Stolarek et al: Genetic history of East-Central Europe...

[FR9CZ6]

Unfortunately, I can't reveal any details.

And do you have any guess when the study is expected to be published?

[Radko]

Unfortunately, I can't reveal any details.

And do you have any guess when the study is expected to be published?

Yes...In 2 years time.

[Awood]

It is worth saying that anthropology can give a lot of information, but if it is used correctly. That is, for example, to evaluate by the methods of multivariate statistics according to such parameters (according to Martin), such as: longitudinal and transverse diameters of the skull, height of the skull, width of the forehead, average width of the face, zygomatic diameter and upper height of the face, height and width of the nose, height and width orbits, nose protrusion angle, nasomalar and zygomaxillary angles, symotic index - then, under the conditions of a large number of samples, it is possible to create some general idea. For the sake of fairness, it should be noted that the Germanic series are anthropologically more homogeneous than the Slavic and Baltic ones. The main parameter by which the Germans differ (on average) from the Balts and Slavs is the height of the skull, in the Germans it is low, in the Balts and Slavs it is of medium height or high.

That's a bit too general, what I noticed as a child is that modern Germans mostly have higher foreheads than modern Poles and that some East Germans look very Slavic, which is no coincidence (input in the Middle Ages..)

I was going to say Germans have fairly high foreheads. Pretty sure the so-called "Celtic" people have the highest ones, in particular those from the British Isles or from people who trace back to that area. So high that in some cases I have seen the length of the forehead exceeds the rest of their face, making it seems the facial features are squished at the bottom of their face.

[Gordius]

Also, I've seen some preliminary auDNA results of 2000-3000 years old samples from Poland and they are quite different than Early Medieval Slavs.

Are they similar to this one?:

Germany_EarlyMedieval_o1.SG:STR300b_noUDG.SG,0.130897,0.161469,-0.006034,-0.053618,0.019388,-0.011435,0.00893,0.013153,0.002659,0.026424,-0.000162,0.001499,-0.011298,-0.004954,-0.029723,-0.00358,0.00678,-0.00114,-0.001257,-0.015758,-0.00861,0.014096,0.00986,0.003735,-0.006586

[Alain]

It is worth saying that anthropology can give a lot of information, but if it is used correctly. That is, for example, to evaluate by the methods of multivariate statistics according to such parameters (according to Martin), such as: longitudinal and transverse diameters of the skull, height of the skull, width of the forehead, average width of the face, zygomatic diameter and upper height of the face, height and width of the nose, height and width orbits, nose protrusion angle, nasomalar and zygomaxillary angles, symotic index - then, under the conditions of a large number of samples, it is possible to create some general idea. For the sake of fairness, it should be noted that the Germanic series are anthropologically more homogeneous than the Slavic and Baltic ones. The main parameter by which the Germans differ (on average) from the Balts and Slavs is the height of the skull, in the Germans it is low, in the Balts and Slavs it is of medium height or high.

That's a bit too general, what I noticed as a child is that modern Germans mostly have higher foreheads than modern Poles and that some East Germans look very Slavic, which is no coincidence (input in the Middle Ages..)

I was going to say Germans have fairly high foreheads. Pretty sure the so-called "Celtic" people have the highest ones, in particular those from the British Isles or from people who trace back to that area. So high that in some cases I have seen the length of the forehead exceeds the rest of their face, making it seems the facial features are squished at the bottom of their face.

This could also be due to the Celtic, but you have to keep in mind that the “Celts” were partly different according to area from a genetic/anthropological point of view due to the mixing of local population groups Boii, Iberocelts, Eastern Celts, Galatians… if I were to describe myself, I would also have a high one Forehead but also slight cheekbones but you can't always generalize about that, but I hope there are more genetic results from the Bronze and Iron Ages from what is now Poland, especially the Lusatian, Trzciniec, Pomeranian, Wielbark culture...

[ambron]

Of course, as Bolek recalled, this is about researching biomolecular DNA markers, not only metric and non-metric morphological features of skeletons.

