Sephardic Jews DNA results

[Jalisciense]

No matter the DNA company or if it is Gedmatch/G25....post them!

[Jalisciense]

[Jalisciense]

Y-DNA: R-L23
mtDNA: Unknown

[Jalisciense]

[szin]

Y-DNA: R-L23
mtDNA: Unknown

I guess American genetic communities aren't restricted to indigenous descendants...

[Rodoorn]

Dear members may I have your opinion, its this a potential Sephardic result on distance!?

Probably infused about 7 (6-9) generations ago....

My fathers's admixtures on chromosome level, your dna portal:





Combined with E-V22, E-L1401:

FTDNA
url van afbeelding maken


Yfull

[szin]

Dear members may I have your opinion, its this a potential Sephardic result on distance!?

Probably infused about 7 (6-9) generations ago....

My fathers's admixtures on chromosome level, your dna portal:





Combined with E-V22, E-L1401:

FTDNA
url van afbeelding maken


Yfull

It seems unusual for a fully Dutch person to have that much MENA-type admix even at chromosome level. Does he have a non-Dutch surname or a surname that sounds like it might have been changed at some point down the line?

Most notably, does he have fully Jewish DNA matches?

[Cceeoo]

Sephardic Project on FTDNA with a sample size of 90; which better than some papers.



It looks like Sephardic and Romaniote are ~85% similar in terms of Y-DNA. With stress on the similarity** for the reason that the uniparental clades downwards do not seem to be matching example haplogroup Q; Sephardic 100% Q1b (15%) vs Romaniote 100% Q1a (11%). Other than that, J1 and J2 seem to switch in proportionality. J1 more prevalent in Romaniote over Sephardic (just 6%). J1 dominate in Romaniote under the J clade. https://genarchivist.com/showthread.php?tid=789

Haplogroup K* being around 43% (44.4% under Romaniote). J at around 26%. Neolithic E & G at 29% (33% in Romaniote).

Interesting how did J became so prevalent in Ashkenazim with low diversity. I think it’s a bottleneck effect.

[Rodoorn]

Dear members may I have your opinion, its this a potential Sephardic result on distance!?

Probably infused about 7 (6-9) generations ago....

My fathers's admixtures on chromosome level, your dna portal:





Combined with E-V22, E-L1401:

FTDNA
url van afbeelding maken


Yfull

It seems unusual for a fully Dutch person to have that much MENA-type admix even at chromosome level. Does he have a non-Dutch surname or a surname that sounds like it might have been changed at some point down the line?

Most notably, does he have fully Jewish DNA matches?

Thanks szin! Indeed like the amount of Iberian. So I guess it's likely more a trace Sephardim than Ashkenazim. And with regard to the names it stay enigmatic, the names that are involved are Jan, Haye and Fokke. Although Frisian Jews began to adopt Frisian names (and even costumes) nothing points explicit at Sephardim or conversos/ marrannos.

So there most have something else at stake: an illegitimate child or a child given up for adoption? Say it.  The only thing we know with certainty is that it was a Frisian family that was Catholic. And in the 17th century that was a religion that was at most tolerated in Friesland. But especially that the Jews and the Roman Catholics shared a house of worship at that time! It probably wouldn't have been happy clappy, but people inevitably bumped into each other there....

PS ohw yeh the matches on myhertiage there are two small Israeli matches, but considering their background it's not due their Jewish but North Dutch background,  about 7 generations ago delivers only small traces in nowadays autosomal DNA.

[Rober_tce]

After 1492, some hispanic jews arrived to Holland since Portugal, even the converted of jews did the same after 1520 due to the pressure and repression of Inquisition.

Do you have jewish matches? They can even being ashkenazim (some dutch sephardim migrated to East Europe and mixed with ashkenazim). For me is the best form to determinate jewish ancestry. Put attention also in your family tree, if you can go beyond 16th or 17th-18th century and find a jewish ancestor would be great. I know very little about dutch names more frequent between dutch sephardim, but it’s clear they addopted dutch names for survival.

In tests companies your father have some levantines traces or others whose could indicates Middle East/jewish genetic? 

Seeing your diagrame, I see considerable levantine markers in comparison, according your land of origin would should be less.

[Rodoorn]

After 1492, some hispanic jews arrived to Holland since Portugal, even the converted of jews did the same after 1520 due to the pressure and repression of Inquisition.

Do you have jewish matches? They can even being ashkenazim (some dutch sephardim migrated to East Europe and mixed with ashkenazim). For me is the best form to determinate jewish ancestry. Put attention also in your family tree, if you can go beyond 16th or 17th-18th century and find a jewish ancestor would be great. I know very little about dutch names more frequent between dutch sephardim, but it’s clear they addopted dutch names for survival.

In tests companies your father have some levantines traces or others whose could indicates Middle East/jewish genetic? 

Seeing your diagrame, I see considerable levantine markers in comparison, according your land of origin would should be less.

