Late Neolithic similarity maps

[Rodoorn]

 
What is honestly quit confusion. Because there is overlap in the description between the yellow and brown one,  Lusatian and Urnfield, wiki  Lusatian:"It formed part of the Urnfield systems" and in your umap gives  genetically the same overlap.

You suppose that blue and yellow show overlap....I can't get that......

Because they have indeed Baltic drift but the thing is that they also lean on to HG isn't? See the pull to the Doggerlander on the umap!

And when the controversy is blue/yellow contra brown area, than the "border confrontation"  would not made sense doesn't it? Because this seems like a border between yellow and blue.

It is really hard to group the Tollense samples.
I made MBA similarity maps for them and I am still not sure for their battles sides:

I found the umap quit well in this respect. In wondered when there is a unique element in the game a very located factor like in casu the supposed high Ertebølle HG, but this unique factor has no resemblance in the MBA elsewhere  (although you see this a bit with WEZ 58 and 59 and the bottleneck of Denmark) than these maps are less informative than the clustering in an u-map doesn't it?

[Rodoorn]

@ph2ter thanks for the actions by the way!!! As we speak about MBA how do behave Rise94 and Rise98 from MBA perspective?

[ph2ter]

 
What is honestly quit confusion. Because there is overlap in the description between the yellow and brown one,  Lusatian and Urnfield, wiki  Lusatian:"It formed part of the Urnfield systems" and in your umap gives  genetically the same overlap.

You suppose that blue and yellow show overlap....I can't get that......

Because they have indeed Baltic drift but the thing is that they also lean on to HG isn't? See the pull to the Doggerlander on the umap!

And when the controversy is blue/yellow contra brown area, than the "border confrontation"  would not made sense doesn't it? Because this seems like a border between yellow and blue.

It is really hard to group the Tollense samples.
I made MBA similarity maps for them and I am still not sure for their battles sides:

I found the umap quit well in this respect. In wondered when there is a unique element in the game a very located factor like in casu the supposed high Ertebølle HG, but this unique factor has no resemblance in the MBA elsewhere  (although you see this a bit with WEZ 58 and 59 and the bottleneck of Denmark) than these maps are less informative than the clustering in an u-map doesn't it?

The PCA with cluster 1 and cluster 2 is not umap. The PCA posted before 'the PCA with cluster1 and cluster 2' has clusters according to umap but with the exception of Tollense samples. I clustered Tollense samples according to PCA position (with the ellipsoids).

[Rodoorn]

 
What is honestly quit confusion. Because there is overlap in the description between the yellow and brown one,  Lusatian and Urnfield, wiki  Lusatian:"It formed part of the Urnfield systems" and in your umap gives  genetically the same overlap.

You suppose that blue and yellow show overlap....I can't get that......

Because they have indeed Baltic drift but the thing is that they also lean on to HG isn't? See the pull to the Doggerlander on the umap!

And when the controversy is blue/yellow contra brown area, than the "border confrontation"  would not made sense doesn't it? Because this seems like a border between yellow and blue.

It is really hard to group the Tollense samples.
I made MBA similarity maps for them and I am still not sure for their battles sides:

I found the umap quit well in this respect. In wondered when there is a unique element in the game a very located factor like in casu the supposed high Ertebølle HG, but this unique factor has no resemblance in the MBA elsewhere  (although you see this a bit with WEZ 58 and 59 and the bottleneck of Denmark) than these maps are less informative than the clustering in an u-map doesn't it?

The PCA with cluster 1 and cluster 2 is not umap. The PCA posted before 'the PCA with cluster1 and cluster 2' has clusters according to umap but with the exception of Tollense samples. I clustered Tollense samples according to PCA position (with the ellipsoids).

Thanks for the clarification!



Nevertheless clear result, Welzin locals (1) and Urnfield (2) (you called Celts) newcomers? About 1250 BC and obviously the newcomers were turned of. So this became the border between NBA and Lusatian cultures.....



Recent Paper:
"The ultimate expansion of the Urnfield complex reached many (sub)cultures and regional groups, including the Lusatian culture, which spread over much of Poland, Slovakia, northern Bohemia, and eastern Germany."

The expansion got hold around Welzin!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...9X21003023

[Dewsloth]

Can you run this Swedish "LN" DF19 sample?
SWE_N_Vattenledningen:NEO52__BC_1816,0.117238,0.105615,0.075801,0.071706,0.033545,0.025379,0.005405,0.017076,-0.006749,-0.001458,-0.00682,-0.005545,-0.019326,-0.009358,0.030537,0.016441,0.002477,0.007221,-0.005908,-0.00025,-0.00287,-0.00643,-0.006779,0.020364,0.003353

Here is NEO52 MBA map:

Thank you!  This guy is fascinating:  
If both his SNP calls and carbon-14 dating are right, FTDNA's SNP age estimates are off by about 500-600 years.

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-Z17123/story

R-Z17123's paternal line was formed when it branched off from the ancestor R-Z17125 and the rest of mankind around 1250 BCE.

