I2 in Yamnaya

[Kaltmeister]

Here  are all I2 men from the steppe, 31 altogether. The oldest one is from  Yabalkovo, Bulgaria (5650 BCE). The oldest Kurgan burial is Berezhnovka 2 from the area of Wolgograd (4830 BCE).
152  samples carry R1b, if I counted correct. The oldest is MOS304 from  Golubaya-Krinitsa, south of Woronesh in Russia (5500 BCE). The oldest elite burial is the same Kurgan as the oldest for I2: Berezhnovka 2.  But it is 54 years younger (4776 BCE). So in this short review the I2 burials appear a bit older.

Another  short calculation: There are 428 steppe samples altogether, 111 of them  are female: So we have 317 male samples. 31 out of 317 samples is 9,8%  I2. 152 out of 317 is 47,9% R1b. I am not that familiar with those subclades and the general find situation, for the focus in forum discussions ist not on I2 lines. But in my opinion the constellation asks for considerations on their role as a potential elite in the genesis of Yamnaya and the spread/origin of Indoeuropeans. If it is confirmed that not a single R1b sample from the Steppe carries the mutation L151 that is so widespread in western Europe today, their assumed important role in the spread of the Indoeuropeans is rather questionable.

   

[Sephesakueu]

The possibility that Indo european languages may have origins among WHGs elites imposing it upon steppe herderers is a plot twist I wasn't expecting.

[Mithra]

The possibility that Indo european languages may have origins among WHGs elites imposing it upon steppe herderers is a plot twist I wasn't expecting.

Most of these I2a samples are I-L699 and are from Don Yamnaya, a somewhat special subset of Yamnaya with elevated Ukraine_N compared to Core Yamnaya. The most interesting is probably the Berezhnovka I2a, it’s one of the oldest steppe samples and could be a result of movement from further west, at least its Y-haplogroup indicates a movement from the west(Don?). Furthermore Khavlynsk has also one I2a, here it’s most likely a result of a Berezhnovka-related population mixing with populations from the Volga cline as described in that paper. 

R1b is the Y-haplogroup most associated with every steppe group that we usually see as representative of the PIE community.

[Kaltmeister]

The possibility that Indo european languages may have origins among WHGs elites imposing it upon steppe herderers is a plot twist I wasn't expecting.

Most of these I2a samples are I-L699 and are from Don Yamnaya, a somewhat special subset of Yamnaya with elevated Ukraine_N compared to Core Yamnaya. The most interesting is probably the Berezhnovka I2a, it’s one of the oldest steppe samples and could be a result of movement from further west, at least its Y-haplogroup indicates a movement from the west(Don?). Furthermore Khavlynsk has also one I2a, here it’s most likely a result of a Berezhnovka-related population mixing with populations from the Volga cline as described in that paper. 

R1b is the Y-haplogroup most associated with every steppe group that we usually see as representative of the PIE community.

I2 is typically assigned to WHG, but in my opinion this combination doesn't explain the situation in the steppe. While Lazaridis & consorts are trying to shift the Indoeuropean origin along a "southern arc" beyond the Caucasus and in the direction of the Levante, in my opinion EHG is the crucial component for the genesis of Yamnaya. Leaving aside the offered interpretations and looking at the facts, we can follow the Wolga cline, concluding that the EHG origin must be searched somewhere in the vicinity of the upper Wolga, where this component has its highest density. So Veretye in Karelia must be close to the origin, while Samara and Sidelkino are marking the aim of an southeastern expansion along the Wolga, probably by boat.

It is interesting that also Papac et al. refuse a Yamnaya invasion for Corded Ware, instead they assumed an initial immigration from the "north or northeast". They mentioned the Forest Steppe as a possible origin, but in fact they don't offer any evidence for that. So the wider area of Karelia is a possible origin of an EHG people that moved into the Steppe and into middle/eastern Europe, founding Yamnaya and Corded Ware in two separate moves.

