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Tomenable · (This post was last modified: 03-31-2024, 02:38 PM by AimSmall.)

I have come up with such models for Medieval Polish and modern Polish ancestry, what do you think about them?:

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

1. Modelling Early Medieval Poles as a mixture of Proto-Slavs and Iron Age Poland populations:

Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 2.4309% / 0.02430865
76.4 Proto_Slavic(n=3)
12.8 Przeworsk_PCA0012
10.8 Wielbark(n=51)

2. Modelling modern Poles as a mixture of Early Medieval Poles and "Ostsiedlung" populations:

Target: Polish
Distance: 0.9265% / 0.00926540
81.2 Polish_Medieval(n=62)
18.8 Dutch
0.0 Danish

Target: Polish_Kashubian
Distance: 1.4526% / 0.01452600
76.0 Polish_Medieval(n=62)
24.0 Danish
0.0 Dutch

^^^
In this model Kashubs pick up a northern-shifted Germanic population, while Poles pick up a more southern group.

=====

I used this tool to create averages:

https://dna-tools.xyz/calculate

Which ancient samples were used?

I used an average of the following 3 samples as my Proto-Slavic reference:

Code:
Proto_Slavic(n=3),0.128241,0.119494,0.081332,0.079889,0.037648,0.030771,0.010575,0.010615,-0.008522,-0.031223,-0.002923,-0.01134,0.013181,0.016148,-0.013391,0.012066,0.017993,-0.000971,-0.002891,0.008838,-0.00104,-0.00812,0.006614,-0.012692,0.001557

Code:
R9673,0.133173,0.127957,0.088246,0.074613,0.043085,0.030399,0.010575,0.013153,-0.00634,-0.026789,-0.004384,-0.009741,0.015312,0.014588,-0.013301,0.0179,0.025295,-0.00266,-0.002891,0.006253,-0.001123,-0.006677,0.003204,-0.004217,0.002275

I10943,0.126344,0.118817,0.07731,0.082042,0.035083,0.029562,0.005405,0.011999,-0.015339,-0.043919,-0.000812,-0.012289,0.016353,0.015276,-0.012215,0.014452,0.025816,-0.005701,-0.009679,0.008004,-0.001248,-0.00643,0.008504,-0.016147,-0.000958

I10949,0.125205,0.111708,0.078441,0.083011,0.034776,0.032351,0.015746,0.006692,-0.003886,-0.022962,-0.003573,-0.011989,0.007879,0.018579,-0.014658,0.003845,0.002868,0.005448,0.003897,0.012256,-0.000749,-0.011252,0.008134,-0.017713,0.003353

I used the following 51 samples as my Wielbark average:

Code:
Wielbark(n=51),0.127772,0.129649,0.070529,0.061053,0.042379,0.022011,0.006686,0.008452,0.002001,-0.006393,-0.004298,0.002477,-0.005151,-0.004121,0.015746,0.007175,-0.004262,0.00235,0.00468,0.005463,0.007497,0.003348,-0.000394,0.011043,-0.001395

Code:
Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0001,0.119514,0.131003,0.062225,0.056848,0.043393,0.028447,0.006815,0.009461,0.001432,0.003645,-0.001299,0.002548,-0.000892,0.010046,0.017644,0.000398,-0.031292,0.012542,-0.009679,-0.011631,0.00836,0.011623,-0.016269,0.006507,-0.000479

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko_o:PCA0002,0.122929,0.126941,0.07731,0.055233,0.041546,0.017012,0.00517,0.001615,-0.009408,-0.010752,-0.002598,-0.005695,0.021407,0.037296,-0.007193,-0.008618,-0.01356,0.00266,-0.005279,-0.016008,-0.006364,-0.010881,0.001725,-0.014942,0.008622

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0007,0.124067,0.140143,0.078064,0.07106,0.051702,0.031794,0.00329,0.01823,0.00225,0.002916,0.010068,-0.001798,-0.009366,-0.006606,0.018051,0.007425,-0.035204,-0.011275,0.004022,0.01038,-0.000499,0.020155,0.009244,0.013496,-0.002874

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0015,0.126344,0.144205,0.075801,0.054587,0.049855,0.006136,0.010105,0.012923,0.004909,0.01221,0.005359,0.005245,-0.012487,-0.012661,0.011129,-0.015248,-0.036508,0.009375,0.028408,0.004752,0.013227,0.02065,-0.003821,0.007953,-0.002036

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0018,0.129758,0.120848,0.069013,0.074613,0.048317,0.002789,0.014806,0.023307,0.002659,-0.01221,-0.003248,0.005095,-0.004311,-0.020231,0.023208,0.011005,0.02047,-0.002407,0.006913,0.012631,0.012603,0.00272,0.009983,0.014942,-0.005029

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0026,0.133173,0.125926,0.071653,0.056848,0.052317,0.011992,0.00752,0.000923,-0.002454,-0.008383,0.002273,-0.009292,-0.010258,-0.001101,0.027144,-0.016441,-0.030379,-0.00038,0.005405,0.002126,0.007612,-0.002102,-0.008874,0.019762,0.004071

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0027,0.134311,0.120848,0.070899,0.065246,0.054472,0.029841,0.013631,0.010615,0.009817,-0.004738,-0.011042,3e-04,-0.002379,0.004679,0.010179,0.011403,-0.001956,0.017863,-0.003268,0.003377,0.004367,-0.000618,0.00037,0.006627,-0.007544

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0028,0.124067,0.128972,0.082212,0.069445,0.04647,0.012271,0.004465,0.007615,0.003681,-0.002734,-0.006333,0.000599,-0.006541,0.001101,0.021172,0.009546,-0.00352,0.000253,0.005154,0.011881,0.009982,0.006925,0.007888,0.012411,0.005269

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0030,0.132035,0.129988,0.065619,0.065246,0.04647,0.012829,0.010575,0.006923,-0.001227,-0.008018,-0.010068,0.001649,-0.016055,-0.007569,0.018051,0.010872,-0.01682,0.015076,0.004525,0.004002,0.009982,0.013973,0.007518,0.021931,0.000239

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0031,0.113823,0.127957,0.064488,0.052972,0.048932,0.016455,-0.00141,0.02123,0.002454,-0.014579,-0.010393,-0.008243,-0.000297,-0.013212,0.012893,0.017237,0.020079,0.011782,-0.008547,0.007128,0.010482,-0.007914,-0.003574,0.006868,0.003592

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0034,0.124067,0.11577,0.063733,0.052326,0.042777,0.006414,-0.009165,0.006231,0.003068,0.001093,-0.008931,-0.003597,-0.005946,-0.007844,0.012622,0.016574,0.031292,0.003927,-0.005782,0.007879,0.001622,-0.015333,-0.01898,0.022172,0.004071

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0036,0.127482,0.120848,0.072784,0.052326,0.044316,0.029005,0.017156,0.006,0.004909,-0.009476,-0.006171,0.01094,-0.022596,0.004404,0.030401,0.010342,-0.004433,0.016216,0.004651,0.006128,0.019216,-0.011747,0.000493,0.002771,-0.013172

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0040,0.137726,0.13405,0.066373,0.061693,0.022773,0.014781,0.001645,0.008307,-0.000818,-0.007836,-0.007957,0.004796,0.003419,-0.010322,0.016286,0.015115,-0.007432,-0.005321,0.010182,0.001876,0.007362,-0.004575,0.003944,0.016147,0.001197

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0044,0.143417,0.136081,0.07731,0.049742,0.027697,0.022032,0.003995,0.001615,-0.007363,-0.010023,-0.009581,-0.003297,-0.002973,-0.007569,0.015065,-0.00358,-0.022556,0.016976,0.021369,-0.003627,0.002995,0.002226,0.003081,0.02663,-0.001437

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0046,0.133173,0.123895,0.067505,0.062339,0.041238,0.029562,0.00846,0.011076,0.007363,-0.013303,-0.006008,0.001649,0.000446,-0.007432,0.016694,0.02148,0.009257,0.001014,0.00264,0.005878,0.004367,0.008656,-0.004437,0.013134,0.002395

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0049,0.125205,0.121864,0.058454,0.05814,0.035391,0.036256,-0.00564,0.011307,-0.01268,-0.010934,0.001137,-0.008243,-0.009217,0.010046,0.010722,-0.002387,-0.004694,0.015456,0.004651,0.015007,0.007986,0.01558,-0.013434,0.008435,0.00479

