Stolarek et al: Genetic history of East-Central Europe...

[Capsian20]

Distance to: KFJ019
0.06967677 Tatar_Siberian:STA-309
0.07095511 Tatar_Siberian:STA-212
0.07107863 Tatar_Siberian:STA-211
0.07427705 Tatar_Siberian:STA-237
0.07559254 Tubalar:Tuba2
0.07635446 Tatar_Siberian:STA-297
0.07896362 Tatar_Siberian:STA-300
0.07904569 Nogai:NOG-19
0.07989842 Karakalpak:KKA-012
0.07990509 Tatar_Siberian:STA-003
0.08032110 Karakalpak:KKA-023
0.08052973 Nogai:NOG-15
0.08075379 Khakass:Khs-425
0.08131466 Karakalpak:KKA-009
0.08164667 Karakalpak:KKA-027
0.08202857 Tatar_Siberian:STA-265
0.08287158 Nogai:NOG-21
0.08318261 Nogai:NOG-17
0.08322446 Tatar_Siberian:STA-006
0.08355282 Yukagir_Forest:Nel15
0.08386041 Karakalpak:KKA-016
0.08396235 Tatar_Siberian:STA-116
0.08431404 Tubalar:Tuba12
0.08502609 Kazakh:597_B
0.08509941 Tubalar:Tuba13

Target: KFJ019
Distance: 3.9182% / 0.03918225
30.0 Nganassan
20.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.2 TUR_Barcin_N
16.4 Han
12.6 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
3.4 WHG
0.2 ETH_4500BP
0.2 MAR_Taforalt

[Radko]

KFJ019
Y-DNA: R-L260 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-L260)
mtDNA: D4e5 (https://www.theytree.com/mttree/D4e5)

It seems that Y-DNA lineage was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier hence no obvious European admixture.

All samples are listed here: https://www.theytree.com/portal/index/sa...ommunities

[Capsian20]

KFJ019
Y-DNA: R-L260 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-L260)
mtDNA: D4e5 (https://www.theytree.com/mttree/D4e5)

It seems that Y-DNA lineage was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier hence no obvious European admixture.

All samples are listed here: https://www.theytree.com/portal/index/sa...ommunities

yes was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier same thing with others subclades Europeean ( E-V13 , J-L283)

[Riverman]

KFJ019
Y-DNA: R-L260 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-L260)
mtDNA: D4e5 (https://www.theytree.com/mttree/D4e5)

It seems that Y-DNA lineage was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier hence no obvious European admixture.

All samples are listed here: https://www.theytree.com/portal/index/sa...ommunities

yes was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier same thing with others subclades Europeean ( E-V13 , J-L283)

Indeed, some the E-V13 carriers from another paper were nearly 100 % Central-East Asian, genetically and physically as well. The question is whether they were absorbed in Pannonia or elsewhere, because to get to nearly 100 % Central-East Asian, you need a couple of generations, it doesn't happen within 1-3 generations.

[Capsian20]

KFJ019
Y-DNA: R-L260 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-L260)
mtDNA: D4e5 (https://www.theytree.com/mttree/D4e5)

It seems that Y-DNA lineage was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier hence no obvious European admixture.

All samples are listed here: https://www.theytree.com/portal/index/sa...ommunities

yes was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier same thing with others subclades Europeean ( E-V13 , J-L283)

Indeed, some the E-V13 carriers from another paper were nearly 100 % Central-East Asian, genetically and physically as well. The question is whether they were absorbed in Pannonia or elsewhere, because to get to nearly 100 % Central-East Asian, you need a couple of generations, it doesn't happen within 1-3 generations.

Oh interesting do you can post this samples , i think likely are immigration to Central Asian in period Scythians and are back with Avars this is the only logical explanation for me

[okshtunas]

KFJ019
Y-DNA: R-L260 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-L260)
mtDNA: D4e5 (https://www.theytree.com/mttree/D4e5)

It seems that Y-DNA lineage was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier hence no obvious European admixture.

