Kerala Y Dna and miscellaneous

[Slayeroid]

I think you can get the full paper for free here,
https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/gen...id/2002319

The study also suggests that the populations in mainland India that are genetically closest to the Lakshadweep islanders are seven Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe populations — Dharkar, Dusadh, Harijan, Kanjar, Kurumba, Kol and Velmas. The Velmas and Kurumbas are from south India while the others are native to northern India.

This was interesting , guessing from the closest matches that they should not be really different from Ezhava , Thiyya or Saliya like pops.

yes...unfortunately  recent papers seem to draw weird  conclusions!...I am talking about  the L.Kumar paper on ancestry in south west india...which claims nairs ,thiyyas etc draw ancestry from Jat sikhs and henceforth scythians and huns!!!....bronze age north west Indian populations were probably Iran _N +AASi rich...a common component for many populatiions in the Indian subcontinent...that is my inference from the study....similarly the Lakshadweep populations are historically mainly  derived from mainland  malayalis....and there is a book by sirajudeen which states that they had an upper strata Koyas...derived from nairs and nambuthiris( probably)...and a lower strata from  Thiyyas etc...nairs are characterised by paternal northern indian ancestry (nambuthiris) and maternal south ancestry( M and R HAPLOGROUPS)...and the ezhava ,thiyya saliya....in two fits ,conform to the Velamas+SC/ST mix....nairs too..although in the nair'scase...the mix is north indian SC( dusadh/kanjar/meghawal)+south iindian brahmin....

The paper itself is full of crap,  but if we could get access to the raw it would be nice .I think these same authors claimed that Nairs have some sort of Middle eastern ancestry.When in reality Nairs neither need any Bmac nor Middle Eastern ancestry on qpAdm.

[Slayeroid]

I think you can get the full paper for free here,
https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/gen...id/2002319

The study also suggests that the populations in mainland India that are genetically closest to the Lakshadweep islanders are seven Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe populations — Dharkar, Dusadh, Harijan, Kanjar, Kurumba, Kol and Velmas. The Velmas and Kurumbas are from south India while the others are native to northern India.

This was interesting , guessing from the closest matches that they should not be really different from Ezhava , Thiyya or Saliya like pops.

yes...unfortunately  recent papers seem to draw weird  conclusions!...I am talking about  the L.Kumar paper on ancestry in south west india...which claims nairs ,thiyyas etc draw ancestry from Jat sikhs and henceforth scythians and huns!!!....bronze age north west Indian populations were probably Iran _N +AASi rich...a common component for many populatiions in the Indian subcontinent...that is my inference from the study....similarly the Lakshadweep populations are historically mainly  derived from mainland  malayalis....and there is a book by sirajudeen which states that they had an upper strata Koyas...derived from nairs and nambuthiris( probably)...and a lower strata from  Thiyyas etc...nairs are characterised by paternal northern indian ancestry (nambuthiris) and maternal south ancestry( M and R HAPLOGROUPS)...and the ezhava ,thiyya saliya....in two fits ,conform to the Velamas+SC/ST mix....nairs too..although in the nair'scase...the mix is north indian SC( dusadh/kanjar/meghawal)+south iindian brahmin....

These papers claiming that Jatts or any other South Asian group descend from Scythians are ridiculous lol, I ran qpadm on the Saka before on the old genarchivist forum and they contained a lot of Mongol_IA type ancestry, which is pretty much non-existent in South Asia.



Also, Meghwals don't work as a substrate population for any South Indian population, since they contain around 25-33% Indo Iranian admixture.

Nairs can also be modelled as a mix of North Indian Brahmins + South Indian mid caste
(Remove outliers enabled on Genoplot)
sample: Kerala Nair:Average
distance: 1.3652
Brahmin_Gujarat: 50
Piramalai_Kallar: 50

Oh, and here's a qpadm output of Nairs that was posted a good while back on Anthrogenica  https://pastebin.com/zXZpwz7k

left pops:
Nair
ITU.SG
Turkmenistan_IA.SG

best coefficients:    0.774    0.226
Jackknife mean:      0.774087726    0.225912274
      std. errors:    0.018    0.018

Meghawals score like Southern Brahmins right ?

