Steppe Ancestry in western Eurasia and the spread of the Germanic Languages

[Webb]

It also appears our oldest P312>DF99 sample. CGG023720, Bourgogne, Hallstatt.

[Cascio]

Alberto Aldrovandi in his article "Diventare longobardi:violenza in franchising" (Becoming Longobard:Franchising violence") wrote that the Longobards, originally few in number, greatly extended their numbers by absorbing into their community all men of proven fighting skill, even those of servile origin.
This happened when the original Winnili or Longobards crossed into Germany (read Paul the Deacon) from Southern Scandinavia and continued during their centuries of migration through Pannonia into Italy.

[Awood]

I didn't look at this closely, but it sounds like they are pushing the I1 + R1a battle ax as the root of proto-Germanic rather than the SW group who was probably either just R1b or R1b + I2-M223 from Single Grave.
EDIT: They also suggest the HG ancestry was non-local suggesting Baltic rather than southern Scandinavia. I wonder if that applies to the origin of I1.

For years I have defended the idea that proto-Germanic developed in the Eastern Baltic (4 words to summarize hundreds of pages of debate) from an initial core coming from groups of Baltic CWs ( and not in southern Scandinavia from a Beakers core). For years I have consequently fought the absurd theories of Udolph and Euler who place the cradle of proto-Germanic in Germany. For years I have also defended the idea that the Jastorf culture corresponds to a zone of contact between the last fringes of continental Celtic cultures and the emerging West Germanic cultures. For this, I have been ridiculed here and elsewhere and insulted many times in other places. I hope that the last defenders of the old nonsense will take the time to carefully read this difficult text, which gives them the final blow.

Their basis seems to be purely on gene flow, which saw a surge of I1 in Denmark and southern Scandinavia in the late Bronze age. It looks like R1a had already spread to western Scandinavia/Norway and was not part of this late push. It does appear that this group already had steppe ancestry, but until we actually see the north Baltic or south Finnish genomes of this I1 source population, it's possible the steppe ancestry was already picked up thousands of years earlier with a R1b or R1a rich population. (ie: SGC or Battle Axe). Unfortunately there are still many missing datapoints. There was R-V88 in TRB which I found interesting, I guess from the central European farmers.

[Awood]

I didn't look at this closely, but it sounds like they are pushing the I1 + R1a battle ax as the root of proto-Germanic rather than the SW group who was probably either just R1b or R1b + I2-M223 from Single Grave.

EDIT: They also suggest the HG ancestry was non-local suggesting Baltic rather than southern Scandinavia. I wonder if that applies to the origin of I1.

For years I have defended the idea that proto-Germanic developed in the Eastern Baltic (4 words to summarize hundreds of pages of debate) from an initial core coming from groups of Baltic CWs ( and not in southern Scandinavia from a Beakers core). For years I have consequently fought the absurd theories of Udolph and Euler who place the cradle of proto-Germanic in Germany. For years I have also defended the idea that the Jastorf culture corresponds to a zone of contact between the last fringes of continental Celtic cultures and the emerging West Germanic cultures. For this, I have been ridiculed here and elsewhere and insulted many times in other places. I hope that the last defenders of the old nonsense will take the time to carefully read this difficult text, which gives them the final blow.

I remember back in 2018 when I joined anthrogenica I was among the first to bring up schrijvers book about protogermanic. I remember the conflicts very well. Credit to you
nevertheless there is something to fix
As per Schrijver thesis he wrote that protogermanic emerged out of balto-finnic speakers imposing their accent ( a kind of Grimm law) to a group of IE speakers. Now we do not see any presence of balto finnic ydna among protogermanic speakers. Protogermanic were   completely R1b U106 and I1. So this means that I1 was in the eastern baltic and spoke uralic? That seems strange. 
R1b did not speak uralic.
R1a did not speak uralic
WHG did not speak uralic
EHG did not speak uralic

We have to posit uralic ydna in a place with IE speakers ( mostly being R1b U106)
We have a long way to go

Based on the data I would say I1 spoke some paleo-European language. N1c introduced Uralic from east of the Urals considerably later. If I'm not mistaken N1c only pops up in the Baltic in the late Bronze and Iron Age, and certainly the I1 group were already in the area. The steppe group must have been rich in R1a or R1b depending on which wave introduced it to the East Scandinavian group. If it was earlier, it would likely be the R1a BA one, otherwise the R1b SGC one. There is no I1 on the steppe to date, and it would be a fallacy to associate that group with the steppes.

