteen]

Now that I have time to look through the Excel spreadsheet in the Supplementary Material, I notice two samples carrying H39, with one of them being the first instance of H39a in the aDNA record! Naturally quite exciting for me since this is my mitochondrial haplogroup  

Same, first time I see my W5a2 group that much resolved - in multiple  Denmark IA samples. Eventually they came to 17th century South Holland.

[kolompar]

For those who read my post before I edited it, I did not give the correct models, but the old ones (probably rotten by the presence of kra001 on the right).

But isn't that what we would want to know, whether the model is satisfactory in terms of kra001 related ancestry? You didn't even have any East Asian right pops.
Unfortunately this paper's model isn't too informative either for Levanluhta and Bolshoy even though they are right next door. No separate WSHG source and only one East Asian one. But you can see Levanluhta take Ukraine Meso for their EHG (local?) while Bolshoy possibly get something Botai like.
And for anyone else who thought Acrobat Reader would be the best to open a PDF, Chrome or Edge can display the files that are too large.

[cottager]

In the end, where is the root of I1, the Eastern Baltic or the Danish Islands?