[ESPLover]

These papers claiming that Jatts or any other South Asian group descend from Scythians are ridiculous lol, I ran qpadm on the Saka before on the old genarchivist forum and they contained a lot of Mongol_IA type ancestry, which is pretty much non-existent in South Asia.



Also, Meghwals don't work as a substrate population for any South Indian population, since they contain around 25-33% Indo Iranian admixture.

Nairs can also be modelled as a mix of North Indian Brahmins + South Indian mid caste
(Remove outliers enabled on Genoplot)
sample: Kerala Nair:Average
distance: 1.3652
Brahmin_Gujarat: 50
Piramalai_Kallar: 50

Oh, and here's a qpadm output of Nairs that was posted a good while back on Anthrogenica  https://pastebin.com/zXZpwz7k

left pops:
Nair
ITU.SG
Turkmenistan_IA.SG

best coefficients:    0.774    0.226
Jackknife mean:      0.774087726    0.225912274
      std. errors:    0.018    0.018

Meghawals score like Southern Brahmins right ?

Yeah. The Punjabi Lahore dataset average also scores about the same

[Slayeroid]

Someone recently posted the qpAdm runs for 3 Nairs .

[ESPLover]

I think you can get the full paper for free here,
https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/gen...id/2002319

The study also suggests that the populations in mainland India that are genetically closest to the Lakshadweep islanders are seven Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe populations — Dharkar, Dusadh, Harijan, Kanjar, Kurumba, Kol and Velmas. The Velmas and Kurumbas are from south India while the others are native to northern India.

This was interesting , guessing from the closest matches that they should not be really different from Ezhava , Thiyya or Saliya like pops.

yes...unfortunately  recent papers seem to draw weird  conclusions!...I am talking about  the L.Kumar paper on ancestry in south west india...which claims nairs ,thiyyas etc draw ancestry from Jat sikhs and henceforth scythians and huns!!!....bronze age north west Indian populations were probably Iran _N +AASi rich...a common component for many populatiions in the Indian subcontinent...that is my inference from the study....similarly the Lakshadweep populations are historically mainly  derived from mainland  malayalis....and there is a book by sirajudeen which states that they had an upper strata Koyas...derived from nairs and nambuthiris( probably)...and a lower strata from  Thiyyas etc...nairs are characterised by paternal northern indian ancestry (nambuthiris) and maternal south ancestry( M and R HAPLOGROUPS)...and the ezhava ,thiyya saliya....in two fits ,conform to the Velamas+SC/ST mix....nairs too..although in the nair'scase...the mix is north indian SC( dusadh/kanjar/meghawal)+south iindian brahmin....

The paper itself is full of crap,  but if we could get access to the raw it would be nice .I think these same authors claimed that Nairs have some sort of Middle eastern ancestry.When in reality Nairs neither need any Bmac nor Middle Eastern ancestry on qpAdm.

Nairs do need BMAC related sources btw, otherwise that qpadm model would have failed completely since TKM IA has 45% BMAC. Then ofc there's the whole cultural and lingustic influence that these groups had on proto Vedic Aryans. https://brill.com/display/book/978900443...anguage=en

[Slayeroid]

Ivc med contains about 32 % AASI and Paniya about 82 iirc.

So
Nair mom is about  44 per cent AASI. 10 per cent Steppe 46 per cent indus. 

Nair Tamil 42 per cent AASI. 9 per cent Steppe. 49 per cent Indus.

 Nair 3 around. 40.5 per cent AASI. 10.3 per cent Steppe. 49.2 per cent Indus.

[Slayeroid]

The paper itself is full of crap,  but if we could get access to the raw it would be nice .I think these same authors claimed that Nairs have some sort of Middle eastern ancestry.When in reality Nairs neither need any Bmac nor Middle Eastern ancestry on qpAdm.