If some I2 clades played a role in this migration, they must have carried mainly EHG, not WHG, and they had nothing to do with the chapter of prehistory that has taken place before in the expansion of farming tribes from Anatolia into Europe. They would have initiated a new chapter in history that may have started when temperatures in their northern homeland declined - something that in fact happened in the time immediately before Yamnaya was formed, about 4.400 BCE (see picture: detail A). In fact many Indoeuropean (and also some non-Indoeuropean) mythologies report an old homeland that had to be given up, because it was getting very cold.
And, here in the north, we might also find the place of origin for R1b-L23, splitting into Z2103 and L51 and moving southeast and southwest, also for R1a-M417.

   

[old europe]

The possibility that Indo european languages may have origins among WHGs elites imposing it upon steppe herderers is a plot twist I wasn't expecting.

Most of these I2a samples are I-L699 and are from Don Yamnaya, a somewhat special subset of Yamnaya with elevated Ukraine_N compared to Core Yamnaya. The most interesting is probably the Berezhnovka I2a, it’s one of the oldest steppe samples and could be a result of movement from further west, at least its Y-haplogroup indicates a movement from the west(Don?). Furthermore Khavlynsk has also one I2a, here it’s most likely a result of a Berezhnovka-related population mixing with populations from the Volga cline as described in that paper. 

R1b is the Y-haplogroup most associated with every steppe group that we usually see as representative of the PIE community.

I2 is typically assigned to WHG, but in my opinion this combination doesn't explain the situation in the steppe. While Lazaridis & consorts are trying to shift the Indoeuropean origin along a "southern arc" beyond the Caucasus and in the direction of the Levante, in my opinion EHG is the crucial component for the genesis of Yamnaya. Leaving aside the offered interpretations and looking at the facts, we can follow the Wolga cline, concluding that the EHG origin must be searched somewhere in the vicinity of the upper Wolga, where this component has its highest density. So Veretye in Karelia must be close to the origin, while Samara and Sidelkino are marking the aim of an southeastern expansion along the Wolga, probably by boat.

It is interesting that also Papac et al. refuse a Yamnaya invasion for Corded Ware, instead they assumed an initial immigration from the "north or northeast". They mentioned the Forest Steppe as a possible origin, but in fact they don't offer any evidence for that. So the wider area of Karelia is a possible origin of an EHG people that moved into the Steppe and into middle/eastern Europe, founding Yamnaya and Corded Ware in two separate moves.

If some I2 clades played a role in this migration, they must have carried mainly EHG, not WHG, and they had nothing to do with the chapter of prehistory that has taken place before in the expansion of farming tribes from Anatolia into Europe. They would have initiated a new chapter in history that may have started when temperatures in their northern homeland declined - something that in fact happened in the time immediately before Yamnaya was formed, about 4.400 BCE (see picture: detail A). In fact many Indoeuropean (and also some non-Indoeuropean) mythologies report an old homeland that had to be given up, because it was getting very cold.
And, here in the north, we might also find the place of origin for R1b-L23, splitting into Z2103 and L51 and moving southeast and southwest, also for R1a-M417.

regardless of what the role of I2 in the build up of the PIE formation we should consider this

1)the image I posted identify correctly the middle don dna as the original  source of steppe ancestry in CWC ( and hence in Yamnaya) As we already know the expansion toward the northern caucasus of the Middle Don cluster around 5000 BC is the trigger that formed progress like dna. Progress is MIddle Don plus more CHG

2) The middle Don folks belonged to the Marioupol Culture which is a Ukraine neolithic culture that influenced all the steppe regions ( Volga and northern caucasus)

3)  as for the dna ukraine neolithic are modeld in the recent steppe paper as an equal split of WHG and EHG that translates in the most conservative way as 70% WHG and 30% ANE

Chance that PIA is an ukraine neolithic language that was spoken first between the Dneper and the Don is nearly 100%

The presence of pure WHG line I2 both in Middle Don, Sredni Stog and even lower Volga means a lot in this respect.

