The Genomic portrait of the Picene culture: new insights into the Italic Iron Age

[targaryen]

Do we have any deep clade info? Is the data available in ENA?

[GHurier]

Do we have any deep clade info? Is the data available in ENA?

From the paper, data will be provided under accession number: PRJEB62031
However, not yet avaible on ENA ... probably soon.

[alanarchae]

I find the whole L51xL151 branch(es) interesting. When L52 was found in that lateras  SE Polish CW group of c.2500B, it suggested a reservoir or L51 still existed in Ukraine several centuries after the early CW L51 thrust. That made me feel that a small amount of L51xL11 might have taken the Danube route west too. Perhaps entering Italy from the extreme NW or the Balkans or through Tyrol towards the Veneti area in the bronze age. I remember the old L51* maps that were posted on Anthrogenica having a north/cebtral  Italy/south France kind of distribution. I’d like to see more recent and better resolved maps if they exist. I also recall a very high % found in east Tyrol in one study.  My own feeling is this is a post-beaker wave in terms of its distribution. I can’t help but think they were holed up somewhere like the east Alpine zone or NW Balkans and have routes in some non beaker steppe group. 

I wish someone would bring together in one thread all that we know about non-L151 L51 from ancient and modern DNA.

A thread like this?:
https://genarchivist.com/showthread.php?tid=358

It doesn't touch on L52xL151 though.
Yes, PF7589 probably took a Danubian path. TBD if the other L52xL151 branches travelled with it (FT377377 did not). Nothing indicates it was beaker related. Generally it was located in the general vicinity of Transdanubia Hungary circa 1600 BCE, with a couple of branches elsewhere. It got crushed by the spread of Tumulus Culture into Hungary. A few centuries later it rebounded and spread into western Europe - probably with the spread of Urnfield.

That is a fantastic thread mate. One of the very best of its type i’ve ever seen. I’d come to almost identical conclusion but not based on anything like the knowledge and data you have.

[billh]

Does anyone have G25 coords from this study?

[Olymp]

Does anyone have G25 coords from this study?

No

[Gabriel90]

Finally, are you aware that your studies are used as racist propaganda on social media?

Alternatively, you could argue that implying that a "East Mediterranean" origin as the indigenous group in Italy could also be argued as "racist" (as it trivializes the local element), rather than common sense conclusion that the local groups must have been some combination of C. European + W. Mediterranean. It's easy to flip the script.

Natives? Racist? Who is implying that? Did I in any way? Did you read what I wrote?

Racism means racism.

There is actual neonazi accounts spreading missinfo, if that's fine with you IDK, but I don't think it's TOS here.

[alexfritz]

wow looks like we dont have to wait another year for the Pompeii samples to date the popualtion wide shift; a new abstract on ancient Blanda deals with absolute dates and two samples unexpectedly fall into the roman times

'the adult male (2nd-4th century CE) shares genetic affinity with ancient Eastern Baltic populations, while the adult female (1st century BCE-2nd century CE), clusters with contemporaneous population of Rome'

cant wait for the exact date but that sounds very early in the principate so early that the late-republic could have been involved (?shift) eitherway that is right at the beginnings of the empire and its strongest period 1-200 CE

the other paper dealing with Herculaneum is off the hook !!! 94 samples
the abstract does not reveal the exact propotions but part of the sample will have 'ancestral roots extending across the Central and Eastern Mediterranean' which already sounds abit like what we have seen in the papers on Rome/Latium and Etruria; if it indeed checks out as such then there is little way around the shift commencing in the late-republic for the getgo of the Empire to have already been shifted popualtion-wide

most samples 80/94 are from the seafront boathouses (a ruff place on that day) and should cover all ages for a massive insight into the 1st c CE

Show Content

Spoiler seafront boathouses / ages