Stolarek et al: Genetic history of East-Central Europe...

[Dewsloth]

Let's see what kind of western-shifted outliers we have among the Early Medieval Polish samples:

Distance to: Medieval_Santok_o1CA0411
0.04066684 Czech
0.04087422 Hungarian
0.04223719 German_Erlangen
0.04280957 Austrian
0.04320686 German_Hamburg

Distance to: Medieval_Santok_oCA0391
0.04039146 German_Erlangen
0.04078647 Austrian
0.04224753 German
0.04226859 Hungarian
0.04406413 Croatian

Distance to: Medieval_Lad_o1CA0201
0.02420420 Dutch
0.02431076 French_Brittany
0.02481674 Welsh
0.02523044 English
0.02653969 Scottish

Distance to: Medieval_Lad_oCA0193
0.05079931 Orcadian
0.05149044 Afrikaner
0.05151278 Welsh
0.05238651 English_Cornwall
0.05240286 Dutch

Distance to: Medieval_Markowice_oCA0157
0.03215669 Italian_Northeast
0.03503149 Romanian
0.03634045 Swiss_German
0.03703154 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
0.03780666 Serbian

So not all of them can be securely described as Germans. For instance PCA0157 is a "Southerner".

But indeed they are not Swedish-like autosomally so they cannot be "post-Goths" as I speculated.

Funny that the one DF19>DF88 in the study isn't in the "center-west" group, although Hamburg is there.  But he's late enough I don't know if it really tells us much.
High distances affected by low coverage:

Distance to: 1000-1200_AD_Groszowice_PCA0299CA0299
0.06669924 Swedish
0.06825509 Danish
0.06840516 Icelandic
0.06971252 German_Hamburg
0.06976096 Norwegian

[ambron]

Bolek

Both the Unetice culture and post-Unetice cultures (Knovitz, Lusatia, Trzciniec) were characterized by a large share of Proto-Slavic genetics (Balto-Slavic drift plus Slavic R1a lines). In post-Unetice times, the first Slavic innovations also appeared.

The problem is that in the process of linguistic differentiation there must be some small innovation center from which the isoglosses of innovation spread. And it is most likely, taking into account the combined linguistic and genetic data, that the Slavic innovation center lay somewhere at the southern junction of the Trzciniec and Komarov cultures.

[ambron]

Leonardo

Overall agree!

However, when it comes to CTS1211, it can be said that it is a Balto-Slavic line. However, in Poland we see her basically at the same time as in the Baltic countries (Spiginas, Raciborowice). We also have old, typically Polish CTS1211 lines, such as S18681 (over 500 BCE).

[leonardo]

Bolek

Both the Unetice culture and post-Unetice cultures (Knovitz, Lusatia, Trzciniec) were characterized by a large share of Proto-Slavic genetics (Balto-Slavic drift plus Slavic R1a lines). In post-Unetice times, the first Slavic innovations also appeared.

The problem is that in the process of linguistic differentiation there must be some small innovation center from which the isoglosses of innovation spread. And it is most likely, taking into account the combined linguistic and genetic data, that the Slavic innovation center lay somewhere at the southern junction of the Trzciniec and Komarov cultures.

Possibly due to a tribe that included a clan of mostly the Y3120 line, or should I say its parent branch, I-CTS10228?

[Siegmund]

Bolek

Both the Unetice culture and post-Unetice cultures (Knovitz, Lusatia, Trzciniec) were characterized by a large share of Proto-Slavic genetics (Balto-Slavic drift plus Slavic R1a lines). In post-Unetice times, the first Slavic innovations also appeared.

The problem is that in the process of linguistic differentiation there must be some small innovation center from which the isoglosses of innovation spread. And it is most likely, taking into account the combined linguistic and genetic data, that the Slavic innovation center lay somewhere at the southern junction of the Trzciniec and Komarov cultures.

Possibly due to a tribe that included a clan of mostly the Y3120 line, or should I say its parent branch, I-CTS10228?