Nairs do need BMAC related sources btw, otherwise that qpadm model would have failed completely since TKM IA has 45% BMAC. Then ofc there's the whole cultural and lingustic influence that these groups had on proto Vedic Aryans. https://brill.com/display/book/978900443...anguage=en

Nairs pass perfectly fine without BMAC on qpAdm ,  except for some NW South Asians  no one ever needs BMAC.I have seen runs for nearly 50 plus Nairs and all of em pass perfectly with no need for BMAC.Nairs do have some SehGabi like admixture but that is present across all South Indian landlord communities.BMAC too recieved this SehGabi like mixture.

[ESPLover]

The paper itself is full of crap,  but if we could get access to the raw it would be nice .I think these same authors claimed that Nairs have some sort of Middle eastern ancestry.When in reality Nairs neither need any Bmac nor Middle Eastern ancestry on qpAdm.

Nairs do need BMAC related sources btw, otherwise that qpadm model would have failed completely since TKM IA has 45% BMAC. Then ofc there's the whole cultural and lingustic influence that these groups had on proto Vedic Aryans. https://brill.com/display/book/978900443...anguage=en

Nairs pass perfectly fine without BMAC on qpAdm ,  except for some NW South Asians  no one ever needs BMAC.

What are the right pops being used in those qpadm runs? A poorly chosen set of right pops can make unfeasible models pass. On top of that, archaeologically speaking, if there really were pure Andronovo types migrating to South Asia, you'd be finding Incised Coarse Ware pottery across the region, instead of the Painted Gray Ware that arose in South Central Asia which is what's commonly found in old Vedic sites.

[pegasus]

Someone recently posted the qpAdm runs for 3 Nairs .

These remind me of models banned trolls on AG would use.

Afaik ,  IVC and Kurumba are 2 pops on the same cline so how can they be utilized as a left group?? Thats like me utilizing  Sintashta and Poltavka on the left pops. In Arjun Bidanda's paper which was focused on South Indian populations, these kind of models failed, infact and he used tonnes of samples .  Frankly I would imagine a Gujarati like Brahmin type source bringing Steppe related ancestry rather than straight up Andronovo.  

The old admix tools format was much nicer looking , looks like something off an 80s computer.

[vishankar]

These papers claiming that Jatts or any other South Asian group descend from Scythians are ridiculous lol, I ran qpadm on the Saka before on the old genarchivist forum and they contained a lot of Mongol_IA type ancestry, which is pretty much non-existent in South Asia.



Also, Meghwals don't work as a substrate population for any South Indian population, since they contain around 25-33% Indo Iranian admixture.

Nairs can also be modelled as a mix of North Indian Brahmins + South Indian mid caste
(Remove outliers enabled on Genoplot)
sample: Kerala Nair:Average
distance: 1.3652
Brahmin_Gujarat: 50
Piramalai_Kallar: 50

Oh, and here's a qpadm output of Nairs that was posted a good while back on Anthrogenica  https://pastebin.com/zXZpwz7k

left pops:
Nair
ITU.SG
Turkmenistan_IA.SG

best coefficients:    0.774    0.226
Jackknife mean:      0.774087726    0.225912274
      std. errors:    0.018    0.018

Meghawals score like Southern Brahmins right ?

I think my meghawal statement was based on the GEDMATCH or genoplot results I got for my nair dataset....will share it sometime....of course those are not qpadm based

[vishankar]

I wish we get hold of the lakshdweep raw data....then we can draw our inferences!

[vishankar]

this is a nair from kollam....his GEDMATCH oracle 3 population results.

nair 3pops

[ESPLover]

These papers claiming that Jatts or any other South Asian group descend from Scythians are ridiculous lol, I ran qpadm on the Saka before on the old genarchivist forum and they contained a lot of Mongol_IA type ancestry, which is pretty much non-existent in South Asia.



Also, Meghwals don't work as a substrate population for any South Indian population, since they contain around 25-33% Indo Iranian admixture.

