Late Neolithic similarity maps

[Rodoorn]

The WHG heat map is really unique, the way the  hottest spots diverge. Obviously the sea has something to do with it. Some kind of Bell Beaker ancestors?

Just a hunch for this WHG cluster:



Ok the pictures are not perfectly 1:1 nevertheless the Ertebölle people, partly founding for the TRB on the North German Plain have a resemblance in the distribution :



https://adnaera.com/2018/09/09/a-first-a...roup-adna/

The resemblance is obvious, although some areas are unsampled and my map is interpolation.

Here is more detailed and partially updated map:

Thanks Ph2ter, yes of course it's an interpolation, and geographic it's not perfect, Blatterhöhle is somewhat too NW wards, and the Doggerland is in fact Swifterbant HG that was related to Ertebölle, and has a somewhat more NE wards spread etc. And I guess that we can make such an exercition for Mecklenburg-Vorpommern....

That said I guess the Ertebölle hotspot is indeed quit clear. TRB North German Plain is highly Ertebölle HG + a shot EEF.  It were in fact Ertebölle people with a partly acquired neolithic package. See  Karsten Wentink (2006).

May be this also gives a clue for some Welzin samples? From memory there were a few Welzin samples with an extraordinary high HG component. May be the HG pocket in this area had until LBA effect?

[ph2ter]

...
May be this also gives a clue for some Welzin samples? From memory there were a few Welzin samples with an extraordinary high HG component. May be the HG pocket in this area had until LBA effect?

Yes, but Welzin samples on the PCA looks very diverse, except the majority of them are shifted in WHG direction. They spread between Baltic and Hungarian BS drift rich populations (in blue on the PCA):

[Rodoorn]

...
May be this also gives a clue for some Welzin samples? From memory there were a few Welzin samples with an extraordinary high HG component. May be the HG pocket in this area had until LBA effect?

Yes, but Welzin samples on the PCA looks very diverse, except the majority of them are shifted in WHG direction. They spread between Baltic and Hungarian BS drift rich populations (in blue on the PCA):

If there was a fight could this be between a Welzin autochtone Pommerian clan vs a Lusatian/Urnfield clan? In which the Pommerian clan had the highest HG?

[Dewsloth]

Can you run this Swedish "LN" DF19 sample?
SWE_N_Vattenledningen:NEO52__BC_1816,0.117238,0.105615,0.075801,0.071706,0.033545,0.025379,0.005405,0.017076,-0.006749,-0.001458,-0.00682,-0.005545,-0.019326,-0.009358,0.030537,0.016441,0.002477,0.007221,-0.005908,-0.00025,-0.00287,-0.00643,-0.006779,0.020364,0.003353

[ph2ter]

If there was a fight could this be between a Welzin autochtone Pommerian clan vs a Lusatian/Urnfield clan? In which the Pommerian clan had the highest HG?

Cluster 1 on the PCA could be local Pommeranian and cluster 2 Celtic-like clan:

[ph2ter]

Can you run this Swedish "LN" DF19 sample?
SWE_N_Vattenledningen:NEO52__BC_1816,0.117238,0.105615,0.075801,0.071706,0.033545,0.025379,0.005405,0.017076,-0.006749,-0.001458,-0.00682,-0.005545,-0.019326,-0.009358,0.030537,0.016441,0.002477,0.007221,-0.005908,-0.00025,-0.00287,-0.00643,-0.006779,0.020364,0.003353

For this sample the BA map would be the best, but I don't have BA map yet.

Here are LN, IA and modern maps:

LN is too early (my LN maps are good for a period before Steppe migration into western Europe):


IA is the most informative:


Modern:

[Dewsloth]

Thank you! He's not that far in time from I26830 (NLD_MBA), and his presence in Sweden raises a lot of questions.

[Rodoorn]

If there was a fight could this be between a Welzin autochtone Pommerian clan vs a Lusatian/Urnfield clan? In which the Pommerian clan had the highest HG?