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0050,0.136588,0.119832,0.071653,0.062016,0.040931,0.028447,0.00705,0.016153,-0.010226,-0.014214,-0.007795,-0.003897,-0.006095,-0.000413,0.025923,0.013392,-0.00339,-0.009628,0.020992,5e-04,-0.001622,0.005564,-0.00949,0.002651,-0.002515

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0051,0.12862,0.136081,0.064488,0.080104,0.055703,0.03012,0.011986,0.001154,-0.002659,-0.003462,-0.013153,-0.001649,-0.003568,-0.003991,0.015879,0.023468,0.011865,-0.003294,-0.004525,0.012006,-0.000624,-0.009521,-0.011585,0.026992,0.000479

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0052,0.125205,0.14319,0.069013,0.05814,0.045239,0.020638,-0.002585,0.013384,-0.002454,-0.014032,-0.001624,0.003297,0.002676,0.000275,-0.008686,0.005304,-0.010431,0.003421,0.010056,0.006003,0.006988,0.000495,-0.01023,0.023377,0.006586

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0056,0.132035,0.132019,0.072784,0.082688,0.042469,0.020359,0.011281,0.002077,0.005318,-0.005832,0.00065,0.007343,-0.007136,-0.004266,0.017372,-0.002254,-0.008084,0.001394,0.012444,0.008129,0.012977,-0.000247,0.00419,0.018798,-0.016406

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0059,0.119514,0.137096,0.071653,0.05814,0.044008,0.018128,0.001645,0.006,0.011658,-0.014943,0.00065,0.004196,-0.006987,-0.003578,0.011129,0.017502,0.019949,0.002407,0.002891,0.016883,0.005116,0.006925,0.000493,0.019762,-0.002634

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0060,0.127482,0.127957,0.076555,0.061047,0.041854,0.029284,0.00752,0.010153,-0.000614,-0.008201,-0.008282,0.001199,0.000297,-0.012524,0.005836,0.018563,0.019036,-0.002534,0.00729,0.005127,0.013102,0.002968,0.010476,0.013857,0.001317

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0062,0.125205,0.120848,0.069767,0.05491,0.035391,0.023985,0.00611,0.012923,-0.006749,-0.002551,-0.003897,0.007493,-0.006392,-0.008257,0.006515,0.00411,-0.010822,0.009502,0.011439,-0.004127,0.004492,0.00779,-0.000986,0.016026,-0.007185

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0063,0.132035,0.142174,0.072784,0.062662,0.049855,0.021475,0.00799,0.00923,-0.003681,-0.007107,-0.01023,-0.002847,-0.012933,-0.000963,0.009908,0.015115,-0.007041,-0.003041,0.001257,0.008379,0.000374,0.00643,0.000493,0.003133,0.004071

Wielbark_culture_Kowalewko:PCA0065,0.106994,0.135065,0.064111,0.066861,0.034468,0.028726,0.003055,0.007846,0.004295,-0.006743,0.005684,-0.013638,0.001784,0.010184,0.029587,-0.012729,-0.017602,-0.003294,0.007039,0.00025,-0.000749,-0.001237,0.008504,0.004338,0.001557

Wielbark_culture_Maslomecz:PCA0088,0.125205,0.135065,0.073161,0.065246,0.040931,0.017291,0.00376,0.006,0.004704,-0.00328,-0.005846,0.002398,0.001041,-0.00055,0.02633,0.013922,0.000261,0.003041,0.005405,0.011881,0.010981,0.007048,0.007765,0.004579,-0.004191

Wielbark_culture_Maslomecz:PCA0089,0.134311,0.127957,0.070899,0.065892,0.039084,0.040439,0.003055,0.013615,0.002659,-0.005285,-0.004547,0.007044,-0.006541,-0.003441,0.018187,0.013789,0.001304,-0.0019,0.005531,-0.00075,0.000998,0.00272,-0.001725,0.011327,0.006466

Wielbark_culture_Maslomecz:PCA0092,0.124067,0.135065,0.073539,0.055233,0.030467,0.017291,0.014571,0.00923,-0.002863,-0.000364,-0.002598,0.001649,-0.004162,0.007982,0.012486,0.006629,-0.007041,0.003167,0.008547,0.002626,0.010856,-0.001237,0.010846,0.019762,0.005149

Wielbark_culture_Maslomecz:PCA0094,0.134311,0.127957,0.06675,0.068153,0.046778,0.018128,0.005405,0.014769,-0.003272,-0.003827,-0.01153,-0.00015,-0.008325,-0.014588,0.012486,0.005701,-0.008736,0.006714,0.01345,0.005002,0.014849,-0.001113,0.001725,0.005543,0.006826

Wielbark_culture_Maslomecz:PCA0100,0.12862,0.132019,0.082212,0.062016,0.05201,0.021196,0.00517,0.008769,0.011862,-0.008201,-0.006008,0.000599,-0.003122,-0.00055,0.022394,0.001856,-0.026729,0.004181,0.007793,0.002501,0.011355,0.009027,-0.001602,0.006627,-0.003712

Wielbark_culture_Maslomecz:PCA0102,0.121791,0.116786,0.059962,0.059432,0.037238,0.034582,0.00188,0.003692,0.007772,-0.00893,-0.022897,0.00045,-0.006392,0.005643,0.005022,-0.001856,-0.024121,-0.002914,0.014958,0.009004,0.024956,0.016075,0.00456,0.003615,-0.008981

Wielbark_culture_Maslomecz_o:PCA0103,0.130897,0.129988,0.078818,0.07429,0.0437,0.021196,0.00658,0.014538,0.004909,-0.019864,-0.003897,-0.007943,0.011893,0.017891,-0.00475,-0.011933,-0.013951,-0.005321,0.008045,0.003502,0.006863,0.003462,0.001356,-0.008796,-0.007185

Wielbark_culture_Maslomecz:PCA0111,0.121791,0.120848,0.056191,0.042636,0.033545,0.009761,0.013866,-0.001385,0.001227,-0.01057,-0.017538,0.007793,-0.013677,-0.019267,0.019137,0.009812,-0.005215,-0.005448,0.006536,0.01063,0.007112,0.005317,-0.001972,0.001325,-0.002754

Wielbark_culture_Maslomecz:PCA0114,0.124067,0.137096,0.073539,0.0646,0.026774,0.015618,0.011516,0.006923,-0.005727,-0.017312,-0.000812,0.009741,-0.003568,-0.005505,0.028773,-0.003447,-0.013038,0.003294,-0.006913,0.012881,0.010357,0.009892,-0.001479,0.003374,-0.00491

Wielbark_culture_Weklice:R10618,0.138864,0.137096,0.072784,0.06137,0.041546,0.0251,0.003525,0.008538,0.007772,-0.005103,-0.002273,-0.004046,-0.011298,-0.010597,0.018458,0.024264,0.017471,0.003421,0.005279,0.014007,0.000624,0.003462,-0.003328,0.01699,-0.003832

Wielbark_culture_Weklice:R10620,0.129758,0.126941,0.069767,0.052972,0.037545,0.013387,0.00329,0.004846,-0.003886,-0.013485,0,0.004196,-0.004906,-0.004266,0.016422,0.006762,0.005346,-0.00152,-0.002263,-0.004127,0.010107,0.003339,0.004683,0.024702,-0.002036

Wielbark_culture_Weklice:R10625,0.129758,0.125926,0.079572,0.07429,0.048317,0.019522,0.00846,0.01823,0.015748,-0.009476,-0.008282,0.004646,-0.004162,-0.003991,0.008686,0.016839,0.022556,0.003421,0.004399,0.006628,0.017594,0.011623,-0.002095,-0.001205,0.001078

Wielbark_culture_Weklice:R10626,0.134311,0.127957,0.07203,0.055879,0.041854,0.023148,0.013161,0.017076,-0.000818,-0.004009,-0.004384,0.012139,-0.00996,0.001239,0.025108,0.000928,-0.008345,0.002407,-0.001634,0.006628,0.004118,0.00136,-0.006902,0.018436,-0.003712

