Here's a dumb question

[Norfern-Ostrobothnian]

WHG definitely has Gravettian ancestry. I think they are about 30 % Gravettian, half whatever West Eurasian is in Dzudzuana without its Basal Eurasian ancestry, and a variable amount of ANE that depends per sample. Some minor Fournoul ancestry too but very very minor amounts and only really exists in Iberian hunter gatherers and not in what EHG gained.

[Woz]

WHG definitely has Gravettian ancestry. I think they are about 30 % Gravettian, half whatever West Eurasian is in Dzudzuana without its Basal Eurasian ancestry, and a variable amount of ANE that depends per sample. Some minor Fournoul ancestry too but very very minor amounts and only really exists in Iberian hunter gatherers and not in what EHG gained.

Gravettians look like they are 30% WHG on average, not the other way around. Whatever else is in Gravettians is as distant from WHG's as Tianyuan. Dzudzuana is mostly just Gravettian gene flow from the north mixed with local Middle Eastern ancestry (Emiran/Baradostian/Basal Eurasian/ANA/unsampled/whatever).

There's no ANS/proto-ANE in WHG's, whereas there's plenty of it in Gravettians. If you think otherwise, care to show what you're basing this on?

[old europe]

WHG definitely has Gravettian ancestry. I think they are about 30 % Gravettian, half whatever West Eurasian is in Dzudzuana without its Basal Eurasian ancestry, and a variable amount of ANE that depends per sample. Some minor Fournoul ancestry too but very very minor amounts and only really exists in Iberian hunter gatherers and not in what EHG gained.

Gravettians look like they are 30% WHG on average, not the other way around. Whatever else is in Gravettians is as distant from WHG's as Tianyuan. Dzudzuana is mostly just Gravettian gene flow from the north mixed with local Middle Eastern ancestry (Emiran/Baradostian/Basal Eurasian/ANA/unsampled/whatever).

There's no ANS/proto-ANE in WHG's, whereas there's plenty of it in Gravettians. If you think otherwise, care to show what you're basing this on?

How much proto ANE there is in gravettians?

[Norfern-Ostrobothnian]

WHG showcases very strong affinity toward Gravettians unlike NEO283/Dzudzuana. The latter still does show some but not quite as much as WHG does. Also Gravettians do not exhibit WHG behaviour when it comes to affinity toward Dzudzuana.

Chimp.REF Italy_Mesolithic.SG Czech_Vestonice16 Russia_Sunghir3.SG -0.00327 0.000700 -4.67 0.00000299
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Czech_Vestonice16 Russia_Sunghir3.SG -0.00119 0.000758 -1.56 0.118
Chimp.REF Italy_Mesolithic.SG Czech_Vestonice16 Bulgaria_BachoKiro_MiddlePaleolithic -0.00203 0.000732 -2.77 0.00553
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Czech_Vestonice16 Bulgaria_BachoKiro_MiddlePaleolithic -0.00103 0.000800 -1.29 0.197

The affinity toward Dzudzuana is so strong that it outweighs the Basal Eurasian ancestry unlike in Gravettians which has basically no affinity toward Kotias UP

Chimp.REF Czech_Vestonice16 Georgia_Kotias_UP Bulgaria_BachoKiro_MiddlePaleolithic 0.00525 0.000853 6.15 7.84e-10
Chimp.REF Italy_Mesolithic.SG Georgia_Kotias_UP Bulgaria_BachoKiro_MiddlePaleolithic 0.000604 0.000741 0.815 0.415
Chimp.REF Czech_Vestonice16 Georgia_Kotias_UP Russia_Sunghir3.SG 0.00823 0.000849 9.69 3.21e-22
Chimp.REF Italy_Mesolithic.SG Georgia_Kotias_UP Russia_Sunghir3.SG -0.000634 0.000718 -0.884 0.377

[Norfern-Ostrobothnian]

I wouldn't call it Proto-ANE since by this point the ANE in WHG is more related to AfontovaGora3 than to Mal'Ta or Tutkaulian.

[TanTin]

Proto ANE are very OLD.. They could be somewhere between 100 - 200k . ANE are the source of what is called "basal" . There is a clear signal for such old layer. And there is also archeology from Asia to support it. So better to avoid mixing the late ANE like Mal'Ta with the real ANE who are very ancient.

[old europe]

Proto ANE are very OLD.. They could be somewhere between 100 - 200k . ANE are the source of what is called "basal" . There is a clear signal for such old layer.  And there is also archeology from Asia to support it.  So better to avoid mixing the late ANE like  Mal'Ta with the real ANE who are very ancient.

Never heard something like that in any scientific  paper. Sources of your statement?

[TanTin]

Proto ANE are very OLD.. They could be somewhere between 100 - 200k . ANE are the source of what is called "basal" . There is a clear signal for such old layer.  And there is also archeology from Asia to support it.  So better to avoid mixing the late ANE like  Mal'Ta with the real ANE who are very ancient.

Never heard something like that in any scientific  paper. Sources of your statement?

There is a long history of this scientific controversy. And that could be more than 100 years.
See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Man
Chinese science seems to still support this version.

[Woz]

How much proto ANE there is in gravettians?