Indeed on those diagrams which consist of 5 admixture by your dna portal on chromosome level. Here are on lots of chromosome traces of Levantine, Canaat even Kushite results (all related to Semite spread). I'm not in the position to judge how reliable those results are. But even taken with salt I guess the Levantine/ Near East result combined with some Iberian (Roman, Arab time) results this indicated for me a diluted still recognizable Sefardim infused result.

For me is a trace autosomal very important, because this shows that-seen from my father- 7 generations ago we are in the 17 th century in which there was a spread of Sefardim towards the Northern Netherlands. And it also important because my Y-DNA, E-V22/ E-L1401 line has most probably (I would say 95% sure!) a Levantine origin. Still the persons with the E-L1401 cross their lines 5500 years ago! That is a big time laps.

But as I can show that there is a trace in the autosomal, then the influx is more recent! That explains my eagerness with regard to that.  And with recent I mean the 17th century. A pretty recent influx of such a solitary line contains much logic because every generation a line can get extinct, so a pretty recent influx is more likely than an ancient one.

When it comes to matches, it's difficult with such a trace level. My dad has two Israeli matches on my heritage, but of course they are not big (seen the trace level).

There is a genealogist who has spend 40 years in the archives to study my genealogy (and related other families). All I can say is that end 17th century they were Frisian, catholic skippers, with Frisian names (Haye, Fokke, Jan). Not really a Sefardim environment. 

Nevertheless the Sefardim/conversos who flied to the Northern Netherlands not all became part of the Sefardim community. There are even families in which they converted them to reformed Christianity. A famous example is the family Hora. Moses Aaron Hora flied to Friesland and we see a marriage with Frisian girl Fokeltje and their heirs were Christian.....much was possible in 17th century Dutch/ Frisians.....

https://www.genealogieonline.nl/stamboom...te-familie

[Rodoorn]

After 1492, some hispanic jews arrived to Holland since Portugal, even the converted of jews did the same after 1520 due to the pressure and repression of Inquisition.

Do you have jewish matches? They can even being ashkenazim (some dutch sephardim migrated to East Europe and mixed with ashkenazim). For me is the best form to determinate jewish ancestry. Put attention also in your family tree, if you can go beyond 16th or 17th-18th century and find a jewish ancestor would be great. I know very little about dutch names more frequent between dutch sephardim, but it’s clear they addopted dutch names for survival.

In tests companies your father have some levantines traces or others whose could indicates Middle East/jewish genetic? 

Seeing your diagrame, I see considerable levantine markers in comparison, according your land of origin would should be less.

Recap. I think my paternal ancestry ends up along the conversos and before the Jewish population in the Levant.

Why:
- Y-DNA E-V22's rise 8000 ybp> went most probably together with the rise of the (semi) nomadic pastoralists and the semitic language from the 'heartland' in Southern Levant.  See:https://e-v22.net/
- My subclade E-L1401 branched off at the beginning of the Bronze Age of Southern Levant 5500 ybp, until now it has an unique (extended) Levantine spread (no Euro). 
- The conversos went in the 17th century to the Netherlands, that's seen from my father about 7 generations ago, this has lead to a of course diluted but still recognizable Marranos genetic profile with elevated MENA/ Levant and Iberian scores un my fathers autosomal (and still traceable in mines).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zwor...sp=sharing

Further research:
- the traces Marranos in the admixture, how reliable are those admixtures?
- no Conversos/ Sephardim names or references in my genealogy (masters in disguise!?

[Riverman]

Honestly I think you can never be sure about such things as long as you don't have more recent matches. Probably you find some through FF assignment in the Netherlands? Any Dutch matches with your upstream haplogroup?

[Rodoorn]

Honestly I think you can never be sure about such things as long as you don't have more recent matches. Probably you find some through FF assignment in the Netherlands? Any Dutch matches with your upstream haplogroup?

Indeed that's the insecurity. Nevertheless unless these admixtures are totally screwed it has produced some Conversos genetic profile  traces (comparable with  what can be expected from  about 7 generations ago).  Trace or noise that's the question. I think it's not noise. But ok.... 

One thing is sure: E-L1401 nows only an extended Levantine spread. With one exception....and only 150 Jews  (mostly Ashkenazim) survived the Holocaust in Friesland and mostly left the scene. So the traces are small and there is no comparable genetic stuff left. There are two Israeli's with some shared SNP's one came original from Groningen. Small basis.

[Riverman]

I don't trust such estimates too much. The most trustworthy results come from matches which share solid segments with a person. Like if you have a couple of Sephardic matches on a specific area of a chromosome, that would be better evidence than ethnicity estimates of some sort, which might be skewed by bad fitting references or very old admixture events.
If we are talking about 1500 and later, there is a chance, if the admixture is real, that you still have some matches in that direction. To check that seems to be the better way to go, IMHO.