Wielbark_culture_Weklice:R10631,0.129758,0.131003,0.080327,0.063308,0.0397,0.023985,0.00188,0.005077,0.006749,-0.011299,-0.008769,0.001199,-0.006541,-0.013074,0.020358,0.005171,-0.00678,0.000507,-0.006536,0.005378,0.009608,-0.000866,-0.006039,0.008555,-0.001557

Wielbark_culture_Weklice:R10633,0.136588,0.129988,0.07731,0.070737,0.050471,0.024821,0.00423,0.011769,0.01309,-0.00492,-0.005034,0.005995,-0.009663,-0.010872,0.019272,0.025192,0.010822,-0.004054,-0.001508,0.009755,0.019341,0.001113,0.002095,0.002289,0.002036

Wielbark_culture_Weklice:R10634,0.133173,0.136081,0.071276,0.067507,0.041546,0.023706,0.003995,0.015461,0.005931,-0.008018,-0.009906,0.004046,-0.008028,-0.006055,0.021851,0.002652,-0.00665,-0.00228,0.004777,0.001,0.004243,-0.003462,0.00419,0.013255,-0.005389

Wielbark_culture_Weklice:R10636,0.133173,0.118817,0.080704,0.068153,0.038161,0.029005,0.003525,0.006692,0.003681,-0.011481,-0.008607,0.003297,-0.001933,-0.002202,0.016015,0.008353,-0.002608,0.001394,0.008045,0.001751,0.000374,0.003957,0.001479,0.025064,0.001197

Wielbark_culture_Weklice:R11391,0.127482,0.132019,0.065996,0.057171,0.044316,0.032072,0.015746,0.010846,-0.003886,-0.016037,-0.003735,0.015886,-0.016204,0.006193,0.023887,0.000398,-0.028163,-0.001647,0.004651,-0.001251,0.017095,0.009027,0.003081,0.012893,0.002634

Wielbark_culture_Pruszcz_Gdanski:PCA0472,0.132035,0.127957,0.056945,0.05814,0.042777,0.020359,0.015041,-0.002538,0.004295,0.005832,0.002761,0.001049,0.00773,-0.026699,0.020494,0.02254,0.013038,-0.003294,-0.000126,0.003627,-0.001497,0.007914,-0.003081,0.027474,0.003113

Wielbark_culture_Pruszcz_Gdanski:PCA0478,0.127482,0.136081,0.089755,0.067507,0.0437,0.038208,0.00376,0.002538,-0.004704,-0.002916,-0.004222,-0.000749,-0.015609,-0.007432,0.013029,-0.00358,0.000652,0.00152,0.007416,0.008129,0.010482,0.003586,-0.007025,0.000964,-0.008981

Wielbark_culture_Pruszcz_Gdanski:PCA0479,0.126344,0.135065,0.072407,0.0646,0.050779,0.021196,0.007285,0.000462,0.008181,0.000729,-0.003573,0.004496,-0.008622,-0.008533,0.022937,0.006497,-0.009257,0.000507,0.003645,-0.004752,0.005615,0.01051,0.011216,0.00482,0.003233

Wielbark_culture_Pruszcz_Gdanski:PCA0486,0.120652,0.126941,0.078441,0.063954,0.048317,0.02259,0.019976,0.00923,0.005113,-0.010205,-0.004872,0.007044,-0.001338,-0.010184,0.016151,-0.006762,-0.020992,0.005194,0.006159,0.021385,0.009733,0.007048,-0.000863,0.009519,0.005389

Wielbark_culture_Pruszcz_Gdanski:PCA0492,0.1161,0.113739,0.036581,0.023256,0.022466,-0.009761,0.012691,0.003461,-0.003477,-0.002734,0.013803,0.013938,-0.012487,-0.020093,0.002307,0.018032,0.00339,0.012922,0.001885,-0.002751,-0.009234,-0.002102,0.008011,0.00723,-0.020956

Wielbark_culture_Pruszcz_Gdanski:PCA0493,0.120652,0.12491,0.056945,0.040052,0.044316,0.013387,0.00611,-0.002538,0.015748,0.028247,0.005359,0.018733,-0.016799,-0.016377,0.012893,0.019225,0.026338,0.003041,-0.00905,0.012881,0.009733,-0.00272,-0.004067,0.010363,-0.002874

Wielbark_culture_Pruszcz_Gdanski:PCA0498,0.132035,0.135065,0.064865,0.055879,0.042777,0.045459,0.00282,0.001846,0.007363,-0.008201,-0.002761,0.016935,0.006244,-0.008257,0.016829,0.007955,0.000522,-0.004941,0.008422,0.006753,0.009982,-0.001607,-0.003697,0.020003,0.003473

Wielbark_culture_Czarnowko:PCA0452,0.118376,0.140143,0.07995,0.066215,0.044624,0.032072,0.00423,0.007615,0.000409,-0.005103,0.003735,0.001798,0.000149,-0.006055,0.020765,0.009414,-0.003651,-0.000253,0.007542,0.021385,0.012728,-0.001113,-0.003944,0.000723,-0.017603

I used only PCA0012 as my Przeworsk reference (because PCA0011 is not really different than Wielbark samples):

Code:
Przeworsk_PCA0012,0.135449,0.145221,0.054682,0.029716,0.050163,0.008646,-0.002585,0.008538,0.01309,0.017677,-0.002436,0.009142,-0.010109,-0.007294,0.011265,0.011403,0.004172,0.008361,0.00905,-0.000375,-0.000125,0.005317,-0.003697,-0.003976,0

Code:
Przeworsk_culture_Gaski:PCA0011,0.126344,0.126941,0.061094,0.055556,0.037853,0.012829,0.00658,-0.004615,-0.000409,0.00328,-0.003085,0.000599,-0.015163,-0.009083,0.023344,0.00358,-0.002217,0.001394,0.005279,0.008629,0.004367,0.010758,0.014543,0.010845,-0.003113

Przeworsk_culture_Gaski:PCA0012,0.135449,0.145221,0.054682,0.029716,0.050163,0.008646,-0.002585,0.008538,0.01309,0.017677,-0.002436,0.009142,-0.010109,-0.007294,0.011265,0.011403,0.004172,0.008361,0.00905,-0.000375,-0.000125,0.005317,-0.003697,-0.003976,0

I used the following 62 samples as my Polish Early Medieval average:

Code:
Polish_Medieval(n=62),0.127812,0.124484,0.073964,0.06671,0.041457,0.026225,0.008911,0.012253,-0.001316,-0.024234,-0.002399,-0.010099,0.01606,0.022987,-0.009555,0.000252,0.0042,-0.00076,0.003363,0.000347,-0.003053,-0.004037,0.007041,-0.005177,0.00125

Code:
Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0122,0.129758,0.132019,0.069767,0.0646,0.047701,0.022032,0.011751,0.014307,-0.003477,-0.026424,-0.000325,-0.006444,0.017839,0.017891,-0.005565,-0.000265,0.004303,-0.002534,0.002765,0.005503,0.006489,0.004575,0.003204,-0.014942,0.001437

Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0124,0.114961,0.12491,0.071276,0.062016,0.040007,0.02761,0.014336,0.009923,-0.005522,-0.030251,-0.006496,-0.009591,0.010555,0.027662,-0.00665,-0.007558,0.007562,0.000253,-0.000126,0.019384,0.005989,-0.011994,0.008997,0.003615,-0.007065

Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0126,0.121791,0.133034,0.056945,0.020349,0.039392,0.015618,0.00141,-0.001846,0.0045,0.004374,0.000812,-0.004046,0.009217,0.018717,-0.010722,-0.000265,-0.009779,0.001014,0.002514,-0.003377,-0.014474,0.007419,0.000863,-0.003374,-0.005868

Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0132,0.121791,0.12491,0.084475,0.079135,0.0397,0.031794,0.001645,0.010153,0.008385,-0.045195,-0.001299,-0.014237,0.005798,0.02202,-0.011943,-0.016971,-0.008345,0.008488,0.012821,0.013506,-0.003369,0.003091,0.012202,-0.014098,0.00455

Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0137,0.129758,0.123895,0.075801,0.06783,0.039392,0.025937,0.0094,0.011769,-0.016566,-0.019681,0.002273,-0.013338,0.021704,0.020506,-0.010858,0.005304,0.011083,-0.008108,0.009553,0.002001,-0.00025,-0.003462,-0.003328,-0.010483,-0.002874

Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0138,0.121791,0.121864,0.075047,0.067184,0.047701,0.051874,0.020916,0.008077,-0.02168,-0.024966,0.003248,-0.020532,0.013825,0.022983,-0.041259,0.003713,0.014864,-0.003801,-0.004399,5e-04,-0.001373,0.007048,0.018857,-0.005784,0.022154

Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0140,0.125205,0.133034,0.026398,0.026486,0.027697,0.004183,0.00564,0.004384,-0.001636,-0.004556,-0.002111,-0.006594,0.010555,0.01913,-0.015744,-0.003978,0.005215,0.001647,-0.004902,-0.002001,-0.00549,0.004328,0.008997,0.001566,0.001676

Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0142,0.134311,0.118817,0.07731,0.066861,0.035391,0.026774,0.016451,0.011999,-0.007158,-0.012939,-0.004222,-0.002098,0.005649,0.028213,-0.013843,-0.00358,-0.00691,0.008108,-0.016844,0.001751,0.011854,0.003833,0.011709,-0.001446,-0.004311

Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0143,0.1161,0.126941,0.05242,0.040375,0.030467,0.013945,0,0.011307,-0.002659,-0.011481,0.002111,-0.006444,0.010852,0.012248,-0.019272,-0.009281,0.011343,-0.001647,0.007919,-0.005378,-0.002995,-0.006925,0.007765,-0.003494,-0.002874

Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0146,0.125205,0.127957,0.048271,0.040052,0.038161,0.018686,0.009165,0.001385,-0.001432,-0.007654,-0.005521,-0.005395,-0.002081,0.011423,-0.006515,0.001061,-0.00352,0.008361,-0.004399,0.001126,0.000873,-0.012984,-0.003697,-0.002289,0.002994

Medieval_Niemcza:PCA0148,0.134311,0.12491,0.07731,0.069122,0.042469,0.023148,0.0094,0.014076,-0.003681,-0.00492,-0.007307,-0.001349,0.012933,0.0139,0.007193,0.006497,0.01708,0.003927,0.003268,0.013757,0.009858,0.002473,0.007272,0.000964,0.000239

Medieval_Markowice:PCA0156,0.124067,0.119832,0.073916,0.065892,0.03693,0.034582,0.003525,0.014769,-0.008999,-0.02041,-0.001461,-0.02278,0.011893,0.033442,-0.017644,-0.005304,0.002868,0.001774,0.002765,-0.003877,0.001996,-0.012242,0.003574,-0.016026,0.003353

Medieval_Markowice:PCA0158,0.12862,0.126941,0.068259,0.055879,0.040623,0.02259,0.00611,0.009692,-0.0045,-0.030069,-0.000325,-0.012889,0.016799,0.027387,-0.013029,-0.013524,-0.010561,0.001014,0.014581,-0.007504,-0.004118,-0.001237,0.001479,-0.003615,0.007424

Medieval_Legowo:PCA0165,0.132035,0.117801,0.082589,0.084949,0.044316,0.030957,0.014571,0.01523,-0.002454,-0.019864,-0.006171,-0.020682,0.036422,0.029314,-0.003393,-0.010475,-0.004694,-0.012542,0.000503,-0.005878,-0.003993,-0.008779,0.005546,0.001807,0.002754

Medieval_Legowo:PCA0166,0.118376,0.132019,0.067505,0.077843,0.032621,0.044344,0.0047,0.014999,-0.006136,-0.03426,0.005684,-0.004946,0.010704,0.029864,0.000814,-0.019756,-0.008866,0.004054,0.009804,0.002501,-0.00262,-0.001607,0.013434,-0.011688,0.00946

Medieval_Legowo:PCA0167,0.121791,0.125926,0.080327,0.084303,0.041546,0.029562,0.00376,0.009923,0.001432,-0.018588,-0.003897,-0.016635,0.015609,0.029176,-0.002579,0.003182,0.005346,0.005448,0.000754,-0.002001,-0.005241,0.001484,0.011092,-0.007953,-0.001078

Medieval_Legowo:PCA0169,0.130897,0.121864,0.084852,0.080427,0.0437,0.039045,0.022091,0.025845,0.02127,-0.033167,-0.006496,-0.012589,0.020812,0.022708,0.000271,0.008884,0.016168,0.000507,0.017346,0.002001,0.003619,-0.013107,0.000739,-0.007712,0.008622

Medieval_Lad:PCA0181,0.135449,0.123895,0.068636,0.073321,0.046162,0.028168,0.001175,0.015692,0.002659,-0.02442,0.000974,-0.009292,0.01665,0.0139,-0.029723,0.002784,-0.00013,-0.006334,-0.001508,-0.005253,-0.003244,0.000866,0.006532,-0.021328,-0.017244

Medieval_Lad:PCA0182,0.122929,0.131003,0.084852,0.0646,0.043393,0.034861,0.007285,0.000923,0.008181,-0.033167,-0.008282,-0.015736,0.031367,0.025323,-0.016286,-0.007823,0.007171,-0.005194,0.005782,0.00963,-0.008984,-0.011747,-0.000246,-0.014821,-0.001437

Medieval_Lad:PCA0185,0.134311,0.116786,0.080327,0.078812,0.036007,0.024542,0.00705,0.02123,0.008181,-0.032256,0.009094,-0.003147,0.004014,0.019405,-0.008822,0.001458,0.00339,-0.004561,0.008925,0.003752,-0.000125,-0.010634,0.012571,0.001446,0.014609

Medieval_Lad:PCA0187,0.136588,0.129988,0.064865,0.06137,0.049855,0.01757,0.012926,0.009923,0.010022,-0.013303,-0.01023,-0.007044,0.007284,0.026699,-0.009908,-0.00305,0.001825,0.005194,0.005782,-0.01063,0.001622,-0.013849,-0.000493,-0.000602,0.015567

Medieval_Lad:PCA0189,0.129758,0.127957,0.062225,0.077843,0.035699,0.03012,0.015981,0.020307,0.006749,-0.039363,-0.007307,-0.017534,0.005649,0.031103,-0.010993,0.005304,0.01017,-0.006334,0.012444,0.005503,-0.001248,0.002968,-0.000616,-0.005663,0.000838

Medieval_Lad:PCA0191,0.1161,0.136081,0.064111,0.048127,0.033852,0.022032,0.010105,0,0.001841,-0.020593,-0.005196,-0.019183,0.003568,0.025185,-0.005565,0.01074,-0.00013,-0.002154,0.001006,0.008004,0.006364,-0.019908,0.004067,-0.000843,-0.014011

Medieval_Lad:PCA0192,0.138864,0.123895,0.07203,0.057817,0.025851,0.019522,0.006815,0.019845,-0.008385,-0.019135,-0.006658,-0.003897,0.010555,0.023533,-0.020494,0.004773,0.022296,-0.0019,-0.010433,0.00963,0.004991,-0.010881,0.006162,-0.002289,-0.001197

Medieval_Lad:PCA0194,0.134311,0.11577,0.07995,0.070091,0.048932,0.027889,0.00564,0.003692,0.00859,-0.028429,-0.01153,-0.010341,0.016501,0.02835,-0.006786,0.004375,0.001565,0.003674,0.011187,-5e-04,-0.011605,-0.002597,0.008751,-0.009399,-0.002874

Medieval_Lad:PCA0197,0.124067,0.13405,0.074293,0.068153,0.042777,0.016733,0.017156,0.018461,0.000409,-0.031162,0.001949,-0.015436,0.015758,0.018441,-0.010993,0.00358,0.000782,0.001014,0.002388,-0.006628,0.006613,-0.000989,0.006162,-0.003615,0.010179

Medieval_Lad:PCA0198,0.127482,0.139128,0.06675,0.071706,0.040315,0.017012,0.012926,0.009461,-0.002454,-0.030798,0.001461,-0.006594,0.016055,0.007156,-0.009636,0.004773,-0.001434,0.003041,0.001885,0.003627,-0.014849,-0.009027,0.007025,-0.003615,0.004311

Medieval_Lad:PCA0199,0.129758,0.129988,0.076933,0.081073,0.059703,0.02259,0.001175,0.008538,0.007158,-0.021504,0.004384,-0.001948,0.013379,0.016102,-0.013165,0.001591,0.013951,-0.008615,0.005028,0.009505,0,-0.008656,0.007765,-0.011809,-0.000958

