Late Neolithic similarity maps

[ph2ter]

Here I tried to represent similarity to Neolithic populations on a map with Late Neolithic reference populations:

[leonardo]

The WHG heat map is really unique, the way the hottest spots diverge. Obviously the sea has something to do with it. Some kind of Bell Beaker ancestors?

[ph2ter]

All merged:

[ph2ter]

The WHG heat map is really unique, the way the  hottest spots diverge. Obviously the sea has something to do with it. Some kind of Bell Beaker ancestors?

I wouldn't say. WHG map shows the remnants of WHG populations after neolithization with EEF populations from the south.

[lukpl]

Some say WHG remnants were also around Carpathians, but not sure it is true.

[ph2ter]

Some say WHG remnants were also around Carpathians, but not sure it is true.

ROU_C_o__GB sample is half WHG 3500 BCE.
Definitely WHG was there somewhere.

[ph2ter]

Here I made several LN maps for the oldest I2-L621 samples and for Spiginas2 and Vatya_o:

[leonardo]

Spiginas2 and Vatya_o have a similar heat map. Is it possible that haplogroups like R-CTS1211 and I2a-223 were already blending this early in the BA?

[ph2ter]

Spiginas2 and Vatya_o have a similar heat map. Is it possible that haplogroups like R-CTS1211 and I2a-223 were already blending this early in the BA?

It certainly happened this early:

[leonardo]

Spiginas2 and Vatya_o have a similar heat map. Is it possible that haplogroups like R-CTS1211 and I2a-223 were already blending this early in the BA?

It certainly happened this early:

Not to get your thread off track, doesn't this then impact the whole concept of the Slavic ethnogenesis, over 2 millennia later, having to have all been situated in one place, like the Pripyat marshes or even the Kiev Culture? Specifically, I am referring to the patrilineal lines that created the Slavs, like M458,Y3120 and CTS1211. This admixture was already apparently present long before. Even the Brodzica samples of M458 are 7 centuries away.

[ph2ter]

Spiginas2 and Vatya_o have a similar heat map. Is it possible that haplogroups like R-CTS1211 and I2a-223 were already blending this early in the BA?

It certainly happened this early:

Not to get your thread off track, doesn't this then impact the whole concept of the Slavic ethnogenesis, over 2 millennia later, having to have all been situated in one place, like the Pripyat marshes or even the Kiev Culture? Specifically, I am referring to the patrilineal lines that created the Slavs, like M458,Y3120 and CTS1211. This admixture was already apparently present long before. Even the Brodzica samples of M458 are 7 centuries away.

We haven't found a single case of Y3120 older than 700 CE yet.

[leonardo]

Spiginas2 and Vatya_o have a similar heat map. Is it possible that haplogroups like R-CTS1211 and I2a-223 were already blending this early in the BA?

It certainly happened this early:

Not to get your thread off track, doesn't this then impact the whole concept of the Slavic ethnogenesis, over 2 millennia later, having to have all been situated in one place, like the Pripyat marshes or even the Kiev Culture? Specifically, I am referring to the patrilineal lines that created the Slavs, like M458,Y3120 and CTS1211. This admixture was already apparently present long before. Even the Brodzica samples of M458 are 7 centuries away.

We haven't found a single case of Y3120 older than 700 CE yet.

I apologize for the misspeak. I should have simply said I2a and its downstream branches. Regardless, that doesn't negate the essence of my post, which is this admixture took place long, long ago and therefore samples found afterwards should not assume to have been sourced from a particular area - and thus are "outliers" - simply because they have BS drift. That admixture happened long ago and likely far away from the eventual Baltic homeland, according to your heat maps.

[ph2ter]

Spiginas2 and Vatya_o have a similar heat map. Is it possible that haplogroups like R-CTS1211 and I2a-223 were already blending this early in the BA?

It certainly happened this early:

Not to get your thread off track, doesn't this then impact the whole concept of the Slavic ethnogenesis, over 2 millennia later, having to have all been situated in one place, like the Pripyat marshes or even the Kiev Culture? Specifically, I am referring to the patrilineal lines that created the Slavs, like M458,Y3120 and CTS1211. This admixture was already apparently present long before. Even the Brodzica samples of M458 are 7 centuries away.

We haven't found a single case of Y3120 older than 700 CE yet.

I apologize for the misspeak. I should have simply said I2a and its downstream branches. Regardless, that doesn't negate the essence of my post, which is this admixture took place long, long ago and therefore samples found afterwards should not assume to have been sourced from a particular area - and thus are "outliers" - simply because they have BS drift. That admixture happened long ago and likely far away from the eventual Baltic homeland, according to your heat maps.

The admixture of R1a and I2a obviously took place along the northern slopes of the Carpatians from about 2000 BCE.

[Rodoorn]

The WHG heat map is really unique, the way the  hottest spots diverge. Obviously the sea has something to do with it. Some kind of Bell Beaker ancestors?

Just a hunch for this WHG cluster:



Ok the pictures are not perfectly 1:1 nevertheless the Ertebölle people, partly founding for the TRB on the North German Plain have a resemblance in the distribution :



https://adnaera.com/2018/09/09/a-first-a...roup-adna/

[ph2ter]

The WHG heat map is really unique, the way the  hottest spots diverge. Obviously the sea has something to do with it. Some kind of Bell Beaker ancestors?

Just a hunch for this WHG cluster:



Ok the pictures are not perfectly 1:1 nevertheless the Ertebölle people, partly founding for the TRB on the North German Plain have a resemblance in the distribution :



https://adnaera.com/2018/09/09/a-first-a...roup-adna/

The resemblance is obvious, although some areas are unsampled and my map is interpolation.

Here is more detailed and partially updated map: