04-17-2024, 05:21 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2024, 05:23 PM by Manofthehour.)
(04-17-2024, 04:35 PM)asquecco Wrote:(04-13-2024, 02:43 PM)Mitchell-Atkins Wrote:(04-13-2024, 07:45 AM)asquecco Wrote: Continuation of this old Anthrogenica thread:Here is a map of all known Z49>Z142 samples dated between 530 BC and ~180 AD.
https://genoplot.com/discussions/topic/1...atic-sea/1
In my optimistic intentions, this combined genetic and genealogical map (2024 V3) represents the S22778/S20782 distribution in the mid-1800s (and even a little earlier):
Here is the composition of the relevant S22778/S20782 data set:
As you can see, the midpoint isn't too far from your Z49>S8183>S22778/S20782 midpoint.
I think we both remember from anthrogenica days (and per your map and piechart above) Z49>S8183 tends to be more German, while Z49>Z142 more French.
EDIT: Just looked at FTDNA discover and there are 114 French and 134 German Z49 samples
S8183 is 39 German, 10 French samples, so almost 4 to 1 ratio
Z142 is 76 French and 60 German samples.
Who knows? Early on, maybe the Rhine served as some kind of initial boundary between the S8183 and Z142 predominate clans.
I think that what these maps are showing is mainly the result of the recent migrations to the Americas.
There many bias in these maps to consider, but certainly there is a core of 'real' meaning in them, perhaps linked to some 'treasure' of the past (salt, copper etc)
By the way, I would love S20782's origin near the Z142+ midpoint, because it's close to the 'Lacus Venetus' (Lake Constance).
I've wondered about this potential "Lacus Venetus" connection too. The area plausibly seemed to be a hub of Bronze Age Italo-Celtic activity and dynamics (As well as Rhaetic peoples, and perhaps Proto-Tyrhennians earlier on, etc...)
U152>Z56>Z43>Z46>Z48>Z44>CTS8949>FTC82256 Lindeman
M222...>DF105>ZZ87>S588>S7814 Toner
M222...>DF105>ZZ87>S588>S7814 Toner