[Kaltmeister]

Yes, I know this version of the theory. A model that identifies a common origin for both Yamnaya and Corded Ware makes sense. But where are the R1b-L151 samples, marking their origin in Ukraine? Where the R1a-M417 samples before their entry into Corded Ware territory?

Do you share my intuition that EHG/ANE is the core element of Indoeuropean genetics? Then we have no choice, we have to follow the Wolga upstream ("Wolga cline") and get to Veretye in Karelia, the oldest EHG find so far. In my version there was a general migration from north to south by ANE/EHG-rich people, caused by a climate change. In that case you will find EHG/ANE-rich populations in the whole area, and you can successfully use them to modulate the admixture of adjacent populations. But that doesn't solve, in my opinion, the Indoeuropean question.

We know in fact a lot about this people from their mythology, and some aspects are not compatible with an origin in Ukraine. Why are there so many consistent announcements in Indoeuropean mythology and tradition that point to a common origin in the north, to a home north of the Polar Circle, to a climate change that forced them to leave their homeland? The Germanic "Fimbul Winters" are well known, I believe, so I will give some other examples collected by William Warren in "Paradise lost":

---

"It is simply the Arctic Eden of humanity remembered as it was before the Evil One entered, and “by his witchcraft counter-created winter and the worst of plagues." There "are (now) ten winter months there, two summer months; and those are cold for the waters, cold for the earth, and cold for the trees.“

(Third Fargard of the Avesta, Persian)

“A year of mortals is a day and a night of the gods, or regents of the universe seated around the North Pole; and again their division is this: their day is the northern and their night the southern course of the sun.”

(Code of Manu, Hindu tradition)

“In the beginning the stars revolved in a tholiform manner.” (Anaxagoras)

Comment: Tholiform means "like in a dome", circling around the head of the observer. Anaxagoras himself defined the motion more fully when he said that it was a motion not underneath, but around the earth. Anaximenes would seem to have the same idea, for he is reported to have likened the primitive revolution of the sky to the rotating of a man’s hat upon his head. (Warren)

A learned Danish writer pronounces it “remarkable” that the Scandinavian mythology informs us that, before the establishment of the present order of the world, the sun which now rises in the East, “rose in the South”. (Warren) Comment: North of the Polar Circle day and night endure half a year - and the sun rises and sinks in the south.

"O Maker of the material world, thou Holy One! What lights are there in the Vara which Yima made?”
Ahura Mazda answered: "There are uncreated lights and created lights. There the stars, the moon, and the sun are only once a year seen to rise and set, and a year seems only as a day.” (2. Fargard of the Avesta, Persian)

---

This is just a short collection. If I had some time, I could give you many more, similar quotations. A well known example ist the "Arctic home in the Vedas", written by the Indian intellectual B.G. Tilak - showing that the Indian homeland must have been located in the far north, beyond the Polar Circle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arctic..._the_Vedas

All these phenomena can not be experienced or observed in the Ukraine or the Pontic Steppe.

[Kaltmeister]

There ist, of course, another phenomenon supporting the view outlined above: The genesis of the Germanic people, who undoubtedly represent an important and characteristic Indogermanic branch. The data we have so far shows us that the oldest finds assigned to Allentoft's proto-Germanic cluster "Scandinavia_4000BP_3000BP" (McColl says: "East-Germanic cluster") are all carrying Y-haplogroup I1, at least for the first 1000 years. Only then Y-haplogroup R1b-U106 appears in Scandinavia and is, under so far unknown circumstances, integrated into this genetic cluster. I1 (M253) shows a long bottleneck between 27500 and 4600 years BP. Let me first show the absurd consequences for the assumption of an Indogermanic origin in the steppe - leaving aside theories on the origin south of the Caucasus that even increase this absurdity:

