Posts: 31
Threads: 2
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Gender: Male
Y-DNA (P): R1b-U152
mtDNA (M): H1
Target: StefanoMerged_scaled
Distance: 0.0281% / 0.02814059
60.9 EEF
33.3 YAMNAYA
3.3 BSD
1.9 WHG
0.6 CHINA
Target: StefanoMerged_scaled
Distance: 0.0271% / 0.02711074
61.7 TUR_Barcin_N
33.3 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.0 WHG
1.7 Baltic_drift_as_HUN_MBA_Vatya_o_RISE479
0.3 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
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Y-DNA (P): E-Y134099 (RO)
Y-DNA (M): I-S17250 (BG)
Target: V_scaled
Distance: 2.9079% / 0.02907922
33.0 YAMNAYA
32.6 EEF
20.2 BSD
9.6 LEVANT
3.0 CHG
0.8 AUSTRALIA
0.6 CANADA
0.2 INDIA
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Why not just call it Baltic drift?
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(11-29-2023, 08:08 AM)duke Wrote: Why not just call it Baltic drift?
Lol I also agree, it is simply Baltic.
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As a Latvian I got quite high
Distance: 3.2192% / 0.03219206
50.6 BSD
43.6 YAMNAYA
3.6 LEVANT
1.0 MOROCCO
1.0 SIBERIA-S
0.2 INDOCHINA
Interestingly I need no additional WHG, EHG.
A bit of Siberia-S to account for Latvian - Baltic Finns contacts. A percent of Morocco coming up again (curious Pskov, NE Latvian feature).
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(11-29-2023, 08:08 AM)duke Wrote: Why not just call it Baltic drift?
Yes, it could be called just Baltic.
I believe that Pre-Proto Slavs were actually Balts.
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Y-DNA (P): R1a > YP1337 > R-BY160486*
mtDNA (M): H3*
Distance: 0.0357% / 0.03573910
Target: Lukasz_scaled
44.5 BSD
38.6 YAMNAYA
10.2 EEF
6.7 LEVANT
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(11-29-2023, 09:35 AM)ph2ter Wrote: (11-29-2023, 08:08 AM)duke Wrote: Why not just call it Baltic drift?
Yes, it could be called just Baltic.
I believe that Pre-Proto Slavs were actually Balts.
If so, then what was the factor(s) that eventually distinguished Slavs from Balts? Purely linguistic? Or are you saying that Proto Slavs differed from Pre Proto Slavs?
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(11-29-2023, 11:06 AM)leonardo Wrote: (11-29-2023, 09:35 AM)ph2ter Wrote: (11-29-2023, 08:08 AM)duke Wrote: Why not just call it Baltic drift?
Yes, it could be called just Baltic.
I believe that Pre-Proto Slavs were actually Balts.
If so, then what was the factor(s) that eventually distinguished Slavs from Balts? Purely linguistic? Or are you saying that Proto Slavs differed from Pre Proto Slavs?
Pre-Proto Slavs were simply the southern Balts.
Proto-Slavs are IA phenomenon.
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(11-29-2023, 11:26 AM)ph2ter Wrote: (11-29-2023, 11:06 AM)leonardo Wrote: (11-29-2023, 09:35 AM)ph2ter Wrote: (11-29-2023, 08:08 AM)duke Wrote: Why not just call it Baltic drift?
Yes, it could be called just Baltic.
I believe that Pre-Proto Slavs were actually Balts.
If so, then what was the factor(s) that eventually distinguished Slavs from Balts? Purely linguistic? Or are you saying that Proto Slavs differed from Pre Proto Slavs?
Pre-Proto Slavs were simply the southern Balts.
Proto-Slavs are IA phenomenon.
Do you have time frames in mind for pre proto? Also, by proto being an "IA phenomenon," are you saying around the time period that your graphs show these haplogroups started to grow - i.e., 300 BCE - or later, more into the Common Era?
![[Image: XkOrhJj.png]](https://i.imgur.com/XkOrhJj.png)
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(11-29-2023, 12:35 PM)leonardo Wrote: (11-29-2023, 11:26 AM)ph2ter Wrote: (11-29-2023, 11:06 AM)leonardo Wrote: (11-29-2023, 09:35 AM)ph2ter Wrote: (11-29-2023, 08:08 AM)duke Wrote: Why not just call it Baltic drift?
Yes, it could be called just Baltic.
I believe that Pre-Proto Slavs were actually Balts.
If so, then what was the factor(s) that eventually distinguished Slavs from Balts? Purely linguistic? Or are you saying that Proto Slavs differed from Pre Proto Slavs?
Pre-Proto Slavs were simply the southern Balts.
Proto-Slavs are IA phenomenon.