Medieval_Lad:PCA0203,0.129758,0.126941,0.070144,0.070414,0.033852,0.029562,0.00094,0.016153,0.00225,-0.022597,0.005846,-0.018284,0.014271,0.009496,-0.017236,0.009016,0.018384,-0.001647,-0.001885,0.006003,-0.003619,-0.008656,0.016022,0.003494,0.006586

Medieval_Lad:PCA0205,0.125205,0.129988,0.072784,0.04522,0.01508,0.009761,0.017156,0.011769,-0.005318,-0.028976,-0.001624,-0.013788,0.015015,-0.000688,0.007057,-0.003315,-0.004955,0.002787,-0.000628,0.008379,-0.00287,0.014096,0.021938,0.010483,-0.016046

Medieval_Lad:PCA0206,0.122929,0.122879,0.080327,0.070414,0.053548,0.017849,0.0047,0.003692,-0.00634,-0.034078,0.003248,-0.015137,0.013677,0.014863,-0.0057,0.015115,0.013299,0.005828,-0.005279,0.005002,-0.010232,0.001484,0.006902,-0.020846,0.018441

Medieval_Lad:PCA0211,0.130897,0.11577,0.077687,0.069445,0.051394,0.031794,0.002585,0.032076,-0.008999,-0.025878,-0.009581,-0.008243,0.017393,0.023671,-0.020765,-0.00053,0.015516,-0.012289,0.017221,-0.003126,-0.007612,-0.018424,0.016145,-0.006386,0.006466

Medieval_Oblaczkowo:PCA0216,0.127482,0.131003,0.07731,0.082365,0.050471,0.022869,0.015746,0.00923,-0.005522,-0.022597,-0.006983,-0.005845,0.018434,0.047755,0.012079,-0.003978,-0.01004,0.006714,0.001508,0.000875,-0.003868,-0.004946,0.01861,-0.016147,0.002515

Medieval_Oblaczkowo:PCA0225,0.121791,0.119832,0.076933,0.066538,0.041238,0.016176,0.014806,0.024691,-0.009204,-0.037723,0.001624,-0.012739,0.04222,0.021882,-0.009772,-0.00053,0.008475,0.004561,0.006034,-0.01138,-0.004866,-0.01793,-0.004067,0.006145,0.006945

Medieval_Rumin:PCA0244,0.126344,0.113739,0.084852,0.074613,0.032929,0.026495,0.004935,0.019845,0.011453,-0.028064,-0.000162,-0.016485,0.015015,0.03124,0.003664,0.009016,0.002608,0.002407,-0.000251,-0.003627,-0.009608,-0.004451,0.013804,-0.008194,0.00455

Medieval_Rumin:PCA0246,0.127482,0.113739,0.089755,0.061693,0.051086,0.036256,0.00047,0.016845,0.008999,-0.02278,0.012179,-0.013638,0.030178,0.018029,-0.0095,-0.012331,-0.014212,-0.001774,0.001634,0.003001,-0.002121,-0.006677,0.002342,-0.016147,0.005748

Medieval_Plonsk:PCA0297,0.129758,0.114755,0.07995,0.066215,0.043085,0.037092,0.014806,0.010153,-0.001841,-0.028611,-0.003248,-0.008393,0.010406,0.036883,-0.00095,-0.01538,-0.00352,-0.002154,0.006034,-5e-04,-0.003743,-0.001978,0.000863,0.008917,0.008981

Medieval_Plonsk:PCA0301,0.125205,0.122879,0.067882,0.073321,0.03416,0.019801,0.017861,0.019153,0.00634,-0.038087,-0.01429,-0.016485,0.027205,0.030552,-0.002307,-0.000663,0.015385,0.003547,0.006159,-0.015382,-0.008111,-0.009892,0.005793,-0.004338,0.00958

Medieval_Konskie:PCA0309,0.140002,0.125926,0.064111,0.071706,0.041238,0.038487,0.006815,0.018922,-0.002454,-0.021504,0.01153,0.002398,0.014866,0.021056,-0.009229,0.000398,0.009257,-0.013302,0.000377,0.009755,0.002496,-0.002968,0.004067,0.001084,-0.013292

Medieval_Plonsk:PCA0314,0.134311,0.116786,0.093526,0.0646,0.027697,0.021475,0.003525,-0.001615,0.00634,-0.020228,0.010718,-0.020082,0.025272,0.027249,-0.010858,0.001591,-0.001825,0.007601,-0.007542,-0.012131,-0.008111,0.003091,0.01479,-0.014701,-0.005628

Medieval_Plonsk:PCA0317,0.12862,0.129988,0.083344,0.066215,0.041546,0.032072,0.00188,0.016615,-0.011453,-0.018953,-0.011692,-0.005245,0.017393,0.036057,-0.012215,-0.005171,0.001173,-0.001394,-0.004022,0.007754,-0.004617,-0.001978,0.00037,0.000241,-0.01413

Medieval_Plonsk:PCA0319,0.130897,0.131003,0.078818,0.078166,0.040623,0.034304,0.00376,0.016845,-0.006954,-0.024055,-0.008444,-0.013188,0.016353,0.026974,-0.003529,0.008486,0.017732,-0.003547,0.009679,-0.003001,-0.010856,-0.015951,-0.002835,-0.014339,0.000599

Medieval_Plonsk:PCA0324,0.129758,0.1046,0.090132,0.078812,0.052933,0.032909,0.013161,0.03023,-0.005931,-0.039727,-0.00341,-0.007493,0.024975,0.027662,-0.00855,0.008486,0.021774,0.005574,-0.004777,-0.005002,-0.006738,-0.006925,0.019966,-0.009519,0.000239

Medieval_Plonsk:PCA0328,0.12862,0.131003,0.061471,0.061693,0.031698,0.030957,0.013396,0.005538,-0.006136,-0.025149,-0.002923,-0.015886,0.011596,0.034956,-0.024565,0.004773,0.016428,-0.006334,0.008296,0.004002,-0.007612,-0.011005,0,-0.002771,-0.003592

Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0332,0.129758,0.119832,0.07467,0.046189,0.040931,0.020917,0.00846,0.017999,-0.007976,-0.01713,-0.01023,-0.013188,0.010109,0.021194,-0.019951,-0.000796,0.010952,0.000127,0.011439,0.000875,-0.013351,0.002102,-0.000246,-0.003615,-0.006945

Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0333,0.124067,0.125926,0.09428,0.08075,0.044316,0.034582,0.018566,0.006,-0.001023,-0.035536,-0.004709,-0.008542,0.030029,0.024497,-0.014929,0.004508,0.03064,-0.00228,-0.001383,0.011756,0.009109,-0.008285,0.004314,-0.007109,0.006826

Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0334,0.119514,0.131003,0.085984,0.068799,0.049855,0.030399,0.000705,0.005307,0.003272,-0.025878,-0.011692,-0.010491,-0.000149,0.017478,-0.001493,0.042031,0.025425,0.005701,0.007165,0.007754,-0.005989,0.00136,0.005423,-0.008073,-0.017483

Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0335,0.132035,0.12491,0.065242,0.052003,0.038776,0.03012,0.012456,0.019153,-0.011862,-0.02442,-0.00341,-0.017834,0.026313,0.015138,-0.015065,0.010607,-0.011474,-0.005828,-0.000126,0.002751,0.004243,-0.00643,0.019103,-0.015785,-0.001557

Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0339,0.121791,0.118817,0.060716,0.066215,0.04924,0.016455,0.012221,0.009461,0.001023,-0.023144,-0.005196,-0.002398,0.008771,0.014588,-0.007872,-0.010209,-0.012908,-0.004941,0.006913,-0.007879,0.001622,-0.005812,0.012571,0.008314,0.003832

Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0340,0.133173,0.118817,0.087492,0.070737,0.039084,0.027889,0.012926,0.009692,-0.001432,-0.028429,-0.00341,-0.011989,0.023042,0.026286,-0.008686,-0.000398,0.004955,-0.006968,0.002388,0.010505,0.001373,-0.01286,0.002095,-0.012652,0.005269

Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0343,0.133173,0.123895,0.073161,0.076551,0.044008,0.019243,0.007285,0.01823,-0.0045,-0.019317,0.005359,-0.002398,0.018731,0.027387,-0.016694,0.003182,-0.004303,0.003801,0.002514,-0.003377,-0.014974,-0.004699,0.013804,-0.004579,0.007305

Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0344,0.134311,0.121864,0.07467,0.065892,0.033852,0.021753,0.00705,0.017307,-0.009817,-0.034807,0.005359,-0.005245,0.019772,0.015827,-0.014251,0.003978,0.024903,-0.007981,-0.005154,-0.004127,-0.010731,0.006801,0.001849,-0.003735,-0.002754

Medieval_Dziekanowice:PCA0354,0.124067,0.127957,0.084475,0.074936,0.040623,0.023148,0.011986,0.01223,-0.003886,-0.0277,-0.001461,-0.01094,0.023191,0.025323,-0.012893,-0.001458,0.010822,-0.003421,0.001257,-0.003377,-0.004617,-0.008656,0.007395,-0.011327,-0.003233

Medieval_Dziekanowice:PCA0359,0.140002,0.119832,0.073539,0.075259,0.056318,0.027052,0.00564,0.014076,-0.003477,-0.034078,-0.008119,-0.003897,0.006392,0.02546,-0.002986,0.003845,0.01356,-0.002534,0.01169,0.003252,-0.000125,0.008656,-0.00456,-0.005904,0.002275

Medieval_Santok:PCA0376,0.132035,0.127957,0.07467,0.073967,0.049548,0.020359,0.00047,-0.00923,-0.007363,-0.01877,0.001786,-0.028325,0.01219,0.018717,0.001357,0.003713,0.008475,-0.006588,0.005531,0.003502,-0.029323,-0.005688,-0.004437,0.00735,0.034847

Medieval_Santok:PCA0399,0.132035,0.128972,0.07731,0.077843,0.035083,0.036535,0.008225,0.014538,0.003477,-0.030069,-0.003573,-0.000749,0.022596,0.026836,-0.012215,-0.006497,-0.008214,-0.007601,0.000503,-0.012381,0.004492,0.003339,0.011462,-0.001807,-0.016645

Medieval_Santok:PCA0426,0.129758,0.108662,0.074293,0.056525,0.038776,0.021753,0.01034,-0.007846,0.004909,-0.018953,-0.012829,-0.002098,0.021258,0.019542,-0.000407,0.012066,-0.01369,0.004181,0.006285,-0.015257,-0.003619,-0.005688,0.011216,0.00494,0.002874

Medieval_Sandomierz:VK494,0.126344,0.125926,0.085606,0.066215,0.051702,0.034861,0.017626,0.014307,0.003886,-0.017312,-0.006496,3e-04,0.016353,0.029314,-0.011672,-0.005171,-0.014081,0.004181,0.013073,0.002126,0.009483,0.005812,0.005669,-0.004699,0.001078

Medieval_Cedynia:VK212,0.124067,0.135065,0.075424,0.072029,0.038469,0.027052,0.011986,0.020538,0.00634,-0.027153,-0.006171,-0.01169,0.022002,0.031516,-0.016694,-0.01127,0.002347,0.003041,0.005028,-0.001501,-0.010606,0.004946,0.007518,-0.005422,0.00479

Medieval_Milicz:PCA0541,0.125205,0.114755,0.069013,0.065246,0.062165,0.027331,0.002585,0.013615,-0.004909,-0.006196,-0.002923,-0.007793,0.011298,0.021194,0.002443,0.000398,0.003129,-0.010388,0.016969,-0.014507,-0.006364,0.005317,0.008258,0.008555,-0.000479

Medieval_Poznan:PCA0549,0.1161,0.123895,0.069767,0.063954,0.029852,0.022869,0.013161,0.017768,-0.005113,-0.022233,0.002761,-0.008692,0.022299,0.013625,-0.007329,-0.007823,-0.012647,-0.003294,-0.003645,0.002626,0,-0.015086,0.006532,0.00723,0.00934

Medieval_Balczewo:PCA0551,0.127482,0.123895,0.069013,0.075259,0.054779,0.022032,0.001175,0.002308,-0.001023,-0.018224,-0.003735,-0.000899,0.017393,0.021882,-0.0076,-0.006232,-0.005607,0.003294,-0.00088,-0.010505,-0.004118,0.000247,0.027484,-0.022172,-0.018202

Modern averages used in the second model:

Code:
Polish,0.1318405,0.1292694,0.0698685,0.0577382,0.0406754,0.0217127,0.0086781,0.0108626,-0.0009329,-0.0185524,-0.0043488,-0.0064187,0.013093,0.0186295,-0.0070244,-0.0005595,0.0015455,-7.41e-05,0.0026948,0.0012872,-0.0031286,-0.0031185,0.0056063,-0.0033328,-8.76e-05

Polish_Kashubian,0.1365878,0.1330343,0.0753298,0.0643577,0.0449312,0.0211958,0.010517,0.01223,-0.0035278,-0.0218685,-0.0041815,-0.005283,0.009217,0.0180628,-0.0026128,-0.0011602,-0.002021,-0.001077,0.0031738,0.001782,-0.0033378,-0.0047915,0.0044982,0.001536,0.0002095

Dutch,0.1274407,0.1341783,0.0602712,0.0440759,0.0408435,0.0163974,0.0054023,0.0072633,0.0042087,0.0019245,-0.0056347,0.0044274,-0.0098456,-0.0086761,0.01783,0.0056231,-0.0065161,0.0017477,0.0039087,0.0028161,0.00448,0.0033848,-5.1e-06,0.0138921,-0.0006557

Danish,0.1312479,0.1350654,0.0663779,0.0524377,0.0413029,0.0194569,0.0051584,0.0074014,0.0034365,-0.002558,-0.0053588,0.0034802,-0.0085067,-0.0070935,0.0186691,0.0061171,-0.0065193,0.0020474,0.0032402,0.0043462,0.0056397,0.0024349,0.0006923,0.013774,0.0002011

I used Dutch and Danish for "Ostsiedlung" references instead of German, because German average includes Slavic-admixed samples.

Tomenable · (This post was last modified: 03-02-2024, 03:24 AM by Tomenable.)

I'm curious if anyone is able to come up with better models? Especially I wonder if you can get a better distance for Polish_Medieval.

Woz · 03-02-2024, 06:48 AM

Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 0.5068% / 0.00506765
70.0 Belarusian
20.4 Proto_Slavic(n=3)
3.8 Wielbark(n=51)
3.2 German_Erlangen
2.6 DEU_MA_Erfurt3

Target: Polish
Distance: 0.4885% / 0.00488493
61.4 Belarusian
21.2 German_Erlangen
10.4 Proto_Slavic(n=3)
2.6 French_Alsace
2.6 Przeworsk_culture_Gaski
1.8 DEU_MA_Erfurt1

Medieval Poles were barely different from modern Belarusians. Modern Poles have noticeably more German ancestry.

Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 0.4789% / 0.00478935
58.4 Belarusian
15.2 Proto_Slavic(n=3)
12.4 Latvian
5.8 German_Erlangen
3.6 UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine
3.4 DEU_MA_Erfurt3
0.8 Wielbark(n=51)
0.4 Przeworsk_culture_Gaski

Poles may have next to no Przeworsk and Wielbark ancestry. The Germanic ancestry in them largely comes from elsewhere.

Tomenable · (This post was last modified: 03-02-2024, 06:45 PM by Tomenable.)

^^^
I'm not sure if it makes sense to model ancients as mixtures of moderns.

Can you post a model for Polish_Medieval without using any moderns?