-->No steppe herder has been tested M253 so far, and the genesis of Yamnaya predates their TMRCA. So we would have to assume that a group of those herders moved to the Baltic area - let's say, in the region around Lettland - and suddenly became boat people who crossed the Baltic Sea to settle in Scandinavia. There they layered the local population and founded the Battle Axe culture (we are now about 2800 BCE). Afterwards they changed their lifestyle again and became farmers and cattle herders, leaving the coastside to the Pitted Ware people. 200 years later the original I1-line was born. One single man brought a flood of offspring into the world, letting the initial I1 haplotree diversify and displacing all other local men. Did his line arrive with the steppe herders? Was he a local, integrated into the BAC? No matter what, his descendands soon took over southern Scandinavia, we find the oldest bodies in gallery graves about 2000 BCE - again 600 years later. And what is most astonishing: They all have the typical, EHG-rich autosomal genetics that we also find in the steppe. Hardly any trace of local admixture, but to the contrary: If we look at McColl's characteristic PCA, we find out that they carry even more EHG than the original Yamnaya people. And, after all they speak a characteristic Indogermanic language - as if they just arrived from the IG homeland. There is no way anything like this may have happened.<--

If we follow the idea outlined above, everything makes much more sense: At the northern coast beyond the polar circle, presumably between the Finnmark and the Ural, lived a boat people, hunters and fishermen with an ANE/EHG-like admixture. After the end of the climate optimum they were forced to leave their home, moving south. At 3400 BCE (picture, Detail A - note: the graph shows the temperature development in the European area between 65 and 70 degrees northern latitude, the coast north of the polar circle) there was a massive drop in temperature, driving large groups to the south. One group followed the Volga and became the founders of the Yamnaya culture. Another one moved south into the Baltikum and then south-west to Middle Europe to build the Corded Ware complex - some others moved south inside Scandinavia and founded Battle Axe and Single Grave cultures. At least one small group stayed in the homeland, probably the most western located and maybe protected from the cold by a strong phase of the Gulf Stream; they carried Y-haplogroup I1. Time after time, some of them migrated to the south: They ended up in Stora Förvar (Gotland) or Ostorf, Mecklenburg. These are our enigmatic proto-I1 lines, leaving no living descendants today. When another hard drop in temperature appeared about 2000 BCE (picture, detail B), the rest of this people also had to leave. They moved into southern Sweden, layered the local population and formed the proto-Germanic cluster. Their old homeland was later, when conditions improved again, resettled by a different, Uralic people.
The "Fimbul Winters" described in the Edda are an old memory of these occurences, and let me also repeat the quotation taken from Warren: "A learned Danish writer pronounces it “remarkable” that the Scandinavian mythology informs us that, before the establishment of the present order of the world, the sun which now rises in the East, “rose in the South”. [Comment: North of the Polar Circle day and night endure half a year - and the sun rises and sinks in the south.]

   

We also have indication for this process from the strontium isotope analysis of the oldest I1 finds in the area of Falköping, southern Sweden. Allentoft says:

The rapid increase in frequency of this  haplogroup and associated genome-wide ancestry coincides with increase in human mobility seen in Swedish Sr isotope data, suggesting an influx of people from eastern or north-eastern  regions of Scandinavia...[...]

This indicates the same original space for the IE Germanic people and the Yamnaya/Corded Ware who, as we have seen, can be traced to the upper Volga ("Volga cline", Lazaridis) and to Veretye in Karelia, where the oldest EHG sample so far was found. The mythology quoted above tells the same story. And if we assume that ANE/EHG was their original admixture, it is remarkable that still today nowhere in the world we find a higher concentration of this component than in northern Scandinavia. Somewhere in this area lies the IE "Urheimat".

McColl et al. write:

Moreover, the non-local Hunter-Gatherer ancestry of this East Scandinavian cluster is indicative of a cross-Baltic maritime rather than a southern Scandinavian land-based entry. Later in the Iron Age around 1700 BP, we find a southward push of admixed Eastern and Southern Scandinavians into areas including Germany and the Netherlands [...]