The Łódź team has very good global rankings in terms of archaeological DNA testing, which can be seen in these publications:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33067-w

https://elifesciences.org/articles/79714

[Radko]

From Paulina Borowka's (Lodz team) paper:
"In the immediate vicinity of the Polish population, we can observe individuals identified as Ukraine_Viking (VK539 and VK540), originating from the Shestovitsa site (on the Desna River, a tributary of the Dnieper) in Ukraine (...) Based on the analysis carried out in this work, both of these individuals can be classified as the Slavic population clearly genetically refer to the "autochthonous" population represented by Polish individuals."

It seems that Lodz team can't separate clearly non-Slavic Scandinavian Vikings from the Slavs.

-------------------------------

Y-DNA: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y7928/

G25 results...

Distance to: UKR_Shestovitsa_VA:VK539
0.02344102 Swedish:GSM1884863
0.02596772 Swedish:GSM1884782
0.02709387 Swedish:Sweden15
0.02882424 Finnish_Southwest:HG00277
0.02961483 Swedish:GSM1884752
0.03005510 Swedish:Sweden8
0.03013257 Finnish_Southwest
0.03043960 Finnish_Southwest:HG00190
0.03051927 Swedish:GSM1884922
0.03066353 Swedish:GSM1884818
0.03071337 Swedish:GSM1884917
0.03135672 Swedish:GSM1884765
0.03144135 Swedish:GSM1884858
0.03237775 Swedish:Sweden3
0.03258541 Swedish:Sweden22
0.03333797 Finnish_Southwest:HG00337
0.03355565 Swedish:GSM1884775
0.03359966 Norwegian:GSM1550614
0.03375948 Swedish:GSM1884776
0.03385379 Finnish_Southwest:HG00310
0.03396000 Swedish:GSM1884861
0.03398625 Swedish
0.03398873 Swedish:Sweden19
0.03402991 Swedish:GSM1884785
0.03417348 Swedish:GSM1884877

Distance to: UKR_Shestovitsa_VA:VK540
0.02576870 Swedish:GSM1884775
0.02662797 Swedish:Sweden3
0.02819347 Swedish:GSM1884788
0.02828131 Swedish:GSM1884863
0.02909173 Swedish
0.02951309 Swedish:Sweden22
0.02955885 Swedish:GSM1884825
0.02976035 Swedish:GSM1884858
0.02984964 Swedish:GSM1884765
0.03001671 Swedish:GSM1884782
0.03031443 Swedish:Sweden6
0.03068384 Swedish:Sweden15
0.03096432 Swedish:GSM1884927
0.03126697 Danish:456
0.03176004 Swedish:GSM1884922
0.03183252 Swedish:GSM1884752
0.03209908 Swedish:GSM1884845
0.03216466 Danish:463
0.03217414 Swedish:Sweden8
0.03221775 Swedish:GSM1884917
0.03235347 Swedish:GSM1884785
0.03265916 Swedish:Sweden19
0.03278660 Swedish:GSM1884850
0.03284120 Swedish:GSM1884869
0.03304697 Swedish:GSM1884888

Margaryan et al. ancestry analysis...

VK539
Swedish-like - 34.8%
Finnish-like - 33.3%
Norwegian-like - 29.9%
Polish-like - 0.9%
Danish-like - 0.6%
British-like - 0.3%
Southern European-like - 0.2%

VK540
Norwegian-like - 41%
Swedish-like - 25.3%
Finnish-like - 16.7%
Polish-like - 14%
Danish-like - 2.3%
Southern European-like - 0.6%
British-like - 0.1%

[ambron]

Radko

Borówka:

"In the immediate vicinity of the Polish population, we can observe individuals identified as Ukraine_Viking (VK539 M and VK540 K), originating from the Shestovitsa site (on the Desna River, a tributary of the Dnieper) in Ukraine. This population, according to some authors, is a mixed population of people of Viking origin and local, Slavic. Researchers indicate its distant genetic similarity to the synchronous Swedish and British population (source: supplementary materials in Margaryan et al. 2020). According to the results of the IBS-UMAP analysis, the mentioned individuals are located between the Polish group of indigenous populations and the Vikings from Sweden (Sweden_Viking). This observation is also confirmed by Euclidean distances, indicating the closest Sweden_Viking population (x̅=1.15, Me=0.48)."