=====

Edit:

There are also 5 western-shifted outliers among Medieval Polish samples but I didn't include them in the average posted in the opening post of this thread:

Code:
Medieval_Markowice_o:PCA0157,0.127482,0.138112,0.035449,0.013566,0.039392,0.006414,-0.00141,0.006,0.011658,0.009476,0.003897,0.008243,-0.009217,0.000963,-0.003936,-0.014983,0.00013,0.006208,0.009302,-0.010255,-0.01697,0.008903,0.001479,0.001928,-0.005389

Medieval_Lad_o:PCA0193,0.111547,0.14319,0.055437,0.043605,0.024312,0.002789,-0.00564,-0.004615,0.012885,-0.001458,-0.006171,-0.00045,-0.008474,0.00289,0.03773,0.016309,-0.014994,0.008615,0.017472,-0.013506,0.009109,0.008656,0.005916,0.007712,0.01413

Medieval_Lad_o1:PCA0201,0.129758,0.132019,0.057322,0.039729,0.038469,0.020359,0.010105,-0.002077,0.009613,0.002369,-0.000487,-0.000899,-0.015758,-0.008395,0.011401,0.011005,-0.008605,0.006588,-0.005531,-0.002751,0.009109,0.007419,0.001109,0.013978,-0.007065

Medieval_Santok_o:PCA0391,0.126344,0.137096,0.04186,0.044574,0.029236,0.008088,-0.00094,-0.003,-0.002659,-0.009476,0.013316,-0.007643,-0.007136,-0.005505,0.0019,0.01074,-0.001956,-0.005321,-0.005405,-0.003752,0.007861,0.001978,-0.005176,-0.008194,0.005508

Medieval_Santok_o1:PCA0411,0.124067,0.122879,0.057322,0.037468,0.023697,0.018686,0.013631,0.006231,-0.001432,-0.004009,-0.008282,-0.015736,-0.005352,0.012661,0.004343,-0.007558,-0.006128,0.003801,0.000503,0.022136,0.000998,0.005688,-0.001232,0.012773,0.010298

ambron · 03-02-2024, 08:13 AM

Tomenable

What specific samples are these 3 Proto-Slavics?

bolek · (This post was last modified: 03-02-2024, 12:07 PM by bolek.)

(03-02-2024, 02:57 AM)Tomenable Wrote: I have come up with such models for Medieval Polish and modern Polish ancestry, what do you think about them?:
https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/
1. Modelling Early Medieval Poles as a mixture of Proto-Slavs and Iron Age Poland populations:
Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 2.4309% / 0.02430865
76.4 Proto_Slavic(n=3)
12.8 Przeworsk_PCA0012
10.8 Wielbark(n=51)

I'm curious if anyone is able to come up with better models? Especially I wonder if you can get a better distance for Polish_Medieval.

It is easy:

Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 1.2405% / 0.01240539
49.8 Poland_Trzciniec_Culture
38.2 pannonian
9.0 Ukraine_Komarow_Culture
3.0 Hungary_LBA_Kyjatice.SG

Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 1.1432% / 0.01143151
49.0 Poland_Trzciniec_Culture
28.0 pannonian
18.8 PCA0002
3.0 Hungary_LBA_Kyjatice.SG
1.2 Poland_Trzciniec_late_Culture

Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 1.8429% / 0.01842911
73.8 Poland_Trzciniec_Culture
26.2 Hungary_LBA_Kyjatice.SG

pannonian:FVD004,0.127482,0.118817,0.055437,0.037145,0.030159,0.008367,0.000235,0.005307,-0.002659,-0.010023,-0.003573,-0.006594,0.010704,0.024359,-0.013301,-0.009546,-0.010561,-0.000507,0.011564,0.000125,-0.002995,-0.008161,0.005176,-0.005061,0.003113
PCA0002,0.122929,0.126941,0.07731,0.055233,0.041546,0.017012,0.00517,0.001615,-0.009408,-0.010752,-0.002598,-0.005695,0.021407,0.037296,-0.007193,-0.008618,-0.01356,0.00266,-0.005279,-0.016008,-0.006364,-0.010881,0.001725,-0.014942,0.008622

Medieval Poles came mostly from Przeworsk culture, which originated from Pomeranian/Lusatian culture. Lusatian culture developed from Trzciniec culture and some Tumulus culture from Hungary. My model is better and more historically realistic

Riverman · 03-02-2024, 12:00 PM

It is pretty obvious to me that Poles have mainly two to three lines of admixture:
1. Ancient Germanic-Lusatian
2. Ancient Carpatho-Balkan, mostly Dacian related admixture
3. Medieval German Ostsiedlung

A forth possible one is kind of backflow from the Carpatho-Balkan sphere, via Slovaks and also Vlachs directly. Note that one and two are mostly Pan-Slavic, shared by all Slavs equally. 3 and 4 are not shared.

Therefore a good starting point would be to compare ancient Baltoslavs with Slavs which don't have as much German and Southern Slav-Vlach admixture (Eastern Ukrainians?) and then comparing these with Poles, to see the difference in German/Southern Slav-Vlach admixture?

Probably a comparison could be made:
- Balts to become like Eastern Ukrainians?
- Eastern Ukrainians to become like Poles?

What do they need to fill the gap.

bolek · 03-02-2024, 12:14 PM

(03-02-2024, 12:00 PM)Riverman Wrote: It is pretty obvious to me that Poles have mainly two to three lines of admixture:
1. Ancient Germanic-Lusatian
2. Ancient Carpatho-Balkan, mostly Dacian related admixture
3. Medieval German Ostsiedlung

A forth possible one is kind of backflow from the Carpatho-Balkan sphere, via Slovaks and also Vlachs directly. Note that one and two are mostly Pan-Slavic, shared by all Slavs equally. 3 and 4 are not shared.

Therefore a good starting point would be to compare ancient Baltoslavs with Slavs which don't have as much German and Southern Slav-Vlach admixture (Eastern Ukrainians?) and then comparing these with Poles, to see the difference in German/Southern Slav-Vlach admixture?

Probably a comparison could be made:
- Balts to become like Eastern Ukrainians?
- Eastern Ukrainians to become like Poles?

What do they need to fill the gap.

You don't have a clue. Lusatian was R1a and Slavic, like Trzcienic. Ancient Dacians/Thracians/Illirians were like Greeks, they do not fit here. Medieval German Ostsiedlung was minimal.

Riverman · 03-02-2024, 12:24 PM

(03-02-2024, 12:14 PM)bolek Wrote:
(03-02-2024, 12:00 PM)Riverman Wrote: It is pretty obvious to me that Poles have mainly two to three lines of admixture:
1. Ancient Germanic-Lusatian
2. Ancient Carpatho-Balkan, mostly Dacian related admixture
3. Medieval German Ostsiedlung

A forth possible one is kind of backflow from the Carpatho-Balkan sphere, via Slovaks and also Vlachs directly. Note that one and two are mostly Pan-Slavic, shared by all Slavs equally. 3 and 4 are not shared.

Therefore a good starting point would be to compare ancient Baltoslavs with Slavs which don't have as much German and Southern Slav-Vlach admixture (Eastern Ukrainians?) and then comparing these with Poles, to see the difference in German/Southern Slav-Vlach admixture?

Probably a comparison could be made:
- Balts to become like Eastern Ukrainians?
- Eastern Ukrainians to become like Poles?

What do they need to fill the gap.

You don't have a clue. Lusatian was R1a and Slavic, like Trzcienic. Ancient Dacians/Thracians/Illirians were like Greeks, they do not fit here. Medieval German Ostsiedlung was minimal.

Lusatians had a wide range and we already know that at least some of its branches were more like Kyjatice-Gáva people than Baltoslavs. Some of the Tollense people might represent these people the best.
Ancient Carpatho-Balkan people were not like Greeks, they were separate entities.
The German impact on Poles was significant, in some Polish regions more than in others.

Anyway, my suggestion is to simply test it, by comparing Balts to Slavs without as much admixture (like Eastern Ukrainians) and the latter with Poles. If the impact was minimal or goes in a different direction, it should show anyway.
Going by uniparentals, you know my E-V13 research probably, its clear that the male contribution from Carpatho-Balkans alone must be about 5 %. And its clear that the male contribution is likely lower than the total autosomal one.

Alain · (This post was last modified: 03-02-2024, 01:16 PM by Alain.)

(03-02-2024, 12:14 PM)bolek Wrote:
(03-02-2024, 12:00 PM)Riverman Wrote: It is pretty obvious to me that Poles have mainly two to three lines of admixture:
1. Ancient Germanic-Lusatian
2. Ancient Carpatho-Balkan, mostly Dacian related admixture
3. Medieval German Ostsiedlung

A forth possible one is kind of backflow from the Carpatho-Balkan sphere, via Slovaks and also Vlachs directly. Note that one and two are mostly Pan-Slavic, shared by all Slavs equally. 3 and 4 are not shared.