One skeletal sample was 14Cdated with the result 1943–1748 BC, corresponding to the Late Neolithic in Scandinavian chronology. In
the grave filling, scattered artefacts were found in the form of two flint flakes and a fossil sea urchin.
One sample, NEO052, from A430 was analysed. The sample was a tooth from the individual found in the grave N° 430

It's a double grave so it's possible the c14 is from a bone that was not part of the same body as the tooth...

[ph2ter]

@ph2ter thanks for the actions by the way!!! As we speak about MBA how do behave Rise94 and Rise98 from MBA perspective?

Very different:

[Rodoorn]

@ph2ter thanks for the actions by the way!!! As we speak about MBA how do behave Rise94 and Rise98 from MBA perspective?

Very different:

great thanks maestro!

[ph2ter]

Several MBA maps of my interest:





This sample may be modern, but I am not quite sure:


This is definitely modern sample :

[ph2ter]

WHG, EEF and Steppe levels on MBA map:

[ph2ter]

A few more MBA maps:

[leonardo]

A few more MBA maps:

I don't recall: is there some BS drift in the Singen sample? The heat map admix is located in an area where M458 could have wll been located even prior. Think of the Brodzica sample. Can you do a heat map for that one, poz554?

[ph2ter]

I don't recall: is there some BS drift in the Singen sample? The heat map admix is located in an area where M458 could have wll been located even prior. Think of the Brodzica sample. Can you do a heat map for that one, poz554?

Yes, MX265 has BS drift.

[leonardo]

It appears that Singen's BS drift comes from the Trzciniec Culture, not far from the location of the oldest known M458 sample, poz544.

[Sailgios]

Hello Ph2ter, there are a few west Iberian (Portuguese) BA samples which you could use to complement the map - or future ones - although I am unfamiliar with their quality:

Code:

Portugal_MBA.SG:MonteGato104_noUDG.SG,0.122929,0.145221,0.064111,-0.005491,0.067705,-0.008088,-0.00658,0.009461,0.043973,0.065241,-0.001299,0.014837,-0.026462,-0.022432,0.0057,0.010077,0.024251,-0.003801,-0.001131,-0.006503,0.00861,0.003833,-0.013804,-0.020123,0.001557
Portugal_MBA.SG:TV3831_noUDG.SG,0.122929,0.153345,0.050157,-0.007106,0.064935,-0.018128,0,0.001615,0.048063,0.059956,0.005196,0.005995,-0.020069,-0.017203,0.007057,0.007292,-0.006389,0.004434,-0.001508,-0.000875,0.003119,0.006801,-0.019473,-0.020967,0.002395
Portugal_MBA.SG:TV32032extra_noUDG.SG,0.118376,0.161469,0.059208,-0.018734,0.068628,-0.008088,0.000235,0.003692,0.041109,0.059591,0.001949,0.012889,-0.029881,-0.010322,0.003393,-0.01485,-0.01708,0.003674,-0.009176,-0.003126,0.006863,-0.000742,-0.017501,-0.025907,-0.008861
Portugal_MBA.SG:ValeOuro10207_noUDG.SG,0.117238,0.156392,0.05242,-0.001615,0.06432,0.000279,-0.014571,0.010846,0.043564,0.058498,0.007795,0.015286,-0.002676,0.003028,0.005972,0.005569,-0.000261,-0.00152,0.015964,-0.002001,-0.004866,0.004081,-0.004683,-0.021208,-0.001197

[ph2ter]

Hello Ph2ter, there are a few west Iberian (Portuguese) BA samples which you could use to complement the map - or future ones - although I am unfamiliar with their quality:

Code:

Portugal_MBA.SG:MonteGato104_noUDG.SG,0.122929,0.145221,0.064111,-0.005491,0.067705,-0.008088,-0.00658,0.009461,0.043973,0.065241,-0.001299,0.014837,-0.026462,-0.022432,0.0057,0.010077,0.024251,-0.003801,-0.001131,-0.006503,0.00861,0.003833,-0.013804,-0.020123,0.001557
Portugal_MBA.SG:TV3831_noUDG.SG,0.122929,0.153345,0.050157,-0.007106,0.064935,-0.018128,0,0.001615,0.048063,0.059956,0.005196,0.005995,-0.020069,-0.017203,0.007057,0.007292,-0.006389,0.004434,-0.001508,-0.000875,0.003119,0.006801,-0.019473,-0.020967,0.002395
Portugal_MBA.SG:TV32032extra_noUDG.SG,0.118376,0.161469,0.059208,-0.018734,0.068628,-0.008088,0.000235,0.003692,0.041109,0.059591,0.001949,0.012889,-0.029881,-0.010322,0.003393,-0.01485,-0.01708,0.003674,-0.009176,-0.003126,0.006863,-0.000742,-0.017501,-0.025907,-0.008861
Portugal_MBA.SG:ValeOuro10207_noUDG.SG,0.117238,0.156392,0.05242,-0.001615,0.06432,0.000279,-0.014571,0.010846,0.043564,0.058498,0.007795,0.015286,-0.002676,0.003028,0.005972,0.005569,-0.000261,-0.00152,0.015964,-0.002001,-0.004866,0.004081,-0.004683,-0.021208,-0.001197

It is interesting that you are more similar to Adriatic MBA than Iberian MBA (probably because of the higher level of Steppe):