TMRCA Hg V in MTree

[JonikW]

I created this Map now this Map of Hg V , my pleasure to open discussion about this Map
@JonikW

I reckon you've got as good a picture of V as we can currently get with this map. Nice work.

Thank you its only my guess possible true possible false
I hope in future found samples Hg V more 6000 B.C

I hope for exactly the same thing. Would you mind sharing your mtDNA full sequence map from FTDNA with me if you have one? It would be very interesting to compare it with mine.

[Capsian20]

I reckon you've got as good a picture of V as we can currently get with this map. Nice work.

Thank you its only my guess possible true possible false
I hope in future found samples Hg V more 6000 B.C

I hope for exactly the same thing. Would you mind sharing your mtDNA full sequence map from FTDNA with me if you have one? It would be very interesting to compare it with mine.

Unfortunately I don't tested in FTDNA , i tested in YSEQ 
If you want my fastaq i can to send to you

[JonikW]

Yes of course this link site SNP Tracker
http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

Thanks Capsian. I'm probably just being stupid but I can't see how you get a list of ancient samples from that link.

No problem here you will find samples ancient Hg V

I enjoyed looking through these ancient samples and they certainly seem to connect the spread of V with the Neolithic, as so many people have observed over the years. My principal reason for bucking the trend and suspecting an additional WHG involvement has long been the Brace et al sample from Cnog Coig who looks like this autosomally:



This is the only really solid evidence connecting V with WHG that I know of, although as far as I’m aware it's gone unremarked in the field of V beyond my own amateur posts that this sample is V but also classed as “late Mesolithic” in the paper.

Revisiting the paper to see whether Cnoc Coig might actually have a Neolithic maternal ancestor like other V samples, I see this passage:

Cnog_Coig_1/SB514B/I3065/CC 18143: 4256-3803 cal. BCE (5492±36 BP, SUERC-69249):

“When calibrated for the marine reservoir effect, radiocarbon dates of human remains from Cnoc Coig date from 4370-3800 BCE, overlapping with the earliest Neolithic radiocarbon dates from Britain and western Scotland specifically, suggesting that Mesolithic hunter-fisher-gatherers and Britain’s earliest farmers may have lived side-by-side for a century or more.”

There's also this information on the introduction of farming into the Argyll area around Cnoc Coig, on the Scottish Archaeological Research Framework website. It cites evidence for two strands of Neolithisation: one from the northward movement up the Atlantic facade of settlers from Brittany, and the other movement up from the Pas de Calais. The first movement is the earlier one (likely to date to between 6300 BP and c 5900 BP). 

For the Cnog Coig V sample (CnocCoig_1) it looks to me that they only have 22,224 SNPs in the Brace et al study, with depth of coverage given as “1,02x”. I think they've made an error with that number and don't understand the use of a comma there but it seems to me the coverage must be well below the acceptable level of 1x when comparing those two columns with others in the spreadsheet. Any views from anyone more competent than me much appreciated.

So in short Cnoc Coig doesn't necessarily seem to support my long-held idea of an additional Mesolithic presence of V in parts of Europe including Britain before a separate and much more extensive spread via farmers. If the sample is pretty low coverage and potentially from a good number of generations after the introduction of farming in the broader local area, we could just be seeing the descendant of a Neolithic woman whose lineage had long become WHG like by lack of further farmer input over a couple of hundred years.

The other strands of evidence I'd noticed potentially linking V with WHG groups always appeared shakier than Cnoc Coig to me. The number of Neolithic V aDNA samples that we now have in 2024 including Starčevo etc has made me reconsider my view at this point and I no longer see any strong grounds to suspect anything beyond an initial Neolithic spread of the haplogroup. So that's where I stand right now although of course I'll revise my view again if evidence emerges to contradict it.

[Capsian20]

Thanks Capsian. I'm probably just being stupid but I can't see how you get a list of ancient samples from that link.