All samples are listed here: https://www.theytree.com/portal/index/sa...ommunities

Are these new samples of M458 among Avars? new study?

[Radko]

KFJ019
Y-DNA: R-L260 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-L260)
mtDNA: D4e5 (https://www.theytree.com/mttree/D4e5)

It seems that Y-DNA lineage was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier hence no obvious European admixture.

All samples are listed here: https://www.theytree.com/portal/index/sa...ommunities

Are these new samples of M458 among Avars? new study?

Yes, these samples are from upcoming "Network of large pedigrees reveals social practices of Avar communities" study (https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB72021).

[okshtunas]

KFJ019
Y-DNA: R-L260 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-L260)
mtDNA: D4e5 (https://www.theytree.com/mttree/D4e5)

It seems that Y-DNA lineage was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier hence no obvious European admixture.

All samples are listed here: https://www.theytree.com/portal/index/sa...ommunities

Are these new samples of M458 among Avars? new study?

Yes, these samples are from upcoming "Network of large pedigrees reveals social practices of Avar communities" study (https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB72021).

Were these 2 M458 individuals the only M458 out of the 400+ individuals, or perhaps there are more? And are these carbon dated?

[Radko]

KFJ019
Y-DNA: R-L260 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-L260)
mtDNA: D4e5 (https://www.theytree.com/mttree/D4e5)

It seems that Y-DNA lineage was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier hence no obvious European admixture.

All samples are listed here: https://www.theytree.com/portal/index/sa...ommunities

Are these new samples of M458 among Avars? new study?

Yes, these samples are from upcoming "Network of large pedigrees reveals social practices of Avar communities" study (https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB72021).

Were these 2 M458 individuals the only M458 out of the 400+ individuals, or perhaps there are more? And are these carbon dated?

AFAIK, there are only 2x R-M458 individuals (one of them is Slavic-like, the other is Avar-like).

[Riverman]

KFJ019
Y-DNA: R-L260 (https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-L260)
mtDNA: D4e5 (https://www.theytree.com/mttree/D4e5)

It seems that Y-DNA lineage was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier hence no obvious European admixture.

All samples are listed here: https://www.theytree.com/portal/index/sa...ommunities

yes was absorbed by this Avar community a few generations earlier same thing with others subclades Europeean ( E-V13 , J-L283)

Indeed, some the E-V13 carriers from another paper were nearly 100 % Central-East Asian, genetically and physically as well. The question is whether they were absorbed in Pannonia or elsewhere, because to get to nearly 100 % Central-East Asian, you need a couple of generations, it doesn't happen within 1-3 generations.

Oh interesting do you can post this samples , i think likely are immigration to Central Asian in period Scythians and are back with Avars this is the only logical explanation for me

Sorry, I would need search through old Anthrogenica pages myself. I just remember there were two E-V13 carriers which were nearly fully Central-East Asian almost without a trace of European ancestry and their remains were considered typically Mongoloid/East Asian after a physical examination also. That means their ancestors were Avars or members of another East Asian genetic group many generations before.

[alexfritz]

Ancient DNA connects large-scale migration with the spread of Slavic-associated culture

Today, speakers of Slavic languages comprise around one-third of the European population and inhabit nearly a half of the European continent. Yet, there is no consensus among historians and archaeologists how this present-day distribution is connected to the spread of Slavic-associated material culture in the fifth to sixth centuries over major parts of Eastern and Central Europe, as the evidence from the written and archaeological record is characterised by both continent-wide similarities as well as region-specific trajectories. Consequently, the question of to what extent this cultural and linguistic transformation also affected the genetic composition of the continent has been a subject of enduring debate. Here we present an extensive dataset of genome-wide ancient DNA data from several sites in Central Europe, dating between 400 and 1200 CE and spanning the relevant phase of cultural and linguistic transition. We demonstrate that the arrival of Slavic-associated material culture in the studied regions is associated with a substantial influx of genetic ancestry from a region in present-day northern Ukraine and Belarus. Comparing archaeological and genetic evidence, we find that this change in ancestry coincided with a change in social organization, characterised by an intensification of inter- and intrasite genetic relatedness and strong signals of patrilocality and -lineality.