Target: ITA_Ostuni1_HG
Distance: 3.8057% / 0.03805698
34.4 WHG
33.4 RUS_Yana_UP
17.6 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
14.2 RUS_Ust_Ishim
0.4 ZAF_2100BP

Target: CZE_Vestonice16
Distance: 3.5435% / 0.03543509
55.4 RUS_Yana_UP
27.0 WHG
15.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
1.2 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP
0.6 ZAF_2100BP
0.4 RUS_MA1


Target: RUS_Kostenki14
Distance: 4.9262% / 0.04926190
47.6 RUS_Yana_UP
20.0 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
13.2 WHG
10.8 RUS_MA1
6.8 RUS_Ust_Ishim
1.6 COG_Kindoki_230BP

Target: RUS_Kostenki14
Distance: 2.9457% / 0.02945715
38.8 RUS_Yana_UP
19.4 IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso
17.8 WHG
12.2 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
4.8 MNG_Salkhit_UP
4.0 RUS_Ust_Ishim
1.8 MAR_Taforalt
1.2 CMR_Shum_Laka

Not to put too much faith in g25 models for Ice Age samples, but Gravettians look largely like a mixture of Yana_UP and WHG in varying proportions, with some Middle East thrown in for good measure.

Without Yana_UP, the Gravettians just go for elevated Salkhit ancestry, which is unlikely to have entered the European gene pool on its own. It was probably pre-ANE Siberians mixing with proto-WHG's somewhere in European Russia.. or elsewhere

Target: CZE_Krems_UP
Distance: 3.6000% / 0.03600011
36.6 WHG
19.2 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
18.4 RUS_Ust_Ishim
13.2 MNG_Salkhit_UP
8.2 IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso
4.4 RUS_MA1

[old europe]

How much proto ANE there is in gravettians?

Target: ITA_Ostuni1_HG
Distance: 3.8057% / 0.03805698
34.4 WHG
33.4 RUS_Yana_UP
17.6 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
14.2 RUS_Ust_Ishim
0.4 ZAF_2100BP

Target: CZE_Vestonice16
Distance: 3.5435% / 0.03543509
55.4 RUS_Yana_UP
27.0 WHG
15.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
1.2 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP
0.6 ZAF_2100BP
0.4 RUS_MA1


Target: RUS_Kostenki14
Distance: 4.9262% / 0.04926190
47.6 RUS_Yana_UP
20.0 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
13.2 WHG
10.8 RUS_MA1
6.8 RUS_Ust_Ishim
1.6 COG_Kindoki_230BP

Target: RUS_Kostenki14
Distance: 2.9457% / 0.02945715
38.8 RUS_Yana_UP
19.4 IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso
17.8 WHG
12.2 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
4.8 MNG_Salkhit_UP
4.0 RUS_Ust_Ishim
1.8 MAR_Taforalt
1.2 CMR_Shum_Laka

Not to put too much faith in g25 models for Ice Age samples, but Gravettians look largely like a mixture of Yana_UP and WHG in varying proportions, with some Middle East thrown in for good measure.

Without Yana_UP, the Gravettians just go for elevated Salkhit ancestry, which is unlikely to have entered the European gene pool on its own. It was probably pre-ANE Siberians mixing with proto-WHG's somewhere in European Russia.. or elsewhere

Target: CZE_Krems_UP
Distance: 3.6000% / 0.03600011
36.6 WHG
19.2 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
18.4 RUS_Ust_Ishim
13.2 MNG_Salkhit_UP
8.2 IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso
4.4 RUS_MA1

I think you got it the wrong way. It is ANE /ANS that has Aurignacian/gravettian ancestry 
This is obvious looking at uniparentals. 
Mostly female dna from Europe (75%) mixed with P rich siberian populations east of the urals. 

Yana was modeled at anthrogenica as 

55% Krems
25% Bacho Kiro ( old bacho kiro not BK1653) 
20% tyanyuan

while Afontova Gora is 80% Krems

Or Different model

Yana as

30% Goyet
37% Vestonice
33% Tyanyuan

[old europe]

If Yana dna was in Europe we would see many P and R1b and R1a even in the west part of the continent in the Ice Age which is not the case

Instead Yana is obviously
U from Europe
P from Asia

unless we find some K2b among aurignacians but that is unlikely

[Norfern-Ostrobothnian]

Modeling UP Europeans in G25 with populations that are younger than them is very anachronistic and not going to produce any realistic results.

[Woz]

I think you got it the wrong way. It is ANE /ANS that has Aurignacian/gravettian ancestry 
This is obvious looking at uniparentals. 
Mostly female dna from Europe (75%) mixed with P rich siberian populations east of the urals. 

Yana was modeled at anthrogenica as 

55% Krems
25% Bacho Kiro ( old bacho kiro not BK1653) 
20% tyanyuan

while Afontova Gora is 80% Krems

Or Different model

Yana as

30% Goyet
37% Vestonice
33% Tyanyuan

There's a significant genetic overlap between Gravettians and Yana, and some of their shared ancestry is North East Asian (Tianyuan/Salkhit like). That ancestry obviously came to Gravettians from the East. We are talking ancient mating networks across the entire Mammoth Steppe, which resulted in that WHG/early UP Siberian mix common to both the Gravettians and Yana.

But one thing to notice is that (proto-)WHG ancestry is noticeably higher in European Gravettians (Krems/Vestonice/Ostuni) than in Russian Gravettians (Sunghir, Kostenki) and lower still in Yana, although all of them seem to be mixes of these two types of ancestries.

[Woz]

Modeling UP Europeans in G25 with populations that are younger than them is very anachronistic and not going to produce any realistic results.

We don't have any pre-LGM samples from SW Asia and we don't have anything from which we can realistically derive the Epigravettians/WHG's. So we either have to improvise with later samples or give up entirely and simply wait for more UP data.

[Jalisciense]

Proto ANE are very OLD.. They could be somewhere between 100 - 200k . ANE are the source of what is called "basal" . There is a clear signal for such old layer.  And there is also archeology from Asia to support it.  So better to avoid mixing the late ANE like  Mal'Ta with the real ANE who are very ancient.

Never heard something like that in any scientific  paper. Sources of your statement?

Me neither.