No problem here you will find samples ancient Hg V

I enjoyed looking through these ancient samples and they certainly seem to connect the spread of V with the Neolithic, as so many people have observed over the years. My principal reason for bucking the trend and suspecting an additional WHG involvement has long been the Brace et al sample from Cnog Coig who looks like this autosomally:



This is the only really solid evidence connecting V with WHG that I know of, although as far as I’m aware it's gone unremarked in the field of V beyond my own amateur posts that this sample is V but also classed as “late Mesolithic” in the paper.

Revisiting the paper to see whether Cnoc Coig might actually have a Neolithic maternal ancestor like other V samples, I see this passage:

Cnog_Coig_1/SB514B/I3065/CC 18143: 4256-3803 cal. BCE (5492±36 BP, SUERC-69249):

“When calibrated for the marine reservoir effect, radiocarbon dates of human remains from Cnoc Coig date from 4370-3800 BCE, overlapping with the earliest Neolithic radiocarbon dates from Britain and western Scotland specifically, suggesting that Mesolithic hunter-fisher-gatherers and Britain’s earliest farmers may have lived side-by-side for a century or more.”

There's also this information on the introduction of farming into the Argyll area around Cnoc Coig, on the Scottish Archaeological Research Framework website. It cites evidence for two strands of Neolithisation: one from the northward movement up the Atlantic facade of settlers from Brittany, and the other movement up from the Pas de Calais. The first movement is the earlier one (likely to date to between 6300 BP and c 5900 BP). 

For the Cnog Coig V sample (CnocCoig_1) it looks to me that they only have 22,224 SNPs in the Brace et al study, with depth of coverage given as “1,02x”. I think they've made an error with that number and don't understand the use of a comma there but it seems to me the coverage must be well below the acceptable level of 1x when comparing those two columns with others in the spreadsheet. Any views from anyone more competent than me much appreciated.

So in short Cnoc Coig doesn't necessarily seem to support my long-held idea of an additional Mesolithic presence of V in parts of Europe including Britain before a separate and much more extensive spread via farmers. If the sample is pretty low coverage and potentially from a good number of generations after the introduction of farming in the broader local area, we could just be seeing the descendant of a Neolithic woman whose lineage had long become WHG like by lack of further farmer input over a couple of hundred years.

The other strands of evidence I'd noticed potentially linking V with WHG groups always appeared shakier than Cnoc Coig to me. The number of Neolithic V aDNA samples that we now have in 2024 including Starčevo etc has made me reconsider my view at this point and I no longer see any strong grounds to suspect anything beyond an initial Neolithic spread of the haplogroup. So that's where I stand right now although of course I'll revise my view again if evidence emerges to contradict it.

Thanks for this information 
Prolem its only sample had ancestry WHG , I believe that Haplogroup V is very difficult have related with WHG 
I think this Haplogroup is spread to Iberia and central Europe likely with EEF and possible also with Yamnaya ancestry 
For East Europe is likely spread with Yamnaya 
In UK maybe is linked with EEF and Yamnaya ( Bell-beaker?)

[JonikW]

No problem here you will find samples ancient Hg V

I enjoyed looking through these ancient samples and they certainly seem to connect the spread of V with the Neolithic, as so many people have observed over the years. My principal reason for bucking the trend and suspecting an additional WHG involvement has long been the Brace et al sample from Cnog Coig who looks like this autosomally:



This is the only really solid evidence connecting V with WHG that I know of, although as far as I’m aware it's gone unremarked in the field of V beyond my own amateur posts that this sample is V but also classed as “late Mesolithic” in the paper.

Revisiting the paper to see whether Cnoc Coig might actually have a Neolithic maternal ancestor like other V samples, I see this passage:

Cnog_Coig_1/SB514B/I3065/CC 18143: 4256-3803 cal. BCE (5492±36 BP, SUERC-69249):

“When calibrated for the marine reservoir effect, radiocarbon dates of human remains from Cnoc Coig date from 4370-3800 BCE, overlapping with the earliest Neolithic radiocarbon dates from Britain and western Scotland specifically, suggesting that Mesolithic hunter-fisher-gatherers and Britain’s earliest farmers may have lived side-by-side for a century or more.”