Do you have time frames in mind for pre proto? Also, by proto being an "IA phenomenon," are you saying around the time period that your graphs show these haplogroups started to grow - i.e., 300 BCE - or later, more into the Common Era? Before IA is BA and accordingly, Pre-Proto Slavic in my understanding is BA.
Yes, IA is from about 300 BCE in case of Proto-Slavic.
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11-29-2023, 10:05 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2023, 10:20 PM by duke.)
(11-29-2023, 09:35 AM)ph2ter Wrote: (11-29-2023, 08:08 AM)duke Wrote: Why not just call it Baltic drift?
Yes, it could be called just Baltic.
I believe that Pre-Proto Slavs were actually Balts.
Thats just assumption, not saying its wrong, but it isnt right either from what we know, my assumption is this drift is related to baltic HG admix, which is not IE, thus it can only be additional admix of proto balts, and proto slavs, and since balts have it more, it may seem that slavs were offshot of balts. But slavs and balts are language groups that are IE, not BHG
Black on white its actually just general NE drift that peaks in Balts, since Slavs drift towards Balts who additionally drift towards Fins, as more NE you go you get more fino-ugric admix, and closer you are around that baltic area, more BHG admix you have giving you false impression BHG is originator of proto baltoslavs.
While to me it seems it could just be aditional admix, balts generally have more, and spread is continued in Medieval and Renaissance trough additional mixing due to technology developments and political unions
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11-29-2023, 11:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2023, 11:55 PM by ph2ter.)
(11-29-2023, 10:05 PM)duke Wrote: (11-29-2023, 09:35 AM)ph2ter Wrote: (11-29-2023, 08:08 AM)duke Wrote: Why not just call it Baltic drift?
Yes, it could be called just Baltic.
I believe that Pre-Proto Slavs were actually Balts.
Thats just assumption, not saying its wrong, but it isnt right either from what we know, my assumption is this drift is related to baltic HG admix, which is not IE, thus it can only be additional admix of proto balts, and proto slavs, and since balts have it more, it may seem that slavs were offshot of balts. But slavs and balts are language groups that are IE, not BHG
Black on white its actually just general NE drift that peaks in Balts, since Slavs drift towards Balts who additionally drift towards Fins, as more NE you go you get more fino-ugric admix, and closer you are around that baltic area, more BHG admix you have giving you false impression BHG is originator of proto baltoslavs.
While to me it seems it could just be aditional admix, balts generally have more, and spread is continued in Medieval and Renaissance trough additional mixing due to technology developments and political unions
Slavs and Balts both stem from the common Proto Balto-Slavic which in turn stems from Proto Indo-European. It means that they have common origin and common Balto-Slavic genetic drift.
Balts do not drift towards Finns, but Finns drift toward Balts. Balto-Slavic drift does not originate from Finns. It is the question was this drift sourced from a pure HG or some HG-EEF mix.
But the language certainly didn't come from the Balto-Slavic drift source. It came from the Corded Ware R1a groups which gave birth to the Balto-Slavic after they had mixed with the BSD group.
The first Slavs that we have autosomals (for example Av2, POH13, POH28) have strong BSD drift. It points to the understanding that BSD was common to the Balts and the Slavs and that they acquired it when they were not yet differentiated. BSD pure population ceased to exist after the formation of Balto-Slavic, that is after its mixing with CW. Balatonkerstur (Kisapostag) group ceased to exist and it didn't speak Balto-Slavic although it had BSD drift.
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11-30-2023, 05:45 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2023, 05:50 AM by Mulay 'Abdullah.)
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا ۚ إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ اللَّهِ أَتْقَاكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ
S.49:13
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0.01794617 Spain_Roman_oMixed
0.01889478 Portugal_MonteDaNora_LateRoman
0.01890273 Austria_Ovilava_Roman
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(11-29-2023, 08:55 AM)Parastais Wrote: As a Latvian I got quite high
Distance: 3.2192% / 0.03219206
50.6 BSD
43.6 YAMNAYA
3.6 LEVANT
1.0 MOROCCO
1.0 SIBERIA-S
0.2 INDOCHINA
Interestingly I need no additional WHG, EHG.
A bit of Siberia-S to account for Latvian - Baltic Finns contacts. A percent of Morocco coming up again (curious Pskov, NE Latvian feature).
Target: Q_scaled
Distance: 4.1849% / 0.04184926
34.2 YAMNAYA
29.6 BSD
13.8 EEF
12.8 EHG
5.2 AMUR
2.4 CHINA
1.8 WHG
0.2 LEVANT
Joo, you won, hands down. No Siberia-S BTW here, but farmers and HG's who apparently did not make it to BSD.
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