[Manofthehour]

A really important paper... but also very disappointing for me and other italians with sure genalogical records that show ancestors who claimed officially to be of the Longobard ethnic group and to follow the Longobard law... many of us are in the R-Z36-A7993 group... but probably we have to take into account a NPE in the centuries, because I can't see any R-Z36-A7993 sample...

Only two Z36 in Halstatt (but one is a Bronze Age sample)... a mistery that U152 subclade... at this point, until some revolutionary Longobard results, R-Z36-A7993 and subclades weren't originally part of a Germanic-speaking group. Records and DNA discord...

I'd speculate that most Z36 in Northern Italy is of Bell Beaker, Polada, and other Bronze Age Alpine origins (plus Cisalpline Gauls). The association of Z36 with Lombardic surnames may be more just coincedence owing to the Alpine/Gaulish heritage in Lombardy, where some people may have been acculturated by Lombards later on. 

Though the Lombards themselves probably picked up some Central European Z36 in their migrations southwards.

[Dewsloth]

A really important paper... but also very disappointing for me and other italians with sure genalogical records that show ancestors who claimed officially to be of the Longobard ethnic group and to follow the Longobard law... many of us are in the R-Z36-A7993 group... but probably we have to take into account a NPE in the centuries, because I can't see any R-Z36-A7993 sample...

Only two Z36 in Halstatt (but one is a Bronze Age sample)... a mistery that U152 subclade... at this point, until some revolutionary Longobard results, R-Z36-A7993 and subclades weren't originally part of a Germanic-speaking group. Records and DNA discord...

In Italy after the fall of the Lombard Kingdom families often switched between roman and longobard law and viceversa along generations mostly to take advantage of the different inheritance laws, for some noble family we still have documentary proof of these changes.
Plus you should consider that also before the fall of that kingdom in its later phase there was some mobility through the law to follow.
Plus Paulus Diaconus tell us of the number of Pannonians (=roman provincials) which followed the Longobards in invading Italy and they, as all the others accompanying the Longobards (except for the Saxons which will abandon Italy also for this reason), will come to follow the longobard law.
Plus you should consider that the pre-invasion longobard history is one of absorption of several other peoples.
So knowing that your ancestor followed in Italy for a period of time the longobard law doesn't mean your ancestors are actually of germanic origins even less so of the original early ancient times Longobard tribe in northern Germany.

I still wouldn't write off Longobard ancestry completely.
Here we have perhaps the flip-side of the Longobard and Gothic snowballs:  An individual from the Avar paper with NWEuro (probably Germanic, given the other ancients to date) YDNA, but very little NWEuro left autosomally by the time the Avars and Longobards collude against the Gepids:

Here with ancient individuals:

Target: RKF263  R-P312>DF19>DF88>>>Z17112
Distance: 0.9176% / 0.00917625 | ADC: 0.5x RC
25.4 Hungary_LateAvar:SZKT-311.SG
20.4 Germany_AltInden_Saxon_EMedieval:IND003.A_noUDG
12.2 Croatia_SisakPogorelec_Roman.SG:R2041.SG
12.0 Spain_Roman_oMixed:I10866
9.0 Hungary_Conqueror_Elite:K2-52.SG
8.6 Spain_Visigoth:I12031
3.6 Hungary_Transtisza_LAvar:I16743
3.2 India_RoopkundB:I3404
3.0 Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:IBE-161.SG
2.4 Croatia_Sipar_Roman.SG:R3664.SG
0.2 Serbia_LBA:I16814

Note the Visigoth and Saxon samples above are the fellow-traveler populations integrated into Germanic communities, not the high-CNE/North Germanic ones:Show Content

Distance to: Germany_AltInden_Saxon_EMedieval:IND003.A_noUDG
0.02575628 Hungary_Langobard_o2.SG:SZ45.SG
0.02826140 Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:VPB-588.SG
0.03058887 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN014_noUDG
0.03170244 Hungary_MidAvar:TMH-756.SG
0.03296607 Serbia_LBA:I16814
0.03308186 England_EarlyMedieval_Saxon_o:I3011
0.03420682 Hungary_LateAvar:ALT-596.SG
0.03421536 Italy_Medieval_o1.SG:VK538_noUDG.SG
0.03454460 Italy_Medieval_EarlyModern_oCentralEuropean.SG:R1221.SG
0.03477321 Czech_BellBeaker:I4885
0.03513545 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2:CL47
0.03539035 Austria_Klosterneuburg_Roman_oLevant.SG:R10660.SG
0.03548346 Germany_AltInden_Saxon_EMedieval:IND014.A_noUDG
0.03598992 Hungary_MidLateAvar:ALT-442.SG
0.03599239 Hungary_MidAvar:MS-50.SG
0.03612781 Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:SZA-44.SG
0.03647258 Hungary_Langobard_o2:SZ27

