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An attempt at deep West Eurasian phylogeny
#46
(10-23-2023, 07:23 PM)Quint Wrote: Oase-1 may be contaminated, but why was Salkhit left out? Both may be relevant to the origins of ANE.


Please be patient and more tolerant all of you guys.
Kale is the one who started this discussion. We have it since AG forum, then it was in the previos version before we moved here.  So let Kale to decide who should be moderated and who may contribute.  G25 allows us to do some visualization. I can do similar visualization by using other tools.  So I have some idea what archi is trying to show us, but the way he is doing it is not much satisfactory. So I understand PopGenist82   too.
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#47
IMO the affinity lies between Dzudzuana & Bacho MUP, via a 'West Eurasian' group which is parallel to but not from Kostenki/ Sunghir.
In other words, the recently hypothesised 'proto-Gravettian migration' is not from Eastern Europe, but southeastern Europe. 

Bacho MUP then contributes to Vestonice Gravettians, as do the Kostenki/Sunghir group.

add. something like this
[Image: OHAvUEx.png]
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#48
(10-27-2023, 12:11 AM)TanTin Wrote: G25 allows us to do some visualization. I can do similar visualization by using other tools.  So I have some idea what archi is trying to show us, but the way he is doing it is not much satisfactory.


PCA from any sources will give the same picture if you place the same samples on it. The source files are not important, they set the same samples.

It is clearly visible on it that Dzuzuana/Кotias are again closest to GTAVETTIANS, but NOT any WHG, therefore inadequate personalities are furious. Because their world on the illusions invented by them is destroyed.
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#49
In F4 stats they prefer WHG over every other West Eurasian population by a lot.
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Czech_Vestonice16 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00358 6.82e-4 5.24 1.58e-7
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Russia_Kostenki14 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00505 6.73e-4 7.49 6.66e-14
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Russia_Sunghir3.SG Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00476 6.33e-4 7.52 5.29e-14
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Bulgaria_BachoKiro_MiddlePaleolithic Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00461 6.83e-4 6.75 1.52e-11
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Belgium_UP_GoyetQ116_1 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00461 7.77e-4 5.93 3.05e-9
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Romania_PesteraMuierii_EUP Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00410 6.21e-4 6.60 4.06e-11
They even hardly prefer AHG over WHG surprisingly. That could be caused by some other admixture in AHG or perhaps Kotias has more West Eurasian related to WHG than AHG does.
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Turkey_Epipaleolithic Italy_Mesolithic.SG -5.02e-4 6.48e-4 -0.774 0.439
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#50
(10-27-2023, 11:49 AM)Norfern-Ostrobothnian Wrote: In F4 stats they prefer WHG over every other West Eurasian population by a lot.
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Czech_Vestonice16 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00358 6.82e-4  5.24 1.58e-7
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Russia_Kostenki14 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00505 6.73e-4  7.49 6.66e-14
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Russia_Sunghir3.SG Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00476 6.33e-4  7.52 5.29e-14
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Bulgaria_BachoKiro_MiddlePaleolithic Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00461 6.83e-4  6.75 1.52e-11
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Belgium_UP_GoyetQ116_1 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00461 7.77e-4  5.93 3.05e-9
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Romania_PesteraMuierii_EUP Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00410 6.21e-4  6.60 4.06e-11
They even hardly prefer AHG over WHG surprisingly. That could be caused by some other admixture in AHG or perhaps Kotias has more West Eurasian related to WHG than AHG does.
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Turkey_Epipaleolithic Italy_Mesolithic.SG -5.02e-4 6.48e-4 -0.774 0.439