There's also this information on the introduction of farming into the Argyll area around Cnoc Coig, on the Scottish Archaeological Research Framework website. It cites evidence for two strands of Neolithisation: one from the northward movement up the Atlantic facade of settlers from Brittany, and the other movement up from the Pas de Calais. The first movement is the earlier one (likely to date to between 6300 BP and c 5900 BP). 

For the Cnog Coig V sample (CnocCoig_1) it looks to me that they only have 22,224 SNPs in the Brace et al study, with depth of coverage given as “1,02x”. I think they've made an error with that number and don't understand the use of a comma there but it seems to me the coverage must be well below the acceptable level of 1x when comparing those two columns with others in the spreadsheet. Any views from anyone more competent than me much appreciated.

So in short Cnoc Coig doesn't necessarily seem to support my long-held idea of an additional Mesolithic presence of V in parts of Europe including Britain before a separate and much more extensive spread via farmers. If the sample is pretty low coverage and potentially from a good number of generations after the introduction of farming in the broader local area, we could just be seeing the descendant of a Neolithic woman whose lineage had long become WHG like by lack of further farmer input over a couple of hundred years.

The other strands of evidence I'd noticed potentially linking V with WHG groups always appeared shakier than Cnoc Coig to me. The number of Neolithic V aDNA samples that we now have in 2024 including Starčevo etc has made me reconsider my view at this point and I no longer see any strong grounds to suspect anything beyond an initial Neolithic spread of the haplogroup. So that's where I stand right now although of course I'll revise my view again if evidence emerges to contradict it.

Thanks for this information 
Prolem its only sample had ancestry WHG , I believe that Haplogroup V is very difficult have related with WHG 
I think this Haplogroup is spread to Iberia and central Europe likely with EEF and possible also with Yamnaya ancestry 
For East Europe is likely spread with Yamnaya 
In UK maybe is linked with EEF and Yamnaya ( Bell-beaker?)

I completely agree with you about the Neolithic. You probably remember this paper, which I’ve just been looking through: “Northwest African Neolithic initiated by migrants from Iberia and Levant.” 

The authors “suggest that farming was introduced [to North Africa] by European migrants and was then rapidly adopted by local groups.” I don't think that was a controversial finding in any way.

There was one “HV0” sample in this paper too. The authors discuss crossings from southern Iberia to Morocco by Neolithic farmers and also potential crossings through the Sicilian-Tunisian Strait as well as a separate later movement from the Levant.

I guess this might explain how my V78 match eventually ended up in Tunisia. There are enough British and Irish ancient V samples from the Neolithic to see that this is indeed highly likely to explain the start of the movement in my own neck of the woods, with more V coming later courtesy of the Beakers, IA etc as you say and as we can see in the record.

What's your latest theory for your own V line? I think we're the only two V members of GA, and it's great to be able to discuss all this here. I think there were only about five of us on AG at its height but we had some good discussions. :-)

[Capsian20]

I enjoyed looking through these ancient samples and they certainly seem to connect the spread of V with the Neolithic, as so many people have observed over the years. My principal reason for bucking the trend and suspecting an additional WHG involvement has long been the Brace et al sample from Cnog Coig who looks like this autosomally:



This is the only really solid evidence connecting V with WHG that I know of, although as far as I’m aware it's gone unremarked in the field of V beyond my own amateur posts that this sample is V but also classed as “late Mesolithic” in the paper.

Revisiting the paper to see whether Cnoc Coig might actually have a Neolithic maternal ancestor like other V samples, I see this passage:

Cnog_Coig_1/SB514B/I3065/CC 18143: 4256-3803 cal. BCE (5492±36 BP, SUERC-69249):

“When calibrated for the marine reservoir effect, radiocarbon dates of human remains from Cnoc Coig date from 4370-3800 BCE, overlapping with the earliest Neolithic radiocarbon dates from Britain and western Scotland specifically, suggesting that Mesolithic hunter-fisher-gatherers and Britain’s earliest farmers may have lived side-by-side for a century or more.”

There's also this information on the introduction of farming into the Argyll area around Cnoc Coig, on the Scottish Archaeological Research Framework website. It cites evidence for two strands of Neolithisation: one from the northward movement up the Atlantic facade of settlers from Brittany, and the other movement up from the Pas de Calais. The first movement is the earlier one (likely to date to between 6300 BP and c 5900 BP). 

For the Cnog Coig V sample (CnocCoig_1) it looks to me that they only have 22,224 SNPs in the Brace et al study, with depth of coverage given as “1,02x”. I think they've made an error with that number and don't understand the use of a comma there but it seems to me the coverage must be well below the acceptable level of 1x when comparing those two columns with others in the spreadsheet. Any views from anyone more competent than me much appreciated.

So in short Cnoc Coig doesn't necessarily seem to support my long-held idea of an additional Mesolithic presence of V in parts of Europe including Britain before a separate and much more extensive spread via farmers. If the sample is pretty low coverage and potentially from a good number of generations after the introduction of farming in the broader local area, we could just be seeing the descendant of a Neolithic woman whose lineage had long become WHG like by lack of further farmer input over a couple of hundred years.

The other strands of evidence I'd noticed potentially linking V with WHG groups always appeared shakier than Cnoc Coig to me. The number of Neolithic V aDNA samples that we now have in 2024 including Starčevo etc has made me reconsider my view at this point and I no longer see any strong grounds to suspect anything beyond an initial Neolithic spread of the haplogroup. So that's where I stand right now although of course I'll revise my view again if evidence emerges to contradict it.

Thanks for this information 
Prolem its only sample had ancestry WHG , I believe that Haplogroup V is very difficult have related with WHG 
I think this Haplogroup is spread to Iberia and central Europe likely with EEF and possible also with Yamnaya ancestry 
For East Europe is likely spread with Yamnaya 
In UK maybe is linked with EEF and Yamnaya ( Bell-beaker?)

I completely agree with you about the Neolithic. You probably remember this paper, which I’ve just been looking through: “Northwest African Neolithic initiated by migrants from Iberia and Levant.” 

The authors “suggest that farming was introduced [to North Africa] by European migrants and was then rapidly adopted by local groups.” I don't think that was a controversial finding in any way.

There was one “HV0” sample in this paper too. The authors discuss crossings from southern Iberia to Morocco by Neolithic farmers and also potential crossings through the Sicilian-Tunisian Strait as well as a separate later movement from the Levant.

I guess this might explain how my V78 match eventually ended up in Tunisia. There are enough British and Irish ancient V samples from the Neolithic to see that this is indeed highly likely to explain the start of the movement in my own neck of the woods, with more V coming later courtesy of the Beakers, IA etc as you say and as we can see in the record.

What's your latest theory for your own V line? I think we're the only two V members of GA, and it's great to be able to discuss all this here. I think there were only about five of us on AG at its height but we had some good discussions. :-)

Yes i remember this sample EEF back a 7500 year old from North Morocco 1/4 North Africa ancestry and 3/4 European ( EEF) its belong a HV0a* , i will trying to contact with team Yfull and i hope to added it
for your subclade V78 in North Africa i think its very complicated to know history this subclade maybe EEF maybe Bell-beaker maybe Roman maybe Vandals 
for my subclade V25 its seems to me this Subclade in North Africa back a era Bell-beaker this subclade very diversity in North Africa and in last study about samples from serbia there sample ancient back a era Roman ( between 100~200 CE) its was 100% North Africa ancestry 
of course mtDNA Haplogroup V its mean for us a lot because we are belong a this mtDNA Haplogroup

[Capsian20]

@JonikW,Do you remember id this sample from Morocco , i think its first a Ktg... ?

[JonikW]

@JonikW,Do you remember id this sample from Morocco , i think its first a Ktg... ?

Here you go Capsian:


ktg004

KTG

Early Neolithic Cardial

7159–6945

9.020

2819.18000

XY

HV0 + 195

G2a2b2a1a1c1a

2.0035

[Capsian20]

@JonikW,Do you remember id this sample from Morocco , i think its first a Ktg... ?

Here you go Capsian:


ktg004

KTG

Early Neolithic Cardial

7159–6945

9.020

2819.18000

XY

HV0 + 195

G2a2b2a1a1c1a

2.0035

Thank you i will contact team YFULL to added this samples , although unfortunately i contact team Yfull  to added samples poland but nothing added of this samples

[Capsian20]

Target: Morocco_EN:ktg004__BC_5100__Cov_unknown
Distance: 5.0403% / 0.05040308
81.4 TUR_Barcin_N
10.0 MAR_Taforalt
8.6 WHG

Target: Morocco_EN:ktg004__BC_5100__Cov_unknown
Distance: 5.4843% / 0.05484339
83.2 Sardinian
16.8 North_Africa

Distance to: Morocco_EN:ktg004__BC_5100__Cov_unknown
0.06864885 Sardinian:Sardinian
0.06878141 Sardinian:Sardinian_North
0.07296184 Sardinian:Sardinian_Sulcis-Iglesiente
0.07411020 Sardinian:Sardinian_Benetutti
0.09480959 Sardinian:Sardinian_North_o
0.12714554 Spain:Spanish_Murcia_(Murcia)
0.12746536 Portugalortuguese_Azores
0.13090095 North_&_Central_Italy:Italian_Carloforte_(Ligurian)
0.13247715 Spain:Spanish_Extremadura_(Extremaduran)
0.13248403 South_East_Europe:Greek_Peloponnese_Laconia_Monemvasia_Municipality_o
0.13264424 Spain:Spanish_Andalusia_(Andalusian)
0.13277735 Spain:Spanish_Murcia_(Murcian)
0.13312224 Spain:Spanish_La_Rioja_(Riojan)
0.13343481 Spain:Spanish_Castilla-La_Mancha_(Castilian)
0.13375318 Portugalortuguese
0.13382581 Central_Med:Sicilian_South_Agrigento
0.13447854 Spain:Spanish_Baleares_Menorca_(Catalan)
0.13499190 Central_Med:Sicilian_East
0.13513921 Spain:Spanish_Cantabria_(Cantabrian)
0.13531900 Spain:Spanish_Aragon_(Aragonese)
0.13536891 Central_Med:Italian_Lazio_(Lazian)
0.13545521 Central_Med:Maltese
0.13571832 Spain:Spanish_Navarre_(Navarrese)
0.13577853 Spain:Spanish_Galicia_(Galician)
0.13578892 Spain:Spanish_Valencia_Alicante_(Valencian)

[Capsian20]

Well now i sent message to team Yfull I hope team Yull to added this sample to Tree MTree , we should now to wait a monday i dont think tomorrow i will found reply team Yfull
@JonikW

[Capsian20]

Hi @JonikW can you please post link BAM of this sample

Please send us a link to the BAM file for this sample and a link to a
scientific paper on these samples. We will consider adding this sample
to our tree.

Best regards, Tatiana
YFull Team.

[JonikW]

Thanks for this information 
Prolem its only sample had ancestry WHG , I believe that Haplogroup V is very difficult have related with WHG 
I think this Haplogroup is spread to Iberia and central Europe likely with EEF and possible also with Yamnaya ancestry 
For East Europe is likely spread with Yamnaya 
In UK maybe is linked with EEF and Yamnaya ( Bell-beaker?)

I completely agree with you about the Neolithic. You probably remember this paper, which I’ve just been looking through: “Northwest African Neolithic initiated by migrants from Iberia and Levant.” 

The authors “suggest that farming was introduced [to North Africa] by European migrants and was then rapidly adopted by local groups.” I don't think that was a controversial finding in any way.

There was one “HV0” sample in this paper too. The authors discuss crossings from southern Iberia to Morocco by Neolithic farmers and also potential crossings through the Sicilian-Tunisian Strait as well as a separate later movement from the Levant.

I guess this might explain how my V78 match eventually ended up in Tunisia. There are enough British and Irish ancient V samples from the Neolithic to see that this is indeed highly likely to explain the start of the movement in my own neck of the woods, with more V coming later courtesy of the Beakers, IA etc as you say and as we can see in the record.

What's your latest theory for your own V line? I think we're the only two V members of GA, and it's great to be able to discuss all this here. I think there were only about five of us on AG at its height but we had some good discussions. :-)

Yes i remember this sample EEF back a 7500 year old from North Morocco 1/4 North Africa ancestry and 3/4 European ( EEF) its belong a HV0a* , i will trying to contact with team Yfull and i hope to added it
for your subclade V78 in North Africa i think its very complicated to know history this subclade maybe EEF maybe Bell-beaker maybe Roman maybe Vandals 
for my subclade V25 its seems to me this Subclade in North Africa back a era Bell-beaker this subclade very diversity in North Africa and in last study about samples from serbia there sample ancient back a era Roman ( between 100~200 CE) its was 100% North Africa ancestry 
of course mtDNA Haplogroup V its mean for us a lot because we are belong a this mtDNA Haplogroup

Thanks for this and I'm still pondering away. It's intriguing to think my direct maternal line was quite possibly EEF then Beaker then IA Celt and/or Germanic before ending up where I can trace it to in Wales. The other V78 tester will have their own story of course that may well involve a Beaker heritage shared with me and potentially other cultures too after the earlier EEF. I've just realised I've been calling the tester Tunisian in recent posts when they're actually Algerian. Very sloppy of me.

The really interesting thing is the date of our split. I guess that only aDNA might help although coming across V78 would be like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack and I'm still concerned that the current studies wouldn't even identify the subclade if they found it. It's possible the two of us went our separate ways on our V78 lines in any of the EEF, Beaker or Vandal/Germanic cultures as you say, or even perhaps with the Normans as I mentioned earlier, although I seriously doubt the date was anywhere near that late. 

I like your theory for V25 and I'm fascinated about that Serbian sample of North African heritage. I just took a look on YFull and was impressed by the number of samples. Based on what I see there, I'd say it's a sure bet that the real dates for V25 are far older than those that YFull has assigned. I'm sadly ignorant on the level of Beaker activity in North Africa and need to read up on it.

[Capsian20]

I completely agree with you about the Neolithic. You probably remember this paper, which I’ve just been looking through: “Northwest African Neolithic initiated by migrants from Iberia and Levant.” 

The authors “suggest that farming was introduced [to North Africa] by European migrants and was then rapidly adopted by local groups.” I don't think that was a controversial finding in any way.

There was one “HV0” sample in this paper too. The authors discuss crossings from southern Iberia to Morocco by Neolithic farmers and also potential crossings through the Sicilian-Tunisian Strait as well as a separate later movement from the Levant.

I guess this might explain how my V78 match eventually ended up in Tunisia. There are enough British and Irish ancient V samples from the Neolithic to see that this is indeed highly likely to explain the start of the movement in my own neck of the woods, with more V coming later courtesy of the Beakers, IA etc as you say and as we can see in the record.

What's your latest theory for your own V line? I think we're the only two V members of GA, and it's great to be able to discuss all this here. I think there were only about five of us on AG at its height but we had some good discussions. :-)

Yes i remember this sample EEF back a 7500 year old from North Morocco 1/4 North Africa ancestry and 3/4 European ( EEF) its belong a HV0a* , i will trying to contact with team Yfull and i hope to added it
for your subclade V78 in North Africa i think its very complicated to know history this subclade maybe EEF maybe Bell-beaker maybe Roman maybe Vandals 
for my subclade V25 its seems to me this Subclade in North Africa back a era Bell-beaker this subclade very diversity in North Africa and in last study about samples from serbia there sample ancient back a era Roman ( between 100~200 CE) its was 100% North Africa ancestry 
of course mtDNA Haplogroup V its mean for us a lot because we are belong a this mtDNA Haplogroup

Thanks for this and I'm still pondering away. It's intriguing to think my direct maternal line was quite possibly EEF then Beaker then IA Celt and/or Germanic before ending up where I can trace it to in Wales. The other V78 tester will have their own story of course that may well involve a Beaker heritage shared with me and potentially other cultures too after the earlier EEF. I've just realised I've been calling the tester Tunisian in recent posts when they're actually Algerian. Very sloppy of me.