Is there any  I-CTS10228 sample from that cultures?

[ambron]

There is one as yet unpublished sample CTS10228 radiocarboned dated to 1100 BCE from the Werteba Cave from the Chernoles culture.

[old europe]

FwIW



Abstracts of the 8th Baltic Genetics Congress, March 2023 "The limited available data for Eastern Europe suggest that demographic processes here may differ substantially from the better-studied western part. To fill the existing gap in the available ancient DNA material from Eastern Europe and contribute to a better understanding of regional human history, we sequenced aDNA from people dating over a time interval of approximately 5000 years (from the first half of the eighth millennium BC to 2500 BC) from the present-day territory of Belarus. We found that the oldest sample from the territory of Belarus had an eastern HG-like (EHG) origin, while the genetic origin changes to western HG-like (WHG) or takes the intermediate form of WHG/EHG in analyzed individuals from subsequent periods (up to 3000 BC). . Individuals dating between 3000-2500 BC had ancestors typical of both Early European Farmers (EEF) and Late Neolithic European populations. Overall, our data (1) extend the spatial range of EHG ancestry westward compared to what was previously known, (2) indicate either a complex genetic structure in Late Stone Age populations in Eastern Europe or suggest multiple waves of migration that resulted in ancestral mixing, and (3) support the spread of EEF-like ancestors northeastward to present-day Belarus." - Translated with DeepL.com
GENETIC ANCESTRY DYNAMICS DURING THE LATE STONE AGE PERIOD IN THE WESTERN PART OF THE EASTERN EUROPEAN PLAIN
Alena Kushniarevich1*, Olga Utevska1, 2, Lehti Saag3, Helja Niinemäe1, Maxim Charniauski, Aliaksandr Vashanau, Mikalai Pamazanau, Martin Malve1, Irina Khrustaleva1, Aivar Kriiska1, Oleg Davydenko, Mait Metspalu1, Kristiina Tambets1
1 University of Tartu, Tartu, Estonia
2 V. N. Karazin Kharkiv National University, Kharkiv, Ukraine
3 University College London, London, United Kingdom
* Corresponding author. Email: [email protected]

[Parastais]

FwIW



Abstracts of the 8th Baltic Genetics Congress, March 2023 "The limited available data for Eastern Europe suggest that demographic processes here may differ substantially from the better-studied western part. To fill the existing gap in the available ancient DNA material from Eastern Europe and contribute to a better understanding of regional human history, we sequenced aDNA from people dating over a time interval of approximately 5000 years (from the first half of the eighth millennium BC to 2500 BC) from the present-day territory of Belarus. We found that the oldest sample from the territory of Belarus had an eastern HG-like (EHG) origin, while the genetic origin changes to western HG-like (WHG) or takes the intermediate form of WHG/EHG in analyzed individuals from subsequent periods (up to 3000 BC). . Individuals dating between 3000-2500 BC had ancestors typical of both Early European Farmers (EEF) and Late Neolithic European populations. Overall, our data (1) extend the spatial range of EHG ancestry westward compared to what was previously known, (2) indicate either a complex genetic structure in Late Stone Age populations in Eastern Europe or suggest multiple waves of migration that resulted in ancestral mixing, and (3) support the spread of EEF-like ancestors northeastward to present-day Belarus." - Translated with DeepL.com
GENETIC ANCESTRY DYNAMICS DURING THE LATE STONE AGE PERIOD IN THE WESTERN PART OF THE EASTERN EUROPEAN PLAIN
Alena Kushniarevich1*, Olga Utevska1, 2, Lehti Saag3, Helja Niinemäe1, Maxim Charniauski, Aliaksandr Vashanau, Mikalai Pamazanau, Martin Malve1, Irina Khrustaleva1, Aivar Kriiska1, Oleg Davydenko, Mait Metspalu1, Kristiina Tambets1
1 University of Tartu, Tartu, Estonia
2 V. N. Karazin Kharkiv National University, Kharkiv, Ukraine
3 University College London, London, United Kingdom
* Corresponding author. Email: [email protected]

Wow! March 2023??? That is like one year we have data from Belarus and nobody discussed it or noticed up until today.
I guess G25 is not available?