These samples have nothing to do at all, among them there is practically NO Gravettian, Czech_Vestonice16 is included in the same cluster with Russia_Sunghir. They are far from Georgia_Kotias_UP. Close to Georgia_Kotias_UP is (true) Gravettians Belgium, Iberia, Czech Krems, but you have no true Gravettian.
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#51
The GOY009 sample I have is pretty low coverage it seems
But NEO283 still doesn't prefer any of the other Gravettians over WHG
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Austria_KremsWA3 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00332 9.15e-4 3.62 2.92e-4
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Austria_Krems1_1 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00247 6.91e-4 3.58 3.47e-4
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Italy_South_HG_Ostuni1 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00255 8.46e-4 3.01 0.00258
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Italy_UP_Gravettian Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00216 7.14e-4 3.02 0.00250
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Czech_Vestonice5 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00292 6.60e-4 4.43 9.34e-6
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Czech_Vestonice6 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00295 6.75e-4 4.38 1.20e-5
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Czech_Vestonice43 Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00392 0.00114 3.43 5.98e-4
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP France_Ormesson_UP_Gravettian Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00409 7.66e-4 5.34 9.21e-8
Chimp.REF Georgia_Kotias_UP Spain_Serinya_UP_Gravettian Italy_Mesolithic.SG 0.00313 9.72e-4 3.22 0.00128
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#52
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(10-27-2023, 12:33 PM)Norfern-Ostrobothnian Wrote: But NEO283 still doesn't prefer any of the other Gravettians over WHG

This does not mean that WHG prefer NEO283 compared to Gravettians. There other samples are not the same that you use.

Distance to: Italy_Mesolithic.SG:R15.SG
0.32295789 Gravettian_BEL:GOY009
0.33936791 CZE_Krems_UP:I2484
0.34755509 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483
0.34883109 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge
0.35458946 CZE_Vestonice16_MUP:Vestonice16
0.36369953 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653
0.36793093 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ376-19
0.36873394 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653_merge
0.37242199 BEL_GoyetQ116-1_EUP:Q116-1
0.38621697 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir3
0.39003273 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ53-1
0.39598687 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir1
0.39913932 Gravettian_BEL:GOY001
0.39945632 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir2
0.40000952 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir4
0.40039752 Gravettian_BEL:GOY014
0.41244575 Gravettian_Iberia:GER002
0.41272267 RUS_Kostenki14_UP:Kostenki14
0.41547432 GEO_Kotias_Klde_UP:NEO283__BC_23685
0.42254627 ROU_UP:Cioclovina1
0.43379549 GEO_Dzudzuana_UP:S2949
0.45323777 Gravettian?_BEL_o:GOY007
0.45484299 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana1
0.45685549 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana2
0.47834118 RUS_MA1_MUP:MA1

Distance to: Italy_Mesolithic.SG:R11.SG
0.30687999 Gravettian_BEL:GOY009
0.32479211 CZE_Krems_UP:I2484
0.33293938 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483
0.33421326 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge
0.33979703 CZE_Vestonice16_MUP:Vestonice16
0.34798941 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653
0.35313145 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ376-19
0.35341864 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653_merge
0.35645916 BEL_GoyetQ116-1_EUP:Q116-1
0.37083161 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir3
0.37666549 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ53-1
0.38038399 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir1
0.38416099 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir2
0.38431180 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir4
0.38578510 Gravettian_BEL:GOY014
0.38710402 Gravettian_BEL:GOY001
0.39704808 RUS_Kostenki14_UP:Kostenki14
0.39861365 Gravettian_Iberia:GER002
0.40120923 GEO_Kotias_Klde_UP:NEO283__BC_23685
0.40878176 ROU_UP:Cioclovina1
0.42042648 GEO_Dzudzuana_UP:S2949
0.43948889 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana1
0.43977681 Gravettian?_BEL_o:GOY007
0.44133668 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana2
0.46628089 RUS_MA1_MUP:MA1

Distance to: Italy_Mesolithic.SG:R7.SG
0.31299877 Gravettian_BEL:GOY009
0.33100399 CZE_Krems_UP:I2484
0.33917748 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483
0.34043016 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge
0.34649516 CZE_Vestonice16_MUP:Vestonice16
0.35487379 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653
0.35970738 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ376-19
0.36010184 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653_merge
0.36371070 BEL_GoyetQ116-1_EUP:Q116-1
0.37746195 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir3
0.38082312 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ53-1
0.38699525 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir1
0.39021266 Gravettian_BEL:GOY001
0.39058024 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir2
0.39116826 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir4
0.39161443 Gravettian_BEL:GOY014
0.40302237 Gravettian_Iberia:GER002
0.40354888 RUS_Kostenki14_UP:Kostenki14
0.40658002 GEO_Kotias_Klde_UP:NEO283__BC_23685
0.41378694 ROU_UP:Cioclovina1
0.42518996 GEO_Dzudzuana_UP:S2949
0.44360330 Gravettian?_BEL_o:GOY007
0.44714024 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana1
0.44856270 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana2
0.47080310 RUS_MA1_MUP:MA1