Therefore a good starting point would be to compare ancient Baltoslavs with Slavs which don't have as much German and Southern Slav-Vlach admixture (Eastern Ukrainians?) and then comparing these with Poles, to see the difference in German/Southern Slav-Vlach admixture?

Probably a comparison could be made:
- Balts to become like Eastern Ukrainians?
- Eastern Ukrainians to become like Poles?

What do they need to fill the gap.

You don't have a clue. Lusatian was R1a and Slavic, like Trzcienic. Ancient Dacians/Thracians/Illirians were like Greeks, they do not fit here. Medieval German Ostsiedlung was minimal.

it is a two-track rail, some Poles have their Celto-Germanic admixture from ancient times (Wielbark, Przeworsk culture) and or from the Medieval German Eastern Settlement and some German remnants that were assimilated after World War II. In my opinion, Lusatian people were not at all R1a in contrast to the Trzciniec culture, Lusatians were similar to Tollense and Welzin and there was also Dacian influence in some Polish areas in the merger of the Celtic Boii (southeast).

Riverman · (This post was last modified: 03-02-2024, 01:38 PM by Riverman.)

(03-02-2024, 01:16 PM)Alain Wrote:
(03-02-2024, 12:14 PM)bolek Wrote:
(03-02-2024, 12:00 PM)Riverman Wrote: It is pretty obvious to me that Poles have mainly two to three lines of admixture:
1. Ancient Germanic-Lusatian
2. Ancient Carpatho-Balkan, mostly Dacian related admixture
3. Medieval German Ostsiedlung

A forth possible one is kind of backflow from the Carpatho-Balkan sphere, via Slovaks and also Vlachs directly. Note that one and two are mostly Pan-Slavic, shared by all Slavs equally. 3 and 4 are not shared.

Therefore a good starting point would be to compare ancient Baltoslavs with Slavs which don't have as much German and Southern Slav-Vlach admixture (Eastern Ukrainians?) and then comparing these with Poles, to see the difference in German/Southern Slav-Vlach admixture?

Probably a comparison could be made:
- Balts to become like Eastern Ukrainians?
- Eastern Ukrainians to become like Poles?

What do they need to fill the gap.

You don't have a clue. Lusatian was R1a and Slavic, like Trzcienic. Ancient Dacians/Thracians/Illirians were like Greeks, they do not fit here. Medieval German Ostsiedlung was minimal.

it is a two-track rail, some Poles have their Celto-Germanic admixture from ancient times (Wielbark, Przeworsk culture) and or from the Medieval German Eastern Settlement and some German remnants that were assimilated after World War II. In my opinion, Lusatian people were not at all R1a in contrast to the Trzciniec culture, Lusatians were similar to Tollense and Welzin and there was also Dacian influence in some Polish areas in the merger of the Celtic Boii (southeast).

What I forgot to point out is of course, that some of the more Carpatho-Balkan admixture might have been due to German colonists which had that admixture, and not just directly from the Carpatho-Balkans on the early Slavs.
This being suggested e.g. by some E-V13 branches in Poles, which closest matches are German and French within the historical time frame. This points to a Germanic-Romance origin instead of a direct contact. Therefore my 5 percent figure for the direct male contribution from a Carpatho-Balkan people is probably a bit too much. But just a bit, because most of the Polish representatives on the various platforms were ethnic German and not part of the Polish population.

Chad · 03-02-2024, 03:08 PM

Does anyone have the genotype data for all these individuals? I'd like to participate here. Thanks!

Tomenable · (This post was last modified: 03-02-2024, 06:42 PM by Tomenable.)

There are also 5 outliers among Medieval Polish samples but I didn't include them in the average posted in the opening post of this thread:

Code:
Medieval_Markowice_o:PCA0157,0.127482,0.138112,0.035449,0.013566,0.039392,0.006414,-0.00141,0.006,0.011658,0.009476,0.003897,0.008243,-0.009217,0.000963,-0.003936,-0.014983,0.00013,0.006208,0.009302,-0.010255,-0.01697,0.008903,0.001479,0.001928,-0.005389

Medieval_Lad_o:PCA0193,0.111547,0.14319,0.055437,0.043605,0.024312,0.002789,-0.00564,-0.004615,0.012885,-0.001458,-0.006171,-0.00045,-0.008474,0.00289,0.03773,0.016309,-0.014994,0.008615,0.017472,-0.013506,0.009109,0.008656,0.005916,0.007712,0.01413

Medieval_Lad_o1:PCA0201,0.129758,0.132019,0.057322,0.039729,0.038469,0.020359,0.010105,-0.002077,0.009613,0.002369,-0.000487,-0.000899,-0.015758,-0.008395,0.011401,0.011005,-0.008605,0.006588,-0.005531,-0.002751,0.009109,0.007419,0.001109,0.013978,-0.007065

Medieval_Santok_o:PCA0391,0.126344,0.137096,0.04186,0.044574,0.029236,0.008088,-0.00094,-0.003,-0.002659,-0.009476,0.013316,-0.007643,-0.007136,-0.005505,0.0019,0.01074,-0.001956,-0.005321,-0.005405,-0.003752,0.007861,0.001978,-0.005176,-0.008194,0.005508

Medieval_Santok_o1:PCA0411,0.124067,0.122879,0.057322,0.037468,0.023697,0.018686,0.013631,0.006231,-0.001432,-0.004009,-0.008282,-0.015736,-0.005352,0.012661,0.004343,-0.007558,-0.006128,0.003801,0.000503,0.022136,0.000998,0.005688,-0.001232,0.012773,0.010298

(03-02-2024, 08:13 AM)ambron Wrote: Tomenable

What specific samples are these 3 Proto-Slavics?

From Himera and Viminacium - https://genarchivist.com/showthread.php?...3#pid11623

Tomenable · 03-02-2024, 03:21 PM

(03-02-2024, 10:20 AM)bolek Wrote:
(03-02-2024, 02:57 AM)Tomenable Wrote: I have come up with such models for Medieval Polish and modern Polish ancestry, what do you think about them?:
https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/
1. Modelling Early Medieval Poles as a mixture of Proto-Slavs and Iron Age Poland populations:
Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 2.4309% / 0.02430865
76.4 Proto_Slavic(n=3)
12.8 Przeworsk_PCA0012
10.8 Wielbark(n=51)

I'm curious if anyone is able to come up with better models? Especially I wonder if you can get a better distance for Polish_Medieval.

It is easy:

Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 1.2405% / 0.01240539
49.8 Poland_Trzciniec_Culture
38.2 pannonian
9.0 Ukraine_Komarow_Culture
3.0 Hungary_LBA_Kyjatice.SG

Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 1.1432% / 0.01143151
49.0 Poland_Trzciniec_Culture
28.0 pannonian
18.8 PCA0002
3.0 Hungary_LBA_Kyjatice.SG
1.2 Poland_Trzciniec_late_Culture

Target: Polish_Medieval(n=62)
Distance: 1.8429% / 0.01842911
73.8 Poland_Trzciniec_Culture
26.2 Hungary_LBA_Kyjatice.SG

pannonian:FVD004,0.127482,0.118817,0.055437,0.037145,0.030159,0.008367,0.000235,0.005307,-0.002659,-0.010023,-0.003573,-0.006594,0.010704,0.024359,-0.013301,-0.009546,-0.010561,-0.000507,0.011564,0.000125,-0.002995,-0.008161,0.005176,-0.005061,0.003113
PCA0002,0.122929,0.126941,0.07731,0.055233,0.041546,0.017012,0.00517,0.001615,-0.009408,-0.010752,-0.002598,-0.005695,0.021407,0.037296,-0.007193,-0.008618,-0.01356,0.00266,-0.005279,-0.016008,-0.006364,-0.010881,0.001725,-0.014942,0.008622

Medieval Poles came mostly from Przeworsk culture, which originated from Pomeranian/Lusatian culture. Lusatian culture developed from Trzciniec culture and some Tumulus culture from Hungary. My model is better and more historically realistic

Which sample is FVD004, what kind of archaeological culture does it represent?

bolek · 03-02-2024, 04:07 PM

(03-02-2024, 03:21 PM)Tomenable Wrote: Which sample is FVD004, what kind of archaeological culture does it represent?

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/ful...all%3Dtrue

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