Cluster 1 on the PCA could be local Pommeranian and cluster 2 Celtic-like clan:

Indeed! Although Celtic is in this context fare fetched. Lusatian is much more accurat imo:

wiki
"The Lusatian culture developed as the preceding Trzciniec culture experienced influences from the Tumulus culture of the Middle Bronze Age, essentially incorporating the local communities into the socio-political network of Iron Age Europe.[3] It formed part of the Urnfield systems found from eastern France, southern Germany and Austria to Hungary and the Nordic Bronze Age in northwestern Germany and Scandinavia. It was followed by the Billendorf culture of the Early Iron Age in the West. In Poland, the Lusatian culture is taken have spanned part of the Iron Age as well (there is only a terminological difference) and was succeeded in Montelius VIIbc in the northern ranges around the mouth of Vistula by the Pomeranian culture spreading south."

And were did the Lusatian culture border in the West indeed about Welzin, Tollense!

[ph2ter]

Indeed! Although Celtic is in this context fare fetched. Lusatian is much more accurat imo:

wiki
"The Lusatian culture developed as the preceding Trzciniec culture experienced influences from the Tumulus culture of the Middle Bronze Age, essentially incorporating the local communities into the socio-political network of Iron Age Europe.[3] It formed part of the Urnfield systems found from eastern France, southern Germany and Austria to Hungary and the Nordic Bronze Age in northwestern Germany and Scandinavia. It was followed by the Billendorf culture of the Early Iron Age in the West. In Poland, the Lusatian culture is taken have spanned part of the Iron Age as well (there is only a terminological difference) and was succeeded in Montelius VIIbc in the northern ranges around the mouth of Vistula by the Pomeranian culture spreading south."

And were did the Lusatian culture border in the West indeed about Welzin, Tollense!

According to your map:
Cluster 1 = Lusatian-Pommeranian
Cluster 2 = Hallstatt

[Rodoorn]

Indeed! Although Celtic is in this context fare fetched. Lusatian is much more accurat imo:

wiki
"The Lusatian culture developed as the preceding Trzciniec culture experienced influences from the Tumulus culture of the Middle Bronze Age, essentially incorporating the local communities into the socio-political network of Iron Age Europe.[3] It formed part of the Urnfield systems found from eastern France, southern Germany and Austria to Hungary and the Nordic Bronze Age in northwestern Germany and Scandinavia. It was followed by the Billendorf culture of the Early Iron Age in the West. In Poland, the Lusatian culture is taken have spanned part of the Iron Age as well (there is only a terminological difference) and was succeeded in Montelius VIIbc in the northern ranges around the mouth of Vistula by the Pomeranian culture spreading south."

And were did the Lusatian culture border in the West indeed about Welzin, Tollense!

According to your map:
Cluster 1 = Lusatian-Pommeranian
Cluster 2 = Hallstatt

According to your initial WHG map:

Cluster 1. the blue ones, Nordic Bronze Age, on the Mecklenburg Vorpommern side, the high HG Ertebölle remember   
Cluster 2: the yellow/ brown ones, Lusatian/Urnfield see also in your cloud around cluster 2 the LBA Hungarian/ LBA Czech/Hallstatt.

Or?

[ph2ter]

Indeed! Although Celtic is in this context fare fetched. Lusatian is much more accurat imo:

wiki
"The Lusatian culture developed as the preceding Trzciniec culture experienced influences from the Tumulus culture of the Middle Bronze Age, essentially incorporating the local communities into the socio-political network of Iron Age Europe.[3] It formed part of the Urnfield systems found from eastern France, southern Germany and Austria to Hungary and the Nordic Bronze Age in northwestern Germany and Scandinavia. It was followed by the Billendorf culture of the Early Iron Age in the West. In Poland, the Lusatian culture is taken have spanned part of the Iron Age as well (there is only a terminological difference) and was succeeded in Montelius VIIbc in the northern ranges around the mouth of Vistula by the Pomeranian culture spreading south."