Show Content

Spoiler
0.03663073 Germany_AltInden_Saxon_EMedieval:IND017.A_noUDG
0.03688491 Hungary_MidAvar:SSD-151.SG
0.03722747 Hungary_LateAvar:TMH-1273.SG
0.03731998 Hungary_LateAvar:HH-22.SG
0.03753582 Hungary_Langobard_o2:SZ18
0.03800717 Germany_AltInden_Saxon_EMedieval:IND012.A_noUDG
0.03813018 Croatia_EIA:I23904
0.03817454 Denmark_Viking.SG:VK363_noUDG.SG

Distance to: Spain_Visigoth:I12031
0.02229017 Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:NTH-20.SG
0.02430880 Hungary_EarlyArpadian:MH-88.SG
0.02688670 Hungary_EarlyAvar:SZOD1-829.SG
0.02698781 Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:IBE-176.SG
0.02716596 Hungary_Transtisza_LSarmation_EHun:A181025
0.02798018 Hungary_EarlyArpadian:IBE-107.SG
0.02809642 Hungary_LateAvar:TMH-1273.SG
0.02877802 Italy_Medieval_o1.SG:VK538_noUDG.SG
0.02912029 Hungary_DanubeTisza_LSarmation_EHun:A181014

Show Content

Spoiler
0.02942157 Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:HMSZ-245.SG
0.02959472 Denmark_Viking.SG:VK362_noUDG.SG
0.02959909 Hungary_Transtisza_LSarmation_EHun:A181022
0.02982378 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN014_noUDG
0.02993007 Croatia_EIA:I5727
0.02997292 Denmark_Viking.SG:VK363_noUDG.SG
0.03054968 Hungary_Langobard_o2.SG:SZ45.SG
0.03075313 Hungary_MidLateAvar:ALT-442.SG
0.03135194 Hungary_MidAvar:TMH-388.SG
0.03158527 France_Metz_GalloRoman.SG:R2057.SG
0.03195923 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12107
0.03262710 Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:SZA-7.SG
0.03295821 Hungary_Hun:SEI-6.SG
0.03302958 England_LBA_highEEF:I13617
0.03308853 Hungary_LaTene:I18492
0.03313044 Croatia_MLBA:I18739

Averages:
Target: RKF263
Distance: 1.2263% / 0.01226279 | ADC: 0.5x RC
37.6 Hungary_Langobard_o2.SG
16.0 Italy_Medieval_o1.SG
15.8 Serbia_LBA
11.2 Armenia_Beniamin_Urartu_IA.SG
9.8 Spain_Islamic_Zira
9.6 Croatia_SisakPogorelec_Roman.SG

Distances:
Distance to: RKF263
0.02592741 Serbia_LBA
0.02774722 Italy_Medieval_o1.SG
0.02807519 France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity_oLevant.SG
0.02903446 Croatia_Sipar_Roman.SG
0.02953225 Hungary_MidAvar
0.03087311 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2
0.03097691 Germany_EMedieval_Alemanic_SEurope
0.03171753 Austria_Klosterneuburg_Roman_oLevant.SG
0.03183542 Hungary_Langobard_o2
0.03198011 Slovenia_Emona_Roman.SG

From Pannonian Avars Wiki:

Quote:By 562 the Avars controlled the lower Danube basin and the steppes north of the Black Sea.[69][need quotation to verify] By the time they arrived in the Balkans, the Avars formed a heterogeneous group of about 20,000 horsemen.[70] After the Byzantine Emperor Justinian I bought them off, they pushed northwestwards into Germania. However, Frankish opposition halted the Avars' expansion in that direction. Seeking rich pastoral lands, the Avars initially demanded land south of the Danube in present-day Bulgaria, but the Byzantines refused, using their contacts with the Göktürks as a threat against Avar aggression.[71] The Avars turned their attention to the Carpathian Basin and to the natural defenses it afforded.[72] The Carpathian Basin was occupied by the Gepids. In 567 the Avars formed an alliance with the Lombards—enemies of the Gepids—and together they destroyed much of the Gepid kingdom. The Avars then persuaded the Lombards to move into northern Italy, an invasion that marked the last Germanic mass-movement in the Migration Period.