Distance to: LUX_Loschbour_WHG:I0001
0.29481415 Gravettian_BEL:GOY009
0.31206146 CZE_Krems_UP:I2484
0.31963960 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483
0.32115979 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge
0.32733996 CZE_Vestonice16_MUP:Vestonice16
0.33646611 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653
0.33871031 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ376-19
0.34176423 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653_merge
0.34584863 BEL_GoyetQ116-1_EUP:Q116-1
0.35788349 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir3
0.35953738 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ53-1
0.36715255 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir1
0.36907348 Gravettian_BEL:GOY001
0.37076504 Gravettian_BEL:GOY014
0.37088689 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir2
0.37216805 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir4
0.38141242 Gravettian_Iberia:GER002
0.38496629 RUS_Kostenki14_UP:Kostenki14
0.38713933 GEO_Kotias_Klde_UP:NEO283__BC_23685
0.39257637 ROU_UP:Cioclovina1
0.40527962 GEO_Dzudzuana_UP:S2949
0.42085672 Gravettian?_BEL_o:GOY007
0.42740491 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana1
0.42973376 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana2
0.45156527 RUS_MA1_MUP:MA1

Distance to: WHG:Rochedane
0.26214776 Gravettian_BEL:GOY009
0.27959017 CZE_Krems_UP:I2484
0.28729022 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483
0.28868288 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge
0.29483019 CZE_Vestonice16_MUP:Vestonice16
0.30427457 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653
0.30626083 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ376-19
0.30939584 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653_merge
0.31509058 BEL_GoyetQ116-1_EUP:Q116-1
0.32608751 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir3
0.32923236 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ53-1
0.33663002 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir1
0.33923771 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir2
0.33940072 Gravettian_BEL:GOY001
0.33980175 Gravettian_BEL:GOY014
0.34004402 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir4
0.34965320 Gravettian_Iberia:GER002
0.35203857 RUS_Kostenki14_UP:Kostenki14
0.35387599 GEO_Kotias_Klde_UP:NEO283__BC_23685
0.36098884 ROU_UP:Cioclovina1
0.37210773 GEO_Dzudzuana_UP:S2949
0.39481836 Gravettian?_BEL_o:GOY007
0.39935554 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana1
0.40101673 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana2
0.42730645 RUS_MA1_MUP:MA1

Distance to: WHG:I1875
0.26546579 Gravettian_BEL:GOY009
0.28342832 CZE_Krems_UP:I2484
0.28939038 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483
0.29083914 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge
0.29774710 CZE_Vestonice16_MUP:Vestonice16
0.30038606 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ376-19
0.30654094 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653
0.31105088 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653_merge
0.31747426 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ53-1
0.31900256 BEL_GoyetQ116-1_EUP:Q116-1
0.32773621 Gravettian_BEL:GOY001
0.32820713 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir3
0.33325983 Gravettian_BEL:GOY014
0.33683682 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir1
0.34079759 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir2
0.34209669 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir4
0.34658041 Gravettian_Iberia:GER002
0.35305918 GEO_Kotias_Klde_UP:NEO283__BC_23685
0.35543573 RUS_Kostenki14_UP:Kostenki14
0.35889538 ROU_UP:Cioclovina1
0.37148164 GEO_Dzudzuana_UP:S2949
0.39086629 Gravettian?_BEL_o:GOY007
0.39932929 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana1
0.40225831 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana2
0.41830900 RUS_MA1_MUP:MA1

Distance to: ITA_Villabruna_LUP:Villabruna
0.26664662 Gravettian_BEL:GOY009
0.28417586 CZE_Krems_UP:I2484
0.29126513 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483
0.29267804 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge
0.29975845 CZE_Vestonice16_MUP:Vestonice16
0.30771036 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ376-19
0.30846477 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653
0.31343868 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653_merge
0.32001248 BEL_GoyetQ116-1_EUP:Q116-1
0.32758755 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ53-1
0.33038851 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir3
0.33699109 Gravettian_BEL:GOY001
0.33978326 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir1
0.34033804 Gravettian_BEL:GOY014
0.34301408 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir2
0.34442654 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir4
0.35173134 Gravettian_Iberia:GER002
0.35637194 RUS_Kostenki14_UP:Kostenki14
0.35666399 GEO_Kotias_Klde_UP:NEO283__BC_23685
0.36407242 ROU_UP:Cioclovina1
0.37558139 GEO_Dzudzuana_UP:S2949
0.39726267 Gravettian?_BEL_o:GOY007
0.40281241 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana1
0.40488329 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana2
0.42659274 RUS_MA1_MUP:MA1

------------------------------------

Even after the exclusion of Turkish samples and the expansion of the list, none of the WHG appeared.

Distance to: GEO_Dzudzuana_UP:S2949
0.06768332 Gravettian_Iberia:GER002
0.08119160 ROU_UP:Cioclovina1
0.10788219 Gravettian_BEL:GOY014
0.11218029 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ376-19
0.11480235 Gravettian_BEL:GOY001
0.12613611 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ53-1
0.12747572 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483
0.12748984 RUS_Kostenki14_UP:Kostenki14
0.12769045 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge
0.12782942 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir2
0.13130924 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir4
0.13222772 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653_merge
0.13473856 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653
0.13507807 CZE_Krems_UP:I2484
0.13614398 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir3
0.13744616 CZE_Vestonice16_MUP:Vestonice16
0.13810614 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir1
0.14705644 Gravettian_BEL:GOY009
0.16623003 BEL_GoyetQ116-1_EUP:Q116-1
0.17205482 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG:ZBC_IPB001
0.17337182 Levant_PPNB:I1707
0.17424414 Levant_PPNB_contam:I1704
0.17910273 Levant_PPNB:BAJ001
0.18812970 Levant_PPNB:I1710
0.19152966 Gravettian?_BEL_o:GOY007
0.19341982 Levant_PPNC:I1699
0.19418555 Levant_PPNB:I0867
0.20393478 Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I0861
0.20651216 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana2
0.20779721 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana1
0.21317057 BEL_GoyetQ2_LUP:GoyetQ2
0.21825246 Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I1072_d
0.22697717 Levant_Natufian_contam:I1072
0.24480039 CZE_UP:zku002_scaled
0.25349407 Iberia_ElMiron_LUP:ElMiron
0.25992558 GEO_CHG:KK1
0.26160060 GEO_Kotias_Meso:NEO281
0.27064655 RUS_Ust_Ishim_IUP:Ust_Ishim
0.27265934 Salkhit_EUP
0.27541386 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1290
0.27623058 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954
0.27822486 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_IUP:CC7-335
0.27964808 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1947
0.28023049 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1945
0.28062772 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1949
0.29362521 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_IUP:BB7-240
0.30401000 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_IUP:F6-620
0.30602979 RUS_MA1_MUP:MA1
0.30740982 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_IUP:F6-620_noUDG
0.32415559 Iberia_Northeast_FUP_Azilian:BAL051

Distance to: GEO_Kotias_Klde_UP:NEO283__BC_23685
0.06794820 Gravettian_Iberia:GER002
0.07143956 ROU_UP:Cioclovina1
0.09447307 Gravettian_BEL:GOY014
0.09494047 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ376-19
0.10610161 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir2
0.10619642 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir4
0.10641251 RUS_Kostenki14_UP:Kostenki14
0.10672011 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge
0.10713393 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483
0.10884114 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653_merge
0.11197291 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_MUP:BK-1653
0.11390745 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir3
0.11557754 RUS_Sunghir_UP:Sunghir1
0.11726066 CZE_Krems_UP:I2484
0.11747912 CZE_Vestonice16_MUP:Vestonice16
0.11856195 Gravettian_BEL:GOY001
0.12117692 Gravettian_BEL:GOY009
0.12297865 Gravettian_BEL:GoyetQ53-1
0.14206822 BEL_GoyetQ116-1_EUP:Q116-1
0.18045481 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG:ZBC_IPB001
0.18901118 Gravettian?_BEL_o:GOY007
0.19063928 BEL_GoyetQ2_LUP:GoyetQ2
0.19080927 Levant_PPNB_contam:I1704
0.19173257 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana2
0.19217485 Levant_PPNB:I1707
0.19443780 RUS_Yana_MUP:Yana1
0.19720066 Levant_PPNB:BAJ001
0.20028761 Levant_PPNB:I1710
0.20795964 Levant_PPNB:I0867
0.21115140 Levant_PPNC:I1699
0.21307139 Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I0861
0.23100610 Iberia_ElMiron_LUP:ElMiron
0.23126672 Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I1072_d
0.23499703 CZE_UP:zku002_scaled
0.23923490 Levant_Natufian_contam:I1072
0.25930999 RUS_Ust_Ishim_IUP:Ust_Ishim
0.26149536 Salkhit_EUP
0.26592849 GEO_CHG:KK1
0.26641988 GEO_Kotias_Meso:NEO281
0.26715215 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_IUP:CC7-335
0.28061645 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1290
0.28196458 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_IUP:BB7-240
0.28234135 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1949
0.28381174 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954
0.28402548 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1947
0.28625606 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1945
0.29301913 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_IUP:F6-620
0.29621725 BGR_Bacho_Kiro_IUP:F6-620_noUDG
0.29634587 RUS_MA1_MUP:MA1
0.30373794 Iberia_Northeast_FUP_Azilian:BAL051
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#53
That's simply because WHG has drift that pulls them away from other populations in G25. So does EEF too and Dzudzuana to a lesser extent.
Not to mention that since G25 is built for modern populations, it will try and differentiate EEF and WHG since they form a lot of the West Eurasian variation today while other UP populations don't really contribute much to the modern variation at all. Also WHG is partially Gravettian and Dzudzuana has some other ancestry that pulls it away from all other West Eurasians so they aren't simply one and the same population.
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#54
(10-27-2023, 01:23 PM)Norfern-Ostrobothnian Wrote: Dzudzuana to a lesser extent.

Dzudzuana _UP and Kotias_Klde_UP is one and that population. Therefore, Dzudzuna was not released until Kotias_Klde_UP was released, because it is very similar to a just mechanical mixture of Gravettians and the Middle East, they simply thought that it was contamination . After the appearance of Kotias_Klde_UP , it became clear that this is not contamination. So there is no distortion here, just these samples are not related to WHG.
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#55
PCA of the oldest samples in G25 spreadsheet (with 6 umap clusters):

[Image: P3AGKRM.png]
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#56
(10-27-2023, 04:55 AM)PopGenist82 Wrote: IMO the affinity lies between Dzudzuana & Bacho MUP, via a 'West Eurasian' group which is parallel to but not from Kostenki/ Sunghir.
In other words, the recently hypothesised 'proto-Gravettian migration' is not from Eastern Europe, but southeastern Europe. 

Bacho MUP then contributes to Vestonice Gravettians, as do the Kostenki/Sunghir group.

add. something like this
[Image: OHAvUEx.png]

Those 0's there mean you're not going deep enough on those branches.
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#57
(10-27-2023, 04:11 PM)Chad Wrote:
(10-27-2023, 04:55 AM)PopGenist82 Wrote: IMO the affinity lies between Dzudzuana & Bacho MUP, via a 'West Eurasian' group which is parallel to but not from Kostenki/ Sunghir.
In other words, the recently hypothesised 'proto-Gravettian migration' is not from Eastern Europe, but southeastern Europe. 

Bacho MUP then contributes to Vestonice Gravettians, as do the Kostenki/Sunghir group.

add. something like this
[Image: OHAvUEx.png]

Those 0's there mean you're not going deep enough on those branches.

Ok. What does “not going deep enough on branches’ mean ?
Branch off earlier than a common node ?
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#58
Yes, branch it off earlier. Either within the same branch, or, on its own, like we do with basal Eurasian. I'll drop a couple graphs here later, as an example.
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#59
(10-27-2023, 02:16 PM)ph2ter Wrote: PCA of the oldest samples in G25 spreadsheet (with 6 umap clusters):

[Image: P3AGKRM.png]

The PCA which I posted earlier was a PCA projection on all ancient samples (I missed that fact).

Here is PCA without projection:

[Image: aCVUfuU.png]
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#60
The same number of umap clusters as on the first PCA:

[Image: nm3sgfl.png]
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