And were did the Lusatian culture border in the West indeed about Welzin, Tollense!

According to your map:
Cluster 1 = Lusatian-Pommeranian
Cluster 2 = Hallstatt

According to your initial WHG map:

Cluster 1. the blue ones, Nordic Bronze Age, on the Mecklenburg Vorpommern side, the high HG Ertebölle remember   
Cluster 2: the yellow/ brown ones, Lusatian/Urnfield see also in your cloud around cluster 2 the LBA Hungarian/ LBA Czech/Hallstatt.

Or?

Cluster 2 is Hallstatt-like
Cluster 1 are samples with Baltic drift, so I would say that they are from the right bank of Oder

[Rodoorn]

Indeed! Although Celtic is in this context fare fetched. Lusatian is much more accurat imo:

wiki
"The Lusatian culture developed as the preceding Trzciniec culture experienced influences from the Tumulus culture of the Middle Bronze Age, essentially incorporating the local communities into the socio-political network of Iron Age Europe.[3] It formed part of the Urnfield systems found from eastern France, southern Germany and Austria to Hungary and the Nordic Bronze Age in northwestern Germany and Scandinavia. It was followed by the Billendorf culture of the Early Iron Age in the West. In Poland, the Lusatian culture is taken have spanned part of the Iron Age as well (there is only a terminological difference) and was succeeded in Montelius VIIbc in the northern ranges around the mouth of Vistula by the Pomeranian culture spreading south."

And were did the Lusatian culture border in the West indeed about Welzin, Tollense!

According to your map:
Cluster 1 = Lusatian-Pommeranian
Cluster 2 = Hallstatt

According to your initial WHG map:

Cluster 1. the blue ones, Nordic Bronze Age, on the Mecklenburg Vorpommern side, the high HG Ertebölle remember   
Cluster 2: the yellow/ brown ones, Lusatian/Urnfield see also in your cloud around cluster 2 the LBA Hungarian/ LBA Czech/Hallstatt.

Or?

Cluster 2 is Hallstatt-like
Cluster 1 are samples with Baltic drift, so I would say that they are from the right bank of Oder

 
What is honestly quit confusion. Because there is overlap in the description between the yellow and brown one,  Lusatian and Urnfield, wiki Lusatian:"It formed part of the Urnfield systems" and in your umap gives genetically the same overlap.

You suppose that blue and yellow show overlap....I can't get that......

Because they have indeed Baltic drift but the thing is that they also lean on to HG isn't? See the pull to the Doggerlander on the umap!

And when the controversy is blue/yellow contra brown area, than the "border confrontation"  would not made sense doesn't it? Because this seems like a border between yellow and blue.

[ph2ter]

 
What is honestly quit confusion. Because there is overlap in the description between the yellow and brown one,  Lusatian and Urnfield, wiki Lusatian:"It formed part of the Urnfield systems" and in your umap gives genetically the same overlap.

You suppose that blue and yellow show overlap....I can't get that......

Because they have indeed Baltic drift but the thing is that they also lean on to HG isn't? See the pull to the Doggerlander on the umap!

And when the controversy is blue/yellow contra brown area, than the "border confrontation"  would not made sense doesn't it? Because this seems like a border between yellow and blue.

It is really hard to group the Tollense samples.
I made MBA similarity maps for them and I am still not sure for their battle sides:










and the second batch of maps...

[ph2ter]

[ph2ter]

Can you run this Swedish "LN" DF19 sample?
SWE_N_Vattenledningen:NEO52__BC_1816,0.117238,0.105615,0.075801,0.071706,0.033545,0.025379,0.005405,0.017076,-0.006749,-0.001458,-0.00682,-0.005545,-0.019326,-0.009358,0.030537,0.016441,0.002477,0.007221,-0.005908,-0.00025,-0.00287,-0.00643,-0.006779,0.020364,0.003353

Here is NEO52 MBA map: