(04-13-2024, 07:45 AM)asquecco Wrote: Continuation of this old Anthrogenica thread:
https://genoplot.com/discussions/topic/19444/r-s20782-a-flavor-of-north-adriatic-sea/1

In my optimistic intentions, this combined genetic and genealogical map (2024 V3) represents the S22778/S20782 distribution in the mid-1800s (and even a little earlier):



Here is the composition of the relevant S22778/S20782 data set:

(04-13-2024, 02:43 PM)Mitchell-Atkins Wrote:

(04-13-2024, 07:45 AM)asquecco Wrote: Continuation of this old Anthrogenica thread:
https://genoplot.com/discussions/topic/19444/r-s20782-a-flavor-of-north-adriatic-sea/1

In my optimistic intentions, this combined genetic and genealogical map (2024 V3) represents the S22778/S20782 distribution in the mid-1800s (and even a little earlier):



Here is the composition of the relevant S22778/S20782 data set:

Here is a map of all known Z49>Z142 samples dated between 530 BC and ~180 AD.  


As you can see, the midpoint isn't too far from your Z49>S8183>S22778/S20782 midpoint. 

I think we both remember from anthrogenica days (and per your map and piechart above) Z49>S8183 tends to be more German, while Z49>Z142 more French.

EDIT:  Just looked at FTDNA discover and there are 114 French and 134 German Z49 samples
S8183 is 39 German, 10 French samples, so almost 4 to 1 ratio
Z142 is  76 French and 60 German samples.

Who knows?  Early on, maybe the Rhine served as some kind of initial boundary between the S8183 and Z142 predominate clans.

(04-13-2024, 01:17 PM)brunolord15 Wrote: Where do you think R-S8183 probably born?

(04-17-2024, 04:35 PM)asquecco Wrote:

(04-13-2024, 02:43 PM)Mitchell-Atkins Wrote:

(04-13-2024, 07:45 AM)asquecco Wrote: Continuation of this old Anthrogenica thread:
https://genoplot.com/discussions/topic/19444/r-s20782-a-flavor-of-north-adriatic-sea/1

In my optimistic intentions, this combined genetic and genealogical map (2024 V3) represents the S22778/S20782 distribution in the mid-1800s (and even a little earlier):



Here is the composition of the relevant S22778/S20782 data set:

Here is a map of all known Z49>Z142 samples dated between 530 BC and ~180 AD.  


As you can see, the midpoint isn't too far from your Z49>S8183>S22778/S20782 midpoint. 

I think we both remember from anthrogenica days (and per your map and piechart above) Z49>S8183 tends to be more German, while Z49>Z142 more French.

EDIT:  Just looked at FTDNA discover and there are 114 French and 134 German Z49 samples
S8183 is 39 German, 10 French samples, so almost 4 to 1 ratio
Z142 is  76 French and 60 German samples.

Who knows?  Early on, maybe the Rhine served as some kind of initial boundary between the S8183 and Z142 predominate clans.

I think that what these maps are showing is mainly the result of the recent migrations to the Americas.
There many bias in these maps to consider, but certainly there is a core of 'real' meaning in them, perhaps linked to some 'treasure' of the past (salt, copper etc)



By the way, I would love S20782's origin near the Z142+ midpoint, because it's close to the 'Lacus Venetus' (Lake Constance).