Nairs can also be modelled as a mix of North Indian Brahmins + South Indian mid caste
(Remove outliers enabled on Genoplot)
sample: Kerala Nair:Average
distance: 1.3652
Brahmin_Gujarat: 50
Piramalai_Kallar: 50

Oh, and here's a qpadm output of Nairs that was posted a good while back on Anthrogenica  https://pastebin.com/zXZpwz7k

left pops:
Nair
ITU.SG
Turkmenistan_IA.SG

best coefficients:    0.774    0.226
Jackknife mean:      0.774087726    0.225912274
      std. errors:    0.018    0.018

Meghawals score like Southern Brahmins right ?

I think my meghawal statement was based on the GEDMATCH or genoplot results I got for my nair dataset....will share it sometime....of course those are not qpadm based

Ah, I think you're referring to the Metspalu Meghwal sample. That one's an outlier and is a single sample only. The Reich Meghwal set in the harappaworld sheet is n = 10, and its scores are 45 SI, 37 Baloch, 5 Caucasian, 6 NE-Euro.

My hw results for reference:

Code:

Harappaworld:
Component %
S-Indian 47.72%
Baloch 34.51%
Caucasian 6.35%
NE-Euro 6.98%
SE-Asian 0.77%
Siberian 0.56%
NE-Asian 0.17%
Papuan 0.47%
American 0.33%
Beringian 0.46%
Mediterranean 1.63%
SW-Asian 0.04%

Oracles:
Mixed Mode:
1 69.92% lodi + 30.08% dameli @ 1.140
2 66.80% lodi + 33.20% phalura @ 1.317
3 53.52% kurumba1 + 46.48% rajasthani-brahmin @ 1.457
4 70.70% lodi + 29.30% nuristani @ 1.465
5 71.48% up-scheduled-caste + 28.52% nuristani @ 1.517
6 51.95% ap-hyderabad + 48.05% brahmin-uttar-pradesh @ 1.528
7 58.20% punjabi-brahmin + 41.80% chamar @ 1.533
8 89.45% gujarati-b + 10.55% irula @ 1.543
9 65.23% singapore-indian-c + 34.77% tn-dalit @ 1.558
10 50.39% brahmin-uttar-pradesh + 49.61% ap-hyderabad @ 1.561

[vishankar]

Meghawals score like Southern Brahmins right ?

I think my meghawal statement was based on the GEDMATCH or genoplot results I got for my nair dataset....will share it sometime....of course those are not qpadm based

Ah, I think you're referring to the Metspalu Meghwal sample. That one's an outlier and is a single sample only. The Reich Meghwal set in the harappaworld sheet is n = 10, and its scores are 45 SI, 37 Baloch, 5 Caucasian, 6 NE-Euro.

My hw results for reference:

Code:

Harappaworld:
Component %
S-Indian 47.72%
Baloch 34.51%
Caucasian 6.35%
NE-Euro 6.98%
SE-Asian 0.77%
Siberian 0.56%
NE-Asian 0.17%
Papuan 0.47%
American 0.33%
Beringian 0.46%
Mediterranean 1.63%
SW-Asian 0.04%

Oracles:
Mixed Mode:
1 69.92% lodi + 30.08% dameli @ 1.140
2 66.80% lodi + 33.20% phalura @ 1.317
3 53.52% kurumba1 + 46.48% rajasthani-brahmin @ 1.457
4 70.70% lodi + 29.30% nuristani @ 1.465
5 71.48% up-scheduled-caste + 28.52% nuristani @ 1.517
6 51.95% ap-hyderabad + 48.05% brahmin-uttar-pradesh @ 1.528
7 58.20% punjabi-brahmin + 41.80% chamar @ 1.533
8 89.45% gujarati-b + 10.55% irula @ 1.543
9 65.23% singapore-indian-c + 34.77% tn-dalit @ 1.558
10 50.39% brahmin-uttar-pradesh + 49.61% ap-hyderabad @ 1.561

Thank you!....

[vishankar]

this is a nair from kollam....his GEDMATCH oracle 3 population results.

nair 3pops

Regarding the need for BMAC or not .....the presence of Punjabi Arain n this three pop mix is interesting...the Arain are possibly a BMAC heavy population if i am not mistaken?