The really interesting thing is the date of our split. I guess that only aDNA might help although coming across V78 would be like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack and I'm still concerned that the current studies wouldn't even identify the subclade if they found it. It's possible the two of us went our separate ways on our V78 lines in any of the EEF, Beaker or Vandal/Germanic cultures as you say, or even perhaps with the Normans as I mentioned earlier, although I seriously doubt the date was anywhere near that late. 

I like your theory for V25 and I'm fascinated about that Serbian sample of North African heritage. I just took a look on YFull and was impressed by the number of samples. Based on what I see there, I'd say it's a sure bet that the real dates for V25 are far older than those that YFull has assigned. I'm sadly ignorant on the level of Beaker activity in North Africa and need to read up on it.

Yes this sample V78 North Africa from Algeria , berber Auras this subclade in North Africa V78 is very complicated history because isn't there any cluster North African under this subclade maybe EEF maybe Bell-Beaker maybe Roman maybe Vandals
for you i think is more clear because you from Europe
my subclade V25 at least has cluster North Africa and sample Serbia its confirmed this subclade is ancient in North Africa

[JonikW]

Yes i remember this sample EEF back a 7500 year old from North Morocco 1/4 North Africa ancestry and 3/4 European ( EEF) its belong a HV0a* , i will trying to contact with team Yfull and i hope to added it
for your subclade V78 in North Africa i think its very complicated to know history this subclade maybe EEF maybe Bell-beaker maybe Roman maybe Vandals 
for my subclade V25 its seems to me this Subclade in North Africa back a era Bell-beaker this subclade very diversity in North Africa and in last study about samples from serbia there sample ancient back a era Roman ( between 100~200 CE) its was 100% North Africa ancestry 
of course mtDNA Haplogroup V its mean for us a lot because we are belong a this mtDNA Haplogroup

Thanks for this and I'm still pondering away. It's intriguing to think my direct maternal line was quite possibly EEF then Beaker then IA Celt and/or Germanic before ending up where I can trace it to in Wales. The other V78 tester will have their own story of course that may well involve a Beaker heritage shared with me and potentially other cultures too after the earlier EEF. I've just realised I've been calling the tester Tunisian in recent posts when they're actually Algerian. Very sloppy of me.

The really interesting thing is the date of our split. I guess that only aDNA might help although coming across V78 would be like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack and I'm still concerned that the current studies wouldn't even identify the subclade if they found it. It's possible the two of us went our separate ways on our V78 lines in any of the EEF, Beaker or Vandal/Germanic cultures as you say, or even perhaps with the Normans as I mentioned earlier, although I seriously doubt the date was anywhere near that late. 

I like your theory for V25 and I'm fascinated about that Serbian sample of North African heritage. I just took a look on YFull and was impressed by the number of samples. Based on what I see there, I'd say it's a sure bet that the real dates for V25 are far older than those that YFull has assigned. I'm sadly ignorant on the level of Beaker activity in North Africa and need to read up on it.

Yes this sample V78 North Africa from Algeria , berber Auras this subclade in North Africa V78 is very complicated history because isn't there any cluster North African under this subclade maybe EEF maybe Bell-Beaker maybe Roman maybe Vandals
for you i think is more clear because you from Europe
my subclade V25 at least has cluster North Africa and sample Serbia its confirmed this subclade is ancient in North Africa

That was incredibly good luck with the ancient V25 sample Capsian. So good that you have confirmation of an early North African connection. It seems to me that it's rare to get something that rigorous with ancient mtDNA. It's all so much more straightforward with Y although both are equally important for many of us here. I'm just a little frustrated by the massive difference in the evidence I have for my uniparental markers. In the Y case I have a very clear likely path through time. The best I can say about my V side is that my foremothers will have once been early farmers and then members of European successor cultures of whatever kind.