Stolarek et al: Genetic history of East-Central Europe...

[Radko]

So Poles are shifted towards the East Germanic Wielbark culture when compared to these unmixed Slavic Avars (the green dots)?

Modern Poles are shifted mostly towards later Germans (see Ostsiedlung). But Scandinavian (most likely from Medieval Scandinavian Vikings) admixture in some modern Polish samples is also visible.

[BowFX]

BowFX

Baltic BA is a Baltic countries Bronze Age population that is often used as a proxy for Eastern European/Balto-Slavic admixture. The so-called by McColl, the "Eastern Scandinavians" have no admixture of Baltic BA, only Latvia HG, i.e. Neolithic Baltic.

So Latvia HG is an ANF-like pop with a hunter-gatherer lifestyle?

[ph2ter]

Poland-Balkan PCA with new Avar_o samples:

[Gordius]

BowFX

Baltic BA is a Baltic countries Bronze Age population that is often used as a proxy for Eastern European/Balto-Slavic admixture. The so-called by McColl, the "Eastern Scandinavians" have no admixture of Baltic BA, only Latvia HG, i.e. Neolithic Baltic.

So Latvia HG is an ANF-like pop with a hunter-gatherer lifestyle?

No, they are pure HGs.

[ph2ter]

These Avar_o that plot in Slavic_IA and Polish Medieval cluster are not Balts. They are Slavs.
It is ridiculous to think that there were any Balts in Avaria.

[BowFX]

BowFX

Baltic BA is a Baltic countries Bronze Age population that is often used as a proxy for Eastern European/Balto-Slavic admixture. The so-called by McColl, the "Eastern Scandinavians" have no admixture of Baltic BA, only Latvia HG, i.e. Neolithic Baltic.

So Latvia HG is an ANF-like pop with a hunter-gatherer lifestyle?

No, they are pure HGs.

Do people with Balto-Slavic admix have Latvian HG too, then?

[Gordius]

So Latvia HG is an ANF-like pop with a hunter-gatherer lifestyle?

No, they are pure HGs.

Do people with Balto-Slavic admix have Latvian HG too, then?

Not necessarily. I think, and I have already written more than once, that the Balto-Slavic drift is a separate genetic cluster of hunters.

[BowFX]

No, they are pure HGs.

Do people with Balto-Slavic admix have Latvian HG too, then?

Not necessarily. I think, and I have already written more than once, that the Balto-Slavic drift is a separate genetic cluster of hunters.

Huh, so it's possible Baltics arrived in the Baltic later on?

[BowFX]

No, they are pure HGs.

Do people with Balto-Slavic admix have Latvian HG too, then?

Not necessarily. I think, and I have already written more than once, that the Balto-Slavic drift is a separate genetic cluster of hunters.

By the way I meant whether people with Balto-Slavic admix have Latvian HG in addition to Balto-Slavic drift. So part Latvian HG and part BS-drift HG.

[Dewsloth]

These Avar_o that plot in Slavic_IA and Polish Medieval cluster are not Balts. They are Slavs.
It is ridiculous to think that there were any Balts in Avaria.

When you have time can you please map RKF263?  He's reported as a DF19>>Z17112, but seems very integrated into the local Hungarian scene ;-)

Avars_o:RKF263.A0101.TF1,0.122929,0.128972,0.021496,-0.009367,0.023389,-0.001394,0,0.005307,-0.001636,0.014214,-0.002598,0.004796,-0.009366,-0.006881,0.000814,-0.003713,0.005737,-0.00228,0.008422,-0.001751,-0.015597,0.005935,0.006902,0.008555,0.002395

[Mik]

Maybe we should look at the bigger picture. Yes, there are 3 Baltic-like outliers but there are also 20+ samples that fall within or near the modern Croat-Bosnian-Serb continuum and dozens more that resemble the pre-migration Pannonian autosomal landscape (I added the 9th century Nustar samples as example). So, assumed that the Slavic population penetrated the Balkans after the early Avar period, I doubt that there were many pure Baltic-like migrants left.

[ambron]

BowFX

More information on the topic you are interested in can be found in this thread:

https://genarchivist.com/showthread.php?tid=107

[ambron]

Radko

There is no point in comparing Avar outliers with modern European populations, because today there are no Avars.

There is no point in comparing the Avar outliers with the Polish population of the Roman period, because there were no Avars in Poland during the Roman period.

The only thing that makes sense is to compare Avar outliers with medieval Poles, because Avars were in medieval Poland.

[ambron]

Mik

As we know from historical records, the Avars were confederated with the Slavs. It is usually assumed that the Slavs who came to Pannonia with the Avars came from Slavic homeland. Therefore, by examining outlier Avar genomes, we are trying to determine where the Slavic homeland was.

[Gordius]

Do people with Balto-Slavic admix have Latvian HG too, then?

Not necessarily. I think, and I have already written more than once, that the Balto-Slavic drift is a separate genetic cluster of hunters.

By the way I meant whether people with Balto-Slavic admix have Latvian HG in addition to Balto-Slavic drift. So part Latvian HG and part BS-drift HG.

From what I saw on the plot, it is unlikely that there was an admixture of Baltic HGs, and if there was, then at most a few percent.