[Hodo Scariti]

A really important paper... but also very disappointing for me and other italians with sure genalogical records that show ancestors who claimed officially to be of the Longobard ethnic group and to follow the Longobard law... many of us are in the R-Z36-A7993 group... but probably we have to take into account a NPE in the centuries, because I can't see any R-Z36-A7993 sample...

Only two Z36 in Halstatt (but one is a Bronze Age sample)... a mistery that U152 subclade... at this point, until some revolutionary Longobard results, R-Z36-A7993 and subclades weren't originally part of a Germanic-speaking group. Records and DNA discord...

In Italy after the fall of the Lombard Kingdom families often switched between roman and longobard law and viceversa along generations mostly to take advantage of the different inheritance laws, for some noble family we still have documentary proof of these changes.
Plus you should consider that also before the fall of that kingdom in its later phase there was some mobility through the law to follow.
Plus Paulus Diaconus tell us of the number of Pannonians (=roman provincials) which followed the Longobards in invading Italy and they, as all the others accompanying the Longobards (except for the Saxons which will abandon Italy also for this reason), will come to follow the longobard law.
Plus you should consider that the pre-invasion longobard history is one of absorption of several other peoples.
So knowing that your ancestor followed in Italy for a period of time the longobard law doesn't mean your ancestors are actually of germanic origins even less so of the original early ancient times Longobard tribe in northern Germany.

Many thanks for your answer. Well, from 1090 (year of the first document about my ancestors in the paternal line) to the first half of the XIV century they have been following the longobard law. They were direct vassals of the Monastery of Saint Julia of Brescia and they had a tower-house in the city where they lived and they founded a settlement in the countryside next to the feudal lands that took the name after them. I thought that they could easily be "original" longobards, given the fact they were milites until the beginning of the XIV century.

Yes, I thought about a Pannonian link... but also the Longobard remains from Hungary aren't Z36>A7993>...

[Hodo Scariti]

A really important paper... but also very disappointing for me and other italians with sure genalogical records that show ancestors who claimed officially to be of the Longobard ethnic group and to follow the Longobard law... many of us are in the R-Z36-A7993 group... but probably we have to take into account a NPE in the centuries, because I can't see any R-Z36-A7993 sample...

Only two Z36 in Halstatt (but one is a Bronze Age sample)... a mistery that U152 subclade... at this point, until some revolutionary Longobard results, R-Z36-A7993 and subclades weren't originally part of a Germanic-speaking group. Records and DNA discord...

I'd speculate that most Z36 in Northern Italy is of Bell Beaker, Polada, and other Bronze Age Alpine origins (plus Cisalpline Gauls). The association of Z36 with Lombardic surnames may be more just coincedence owing to the Alpine/Gaulish heritage in Lombardy, where some people may have been acculturated by Lombards later on. 

Though the Lombards themselves probably picked up some Central European Z36 in their migrations southwards.

No, my surname isn't Lombard (the connection between names and ethnicity isn't a good proxy in Italy, because many important feudal lords of sure longobard origins have biblical and roman names. On the contrary, sure feudal roman families had germanic names)... my genealogy in the paternal line from 1090 to the beginning of the XIV century followed the Longobard law claiming to be of the Longobard ethnic group and they were first vassals of the most important female Monastery of North Italy.

[Cascio]

A really important paper... but also very disappointing for me and other italians with sure genalogical records that show ancestors who claimed officially to be of the Longobard ethnic group and to follow the Longobard law... many of us are in the R-Z36-A7993 group... but probably we have to take into account a NPE in the centuries, because I can't see any R-Z36-A7993 sample...

Only two Z36 in Halstatt (but one is a Bronze Age sample)... a mistery that U152 subclade... at this point, until some revolutionary Longobard results, R-Z36-A7993 and subclades weren't originally part of a Germanic-speaking group. Records and DNA discord...

I'd speculate that most Z36 in Northern Italy is of Bell Beaker, Polada, and other Bronze Age Alpine origins (plus Cisalpline Gauls). The association of Z36 with Lombardic surnames may be more just coincedence owing to the Alpine/Gaulish heritage in Lombardy, where some people may have been acculturated by Lombards later on. 

Though the Lombards themselves probably picked up some Central European Z36 in their migrations southwards.

No, my surname isn't Lombard (the connection between names and ethnicity isn't a good proxy in Italy, because many important feudal lords of sure longobard origins have biblical and roman names. On the contrary, sure feudal roman families had germanic names)... my genealogy in the paternal line from 1090 to the beginning of the XIV century followed the Longobard law claiming to be of the Longobard ethnic group and they were first vassals of the most important female Monastery of North Italy.