Joscha Gretzinger
Hellen Mager
Ralf Schwarz
Arnold Muhl
Jörg Orschiedt
Felix Biermann
Mario Slaus
Harald Meller
Zuzana Hofmanová
Johannes Krause

You can post link please ?

https://submissions.e-a-a.org/eaa2024/re...tract=2928

I'm still pondering what cemeteries from Sachsen-Anhalt could have been analyzed for this study. If they studied as a benchmark also Thuringian empire cemeteries the best candidates would be Reideburg (5th/6th century), Großörner (5th century), Brücken (6th century) and Kleinjena (7th/8th century), all of them have a connection to Harald Meller. For Slavic cemeteries it is a bit more vague, a good candidate could be Oechlitz (9th/10th century) or Niederwünsch (11th/12th century) - but I can be totally wrong.

https://archlsa.de/bodendenkmalpflege/fu...-2010.html

Another good candidate would be in Brandenburg, just discovered last year (10th/11th century), for this cementery they mentioned that they plan to conduct genetic studies

https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/20...Donnerstag.

it would indeed be amazing if the upcoming paper in question would incl sites from Germany and in regards to the potential slavic sites the two mentioned are great candidates; since Felix Biermann is cited as a member of the team it could therefor also deal with some of his greatest hits from Brandenburg, eg Mittenwalde, Wusterhausen and/or Stolpe

hopefully it smwhat checks out that way
def smth to look forward to

[Radko]

Admixture maps...

"we find the Wielbark population from Poland to be primarily of Eastern Scandinavian ancestry, supporting a Swedish origin for East Germanic groups"



The rest of the Wielbark population origin is most likely also Germanic, but from different regions. For example, smaller admixtures come from eastern Denmark and the surrounding area.



Source: "Steppe Ancestry in western Eurasia and the spread of the Germanic Languages"

[Radko]

Out o 7 Longobard samples from Czechia:
- 3 are genetically "Southern Scandinavian", 
- 2 are "Eastern Scandinavian", 
- 1 is "Southern European".

The samples are dated to 416-547 AD, so just before the arrival of the Slavs.

[Radko]

"High X-chromosome-based and mtDNA-based contamination was detected in 2 and 15 samples, respectively (Additional file 2: Table S1), which were excluded from further analysis."

Here's a list of contaminated samples:
PCA0050
PCA0117
PCA0122
PCA0143
PCA0150
PCA0191
PCA0324
PCA0332
PCA0333
PCA0390
PCA0403
PCA0406
PCA0496
PCA0497
PCA0506
PCA0554
PCA0572



Source: "Genetic history of East-Central Europe in the first millennium CE"

Do you know why these samples were uploaded to FTDNA if they are contaminated?

[alexfritz]

"High X-chromosome-based and mtDNA-based contamination was detected in 2 and 15 samples, respectively (Additional file 2: Table S1), which were excluded from further analysis."

Here's a list of contaminated samples:
PCA0050
PCA0117
PCA0122
PCA0143
PCA0150
PCA0191
PCA0324
PCA0332
PCA0333
PCA0390
PCA0403
PCA0406
PCA0496
PCA0497
PCA0506
PCA0554
PCA0572



Source: "Genetic history of East-Central Europe in the first millennium CE"

Do you know why these samples were uploaded to FTDNA if they are contaminated?

oh snap! this deals with four L1029s

incl the sofar only ancient YP444 Lad 191 aswell as YP619 Srodka 554 and also Wielbarks Pruszcz Gdanski 496; so that leaves Balczewo 551 as the only legit ancient YP619 sofar and Kowalewko 38 and Czarnowko 547 as the two legit Wielbarks L1029s; on the otherhand FTDNA does not seem to have incl Lad 213 who is R1a1a1b1a1a1c1 L1029+ in Table S3 aswell as Santok 399

how many 'Piast State Slavs' does FTDNA have in its database from the Stolarek paper in total/altogether ?