some G25_K12b Network of large pedigrees reveals social practices of Avar communities

[RCO]

Only two Y-chromosome lineages, J1a-Z2317 and J2b-CTS11760 (J1a and J2b hereafter), are found in pedigrees 1–8 and 12 in RK, compared with around 50 different mtDNA haplogroups

First, ten smaller pedigrees are found in the early Avar period, but only three connected ones dominate in the middle and late phases (Fig. 2). Strikingly, the J1a male lineage is mostly found in the early pedigrees, whereas the J2b haplogroup appears and becomes the predominant male lineage in the later ones (pedigrees 3, 4 and 5 all carry haplogroup J2b). We can clearly pinpoint when this shift occurs: going from pedigree 2 to pedigree 3, through the connection between the two maternal half-brothers, with one from pedigree 2 carrying J1a and one from pedigree 3 carrying J2b. In fact, pedigree 2 is the only one spanning from the early to the late phase, continuing the only two remaining J1a descent lineages after this shift. The haplotype IBD network in RK shows an even clearer pattern, indicating the community shift, because all of the different J1a-carrying pedigrees and the J2b pedigrees 3, 4 and 5 share more IBDs within them than between them, forming two clearly distinct clusters separating J1a and J2b male individuals

They were in movement.

[Pribislav]

RKF243; Rákóczifalva, Hungary; J2a1a1a2- M67>Z1847>Z7671>CTS900>Z7661>Y3020>Y11200>Z30677>Z30682>Y17946>Y150765>FT28484>FGC62187>Y18397 (xY23162,Y414202,Y158484)

RKF268; 247-330 AD; Rákóczifalva, Hungary; J2a1a2b2-Z6064>Z6055>Z6057>Y7013>Y7010>Y13128>Z36834>FT11871

RKF273; Rákóczifalva, Hungary; J2a1a2b2-Z6064>Z6055>Z6057>Y7013>Y7010>Y13128>Z36834>FT11871

RKO019; Rákóczifalva, Hungary; J2a1a1a2-L25>PF4888>PF5366>PF5383>PF5402>PF5381>PF5373>FTA10541 (xY240543)

[Dewsloth]

RKF243; Rákóczifalva, Hungary; J2a1a1a2- M67>Z1847>Z7671>CTS900>Z7661>Y3020>Y11200>Z30677>Z30682>Y17946>Y150765>FT28484>FGC62187>Y18397 (xY23162,Y414202,Y158484)

RKF268; 247-330 AD; Rákóczifalva, Hungary; J2a1a2b2-Z6064>Z6055>Z6057>Y7013>Y7010>Y13128>Z36834>FT11871

RKF273; Rákóczifalva, Hungary; J2a1a2b2-Z6064>Z6055>Z6057>Y7013>Y7010>Y13128>Z36834>FT11871

RKO019; Rákóczifalva, Hungary; J2a1a1a2-L25>PF4888>PF5366>PF5383>PF5402>PF5381>PF5373>FTA10541 (xY240543)

Any luck with RKF263?  Could you look at him when/if you have time please?

I saw on TheYtree they had the sample as R-Y6237 (Z17112) before I could find it anywhere else, but then in the "Network of large pedigrees reveals social practices of Avar communities" Supplement spreadsheet, they only have it as R1b1a1b1a1a2e1 (DF88).
I would be extremely grateful if you can shed light on this and either corroborate one call or even find anything below Z17112.

See:
https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-Y6237
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07312-4#Abs1

[Pribislav]

Any luck with RKF263?  Could you look at him when/if you have time please?

I saw on TheYtree they had the sample as R-Y6237 (Z17112) before I could find it anywhere else, but then in the "Network of large pedigrees reveals social practices of Avar communities" Supplement spreadsheet, they only have it as R1b1a1b1a1a2e1 (DF88).
I would be extremely grateful if you can shed light on this and either corroborate one call or even find anything below Z17112.

See:
https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-Y6237
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07312-4#Abs1

RKF263 is R1b-DF19>DF88>Y3097>Y3096>Y6234>S4268>Y6237

DF88 level: DF88/S4298+  G>A (1A)

Y6234 level: S4281+  C>T (1T)

Y6237 level: Y6237/Z17112+  G>A (2A)

I didn't have time to check all the downstream clades from FTDNA Block Tree, but I'll do it in the next few days.

[Dewsloth]

Any luck with RKF263?  Could you look at him when/if you have time please?

I saw on TheYtree they had the sample as R-Y6237 (Z17112) before I could find it anywhere else, but then in the "Network of large pedigrees reveals social practices of Avar communities" Supplement spreadsheet, they only have it as R1b1a1b1a1a2e1 (DF88).
I would be extremely grateful if you can shed light on this and either corroborate one call or even find anything below Z17112.

See:
https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-Y6237
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07312-4#Abs1

RKF263 is R1b-DF19>DF88>Y3097>Y3096>Y6234>S4268>Y6237

DF88 level: DF88/S4298+  G>A (1A)

Y6234 level: S4281+  C>T (1T)

Y6237 level: Y6237/Z17112+  G>A (2A)

I didn't have time to check all the downstream clades from FTDNA Block Tree, but I'll do it in the next few days.

Outstanding.  Thank you, again.  

Mr. Z17112 was one of the more important and genetically successful DF19s.  About half the kits at FTDNA are Z17112+ and most of the post-BA ancients are Z17112+

He is the ancestor of at least 8 descendant lineages known as R-Z27257, R-S17075, R-PH3649, R-Z21380, R-FT354149, R-FTA73126, R-BY107827 and 1 yet unnamed lineage.

There aren't any modern Z17112 kits from Hungary at all, and the only neighbor country to Hungary with one is Austria.
The same subclade, Z17112>FT354149, also has 2 kits in Poland:
Germany 87 60.00%
United States 21 14.48%
England  9 6.21%
Scotland  5 3.45%
Sweden  4 2.76%
Denmark  3 2.07%
United Kingdom 2 1.38%
Belgium  2 1.38%
Poland  2 1.38%
Ireland 2 1.38%
Wales 2 1.38%
Switzerland 1 0.69%
Spain 1 0.69%
Norway  1 0.69%
Russian Federation 1 0.69%
Austria  1 0.69%
France  1 0.69%

^^The Spanish one is the only Spanish DF19 kit (out of 1,795 BigY DF19 kits), and his two closest matches are TMRCA from ~300 CE, from Poland and Germany.  
Perhaps a Vandal or Gothic migration arc?

[Riverman]

From FTDNA at Facebook:

We will update you when the samples from the study have been added to Discover.

Let's hope they get good reads from those samples and can go more downstream for many.

[Dewsloth]

From FTDNA at Facebook:

We will update you when the samples from the study have been added to Discover.

Let's hope they get good reads from those samples and can go more downstream for many.

They usually update their ancients on Thursdays, but I don't see any new ones yet today.  Maybe next week?

[Riverman]

From FTDNA at Facebook:

We will update you when the samples from the study have been added to Discover.

Let's hope they get good reads from those samples and can go more downstream for many.

They usually update their ancients on Thursdays, but I don't see any new ones yet today.  Maybe next week?

I think they just wanted to announce it, its possible they need longer than that actually.