[Tomenable]

What do you think about my models in this thread (and are you able to come up with better models)?:

https://genarchivist.com/showthread.php?tid=594

[Tomenable]

Another autosomally Slavic sample among Avars, RKF106:

Eurogenes K36 results:

Sample RKF106
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 1.3
Central African 0.05
Central Euro 10.2
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 10.02
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 25.04
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 19.72
Fennoscandian 14.61
French 2.1
Iberian 0.12
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 0
North Atlantic 7.48
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 8.54
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0.82
West African 0
West Caucasian 0
West Med 0

Distances based on K36:

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Russia_RUS_Smolensk
0.6505029
Europe_PL_Podlaskie
0.6643756
Europe_BY_Minsk
0.6690262
Europe_BY_Brest-Region
0.7061657
Europe_UA_Chernihiv-Oblast
0.7083770
Russia_RUS_Voronezh
0.7127707
Europe_UA_Sumy-Oblast
0.7214998
Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
0.7518397
Russia_RUS_Oryol
0.7647594
Europe_BY_Grodno
0.7671538
Europe_BY_Polesye
0.7887433
Russia_RUS_Moscow
0.7949126
(...)

And Mixed Mode:

[1] "distance%=5.1359"

RKF106

Russia_RUS_Oryol,23.8
Russia_RUS_Volgograd,23.7
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie,19.1
Europe_PL_Suwalki,17.2
Europe_LT_Lithuania-Utena,6
Europe_UA_Chernihiv-Oblast,3.7
Europe_PL_Mazowieckie,3.4
Europe_BY_Brest-Region,0.9
Europe_LV_Latvia-Karsava,0.7
Europe_PL_Podlaskie,0.5
Europe_UA_Luhansk-Oblast,0.5
Europe_LT_Lithuania-Alytus,0.2
Europe_BY_Minsk,0.1
Europe_PL_Podkarpackie,0.1
Russia_RUS_Smolensk,0.1

[Radko]

RKF106
Y-DNA: R-PF6155 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-PF6155)
mtDNA: T

Would be interesting to know his archaeological context (grave goods if any?) and C14 dating.

[alexfritz]

RKF106
Y-DNA: R-PF6155 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-PF6155)
mtDNA: T

Would be interesting to know his archaeological context (grave goods if any?) and C14 dating.

who knows if PF6155 is even correct as such
the same tree has kro002 (kronan ship) likewise as PF6155 and gr.558 (cedynia) as M458 when infact they are known further downstream at L1029+ and CTS11962+ resptc

want say that RKF106 might aswell be actually further downstream of M458

[Orentil]

Ancient DNA connects large-scale migration with the spread of Slavic-associated culture

Today, speakers of Slavic languages comprise around one-third of the European population and inhabit nearly a half of the European continent. Yet, there is no consensus among historians and archaeologists how this present-day distribution is connected to the spread of Slavic-associated material culture in the fifth to sixth centuries over major parts of Eastern and Central Europe, as the evidence from the written and archaeological record is characterised by both continent-wide similarities as well as region-specific trajectories. Consequently, the question of to what extent this cultural and linguistic transformation also affected the genetic composition of the continent has been a subject of enduring debate. Here we present an extensive dataset of genome-wide ancient DNA data from several sites in Central Europe, dating between 400 and 1200 CE and spanning the relevant phase of cultural and linguistic transition. We demonstrate that the arrival of Slavic-associated material culture in the studied regions is associated with a substantial influx of genetic ancestry from a region in present-day northern Ukraine and Belarus. Comparing archaeological and genetic evidence, we find that this change in ancestry coincided with a change in social organization, characterised by an intensification of inter- and intrasite genetic relatedness and strong signals of patrilocality and -lineality.

Joscha Gretzinger
Hellen Mager
Ralf Schwarz
Arnold Muhl
Jörg Orschiedt
Felix Biermann
Mario Slaus
Harald Meller
Zuzana Hofmanová
Johannes Krause

You can post link please ?

https://submissions.e-a-a.org/eaa2024/re...tract=2928

I'm still pondering what cemeteries from Sachsen-Anhalt could have been analyzed for this study. If they studied as a benchmark also Thuringian empire cemeteries the best candidates would be Reideburg (5th/6th century), Großörner (5th century), Brücken (6th century) and Kleinjena (7th/8th century), all of them have a connection to Harald Meller. For Slavic cemeteries it is a bit more vague, a good candidate could be Oechlitz (9th/10th century) or Niederwünsch (11th/12th century) - but I can be totally wrong.

https://archlsa.de/bodendenkmalpflege/fu...-2010.html

Another good candidate would be in Brandenburg, just discovered last year (10th/11th century), for this cementery they mentioned that they plan to conduct genetic studies

https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/20...Donnerstag.

[Capsian20]

Target: RKF106
Distance: 6.6032% / 0.06603235
56.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
25.8 TUR_Barcin_N
17.4 WHG

Distance to: RKF106
0.03352465 Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600039
0.03399263 Polisholish40
0.03428350 German_Hamburg:GSM1031514
0.03461824 Polish_Kashubian:Kashubian4
0.03500675 Lithuanian_VA:LTG-439
0.03574055 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-156
0.03620985 Polisholish35
0.03640484 Belarusian:Belarusian13
0.03652206 Lithuanian_VA:LTG-471
0.03670641 Lithuanian_PZ:LTG-1034
0.03672518 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-1366
0.03707547 Polisholish15
0.03708551 Polisholish36
0.03764379 Estonian:Est393
0.03769332 Estonian:Est358
0.03783546 Russian_Voronez:RussianVoron105
0.03789360 Belarusian:Belarusian5
0.03806795 Lithuanian_RA:LTG-21
0.03808651 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-1352
0.03820593 Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600040
0.03826118 Estonian:Est400
0.03836434 Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600017
0.03838967 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-778
0.03850164 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-788
0.03867934 Russian_Smolensk:RUS_Smol303

[Capsian20]

Another autosomally Slavic sample among Avars, RKF106:
Eurogenes K36 results:
Sample RKF106
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 1.3
Central African 0.05
Central Euro 10.2
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 10.02
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 25.04
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 19.72
Fennoscandian 14.61
French 2.1
Iberian 0.12
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 0
North Atlantic 7.48
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 8.54
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0.82
West African 0
West Caucasian 0
West Med 0
Distances based on K36:
[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
                      Russia_RUS_Smolensk
                                0.6505029
                      Europe_PL_Podlaskie
                                0.6643756
                          Europe_BY_Minsk
                                0.6690262
                    Europe_BY_Brest-Region
                                0.7061657
                Europe_UA_Chernihiv-Oblast
                                0.7083770
                      Russia_RUS_Voronezh
                                0.7127707
                    Europe_UA_Sumy-Oblast
                                0.7214998
                      Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
                                0.7518397
                          Russia_RUS_Oryol
                                0.7647594
                          Europe_BY_Grodno
                                0.7671538
                        Europe_BY_Polesye
                                0.7887433
                        Russia_RUS_Moscow
                                0.7949126
(...)
And Mixed Mode:
[1] "distance%=5.1359"
        RKF106
Russia_RUS_Oryol,23.8
Russia_RUS_Volgograd,23.7
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie,19.1
Europe_PL_Suwalki,17.2
Europe_LT_Lithuania-Utena,6
Europe_UA_Chernihiv-Oblast,3.7
Europe_PL_Mazowieckie,3.4
Europe_BY_Brest-Region,0.9
Europe_LV_Latvia-Karsava,0.7
Europe_PL_Podlaskie,0.5
Europe_UA_Luhansk-Oblast,0.5
Europe_LT_Lithuania-Alytus,0.2
Europe_BY_Minsk,0.1
Europe_PL_Podkarpackie,0.1
Russia_RUS_Smolensk,0.1

About sample KFJ019 although belong a Hg Slavic (R-Z282) but his autosomal admixture Central Asian