Many North Italian and Tuscan rural nobles followed Longobard Law (the so-called LAMBARDI in Tuscany) but their ethnicity was mixed or even mainly non-Germanic while Roman Law (Code of Justinian) spread through the comuni (city states) of Northern Italy and Tuscany from the 12th century.

Lucca retained Longobard law later than other parts of Tuscany but Longobard Law v Roman Law was generally feudal, rural law v urban law, respectively.
In the Neapolitan Kingdom the Normans introduced Frankish Law.

[Jotunn]

There is one sample from this study coming from a "Princely Burial".

This is the burial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoby_treasure

CGG107481
10-60AD
YHG I1
mtdna I4a1

[Pylsteen]

From the supplements (S6.7.2)

The Bell Beaker sub-cluster (..) located primarily from the Eastern North Sea (ENS) region (present day the Netherlands) is unique in its high NWHG ancestry, low European Farmer, and inability to be modelled primarily as Bell Beaker ancestry, like most others from Bell Beaker sub-clusters (Figure S6.3.6). When using early representatives of this cluster as a source, we see a large degree of genetic  continuity from 3700 - 1700 BP. 
(...) 
A transition by at least 1612 BP is apparent, Frisian individuals are modelled primarily as Southern Scandinavian ancestries, but possessing small amounts of the local ENS ancestry.

An interesting cluster; probably Hilversum-culture related (or Elp?). Its continuity until West-Germanic migrations is remarkable.

[Zelto]

The late Neolithic migration from the East Baltic proposed by the authors cannot be associated with any archaeological movement previously posited as being Uralic (post- “continuation theory” paradigm). The earliest visible wave of materials from the Russian forest zone were Luganuse and Asva coarse grain ware: ~1200 BC in-land open settlements; ~9th century BC coastal Stone-cist graves and hillforts. N1a is notably missing from Stone-cist graves, so an associated movement of people is perhaps dubious. However, by ~600 BC, N1a had arrived with early-Tarand graves.

The situation is of course different in Finland, where Asbestos ceramics and Textile ware both may have arrived from the east in the early 2nd millennium BC. Although, the chronology and provenance of both phenomenon are nebulous.

For those interested, there are a few new N1a samples from this study:

CGG_2_106751 N-L550 from early Roman Iron Age Slusegård, Denmark. Most of the samples at this site show evidence of violence. The sample in question was found with an iron “point” embedded in his skull, but still possessed grave goods. Some individuals at the Slusegård site have excessive IBD sharing with East Baltic populations (this sample included).

CGG_2_24147 N-L550 from early Roman Iron Age Oland, Sweden. Isotopic analysis indicates that he was a local. There was evidence of perimortem SFT and BFT to his skull. IBD results are similar to other samples in the Central Swedish cluster.

Seven new samples from Lithuania; four of which are male.

CGG_0_17685 G-Z31461 Roman Iron Age Marvele (Flat burials of central Lithuania).
CGG_0_17690 N-L550 400-700 AD Berciunai (North Lithuanian Barrows Culture).
CGG_0_17691 N-L550 400-700 AD Kaireneliai (Central or North Lithuanian Barrows Culture?).
CGG_0_17685 N-L550 8th-9th century Maudžiorai (Samogatian with some Curonian influence).

Quite interesting that there were no R1a samples; especially considering the previously published samples from Lithuania.

Seven samples from the Mazunino culture, five are male.

CGG_0_211459 N-L1026 Roman Iron Age Boyaski
CGG_0_211460 N-L1026 Roman Iron Age Boyaski
CGG_0_211461 N-Z1936 Roman Iron Age Boyaski
CGG_0_211462 N-Z1936 Roman Iron Age Dubrovsky
CGG_0_211464 R1a-Z2124 Roman Iron Age Dubrovsky

The Mazunino culture is derived from the Pyanobor culture and was probably at least partly Uralic speaking (usually associated with Udmurt).

[Chad]

Does anyone have all the genotype data?

[Mitchell-Atkins]

U152>L2 samples

CGG022418 Aisne_Haut_de_France 480-450 BC IronAge LaTene
CGG022430 Aisne_Haut_de_France 514-397 BC IronAge LaTene
CGG107756 Province South-Holland 42 BC to 106 AD IronAge Roman

Hopefully someone is able to drill down further.

[Anglesqueville]

I can't find any reference to publishing the data anywhere, neither in the main text nor in the additional information. Did I miss something?