[ambron]

Leonardo

Since the earliest Slavic innovations come from the agricultural semantic area, if we are to associate them with paternal lines, then indeed only the old European (Neolithic) ones. However, I-L233 fits best here - the most common paternal line of the Trzciniec population.

[okshtunas]

FwIW



Abstracts of the 8th Baltic Genetics Congress, March 2023 "The limited available data for Eastern Europe suggest that demographic processes here may differ substantially from the better-studied western part. To fill the existing gap in the available ancient DNA material from Eastern Europe and contribute to a better understanding of regional human history, we sequenced aDNA from people dating over a time interval of approximately 5000 years (from the first half of the eighth millennium BC to 2500 BC) from the present-day territory of Belarus. We found that the oldest sample from the territory of Belarus had an eastern HG-like (EHG) origin, while the genetic origin changes to western HG-like (WHG) or takes the intermediate form of WHG/EHG in analyzed individuals from subsequent periods (up to 3000 BC). . Individuals dating between 3000-2500 BC had ancestors typical of both Early European Farmers (EEF) and Late Neolithic European populations. Overall, our data (1) extend the spatial range of EHG ancestry westward compared to what was previously known, (2) indicate either a complex genetic structure in Late Stone Age populations in Eastern Europe or suggest multiple waves of migration that resulted in ancestral mixing, and (3) support the spread of EEF-like ancestors northeastward to present-day Belarus." - Translated with DeepL.com
GENETIC ANCESTRY DYNAMICS DURING THE LATE STONE AGE PERIOD IN THE WESTERN PART OF THE EASTERN EUROPEAN PLAIN
Alena Kushniarevich1*, Olga Utevska1, 2, Lehti Saag3, Helja Niinemäe1, Maxim Charniauski, Aliaksandr Vashanau, Mikalai Pamazanau, Martin Malve1, Irina Khrustaleva1, Aivar Kriiska1, Oleg Davydenko, Mait Metspalu1, Kristiina Tambets1
1 University of Tartu, Tartu, Estonia
2 V. N. Karazin Kharkiv National University, Kharkiv, Ukraine
3 University College London, London, United Kingdom
* Corresponding author. Email: [email protected]

Wow! March 2023??? That is like one year we have data from Belarus and nobody discussed it or noticed up until today.
I guess G25 is not available?

Any Y-DNA?

[okshtunas]

Leonardo

Since the earliest Slavic innovations come from the agricultural semantic area, if we are to associate them with paternal lines, then indeed only the old European (Neolithic) ones. However, I-L233 fits best here - the most common paternal line of the Trzciniec population.

Which is interesting considering the Trziniec admixture heavily influenced Balto-Slavs, and yet, it's a lineage not associated today with Balto-Slavs at all.

[vasil]

There is one as yet unpublished sample CTS10228 radiocarboned dated to 1100 BCE from the Werteba Cave from the Chernoles culture.

Why Chernoles isnt that Gava, maybe I turn out to be right about L621 from Transylvania?

[leonardo]

Leonardo

Since the earliest Slavic innovations come from the agricultural semantic area, if we are to associate them with paternal lines, then indeed only the old European (Neolithic) ones. However, I-L233 fits best here - the most common paternal line of the Trzciniec population.

Which is interesting considering the Trziniec admixture heavily influenced Balto-Slavs, and yet, it's a lineage not associated today with Balto-Slavs at all.

Yeah. Go figure. Maybe the the so called experts aren't such experts?

[ambron]

Vasil

This sample has no assigned archaeological context, so indeed the time and place match both Chernoles and Gava.

[ambron]

okshtunas

Probably initially in the Proto-Slavic population, the I2a lineages dominated over the R1a lineages. This situation began to reverse only around 300 BCE. Among today's Slavs, only one I2a lineage achieved similar demographic success as the R1a lineages.