We can easily see that McColl follows the absurd logic of the steppe origin here, as sketched above. Steppe - Baltikum - crossing of the Baltic Sea - southern Scandinavia. But the reason for the similar genetics on both shores of the Baltic sea, in the Baltikum and inside Scandinavia, is probably something different: The same ANE people moved south, on the west and east side of the Baltic Sea, and settled there. The whole idea of an east-west-migration is wrong. There was no Indogermanic invasion across the Baltic sea. I will use this thread to give some further evidence time after time.

[alanarchae]

[quote="Kaltmeister" pid="18256" dateline="1714914118"]
Here  are all I2 men from the steppe, 31 altogether. The oldest one is from  Yabalkovo, Bulgaria (5650 BCE). The oldest Kurgan burial is Berezhnovka 2 from the area of Wolgograd (4830 BCE).
152  samples carry R1b, if I counted correct. The oldest is MOS304 from  Golubaya-Krinitsa, south of Woronesh in Russia (5500 BCE). The oldest elite burial is the same Kurgan as the oldest for I2: Berezhnovka 2.  But it is 54 years younger (4776 BCE). So in this short review the I2 burials appear a bit older.

Another  short calculation: There are 428 steppe samples altogether, 111 of them  are female: So we have 317 male samples. 31 out of 317 samples is 9,8%  I2. 152 out of 317 is 47,9% R1b. I am not that familiar with those subclades and the general find situation, for the focus in forum discussions ist not on I2 lines. But in my opinion the constellation asks for considerations on their role as a potential elite in the genesis of Yamnaya and the spread/origin of Indoeuropeans. If it is confirmed that not a single R1b sample from the Steppe carries the mutation L151 that is so widespread in western Europe today, their assumed important role in the spread of the Indoeuropeans is rather questionable.


[/L151 dates to c. 2950BC close to the moment a steppe culture transformed into CW. So L151 either came into being in the first decades after leaving the steppe OR came into existence in a P310 man only decades before the steppes were left and certainly could be no more than a family within a larger P310 clan. P310 (tmrca 3300BC) HAS been found twice in Afansievo. The latter is an offshoot of early Yamnaya. So it’s clear P310 (only 300 years upstream of L151) was a steppe line located in a position that made migrating eastwards logical. P310’s tmrca date is the same as the most commonly quoted starting date for yamnaya and afanasievo these days. So you couldn’t really have a better fit for being present at the start of Yamnaya than Mr P310.

Yamnaya is linked to late PIE, not to indo-anatolian or even the predecessor of that in the 6th and 5th millennia. And the genetics shift a little eastwards between the two so it’s likely the non Anatolian IEs origin is somewhat on the eastern side of where the indo-anatolians had formed 1000 years earlier or so. The y DNA also changes drastically.

[Kaltmeister]

alanarchae wrote:

L151 dates to c. 2950BC close to the moment a steppe culture transformed into CW. So L151 either came into being in the first decades after leaving the steppe OR came into existence in a P310 man only decades before the steppes were left and certainly could be no more than a family within a larger P310 clan. P310 (tmrca 3300BC) HAS been found twice in Afansievo. The latter is an offshoot of early Yamnaya. So it’s clear P310 (only 300 years upstream of L151) was a steppe line located in a position that made migrating eastwards logical. P310’s tmrca date is the same as the most commonly quoted starting date for yamnaya and afanasievo these days. So you couldn’t really have a better fit for being present at the start of Yamnaya than Mr P310.

That's right, and YFull's TMRCA is even a bit lower (4800 ybp). But all five L51 samples found in Yamnaya are younger, at least in the average age estimation - and they have a good coverage. We would expect that all of them, or at least some of them would show a mutation on the L151 level if they were on that line. Of course we will have to wait for the final data, but my expectation is they are L151-, located on small L51 (L52, P310) side branches.

This makes a lot of sense. I have followed until now, I must admit, Tognoni's idea that the origin of L51 has been middle Europe. But the new data makes it very likely that they were among the people leaving their northern homeland in the area of Karelia. Here is why: The group following the Wolga, as far as they were R1b, carried mainly Z2103, while the L51 people moved to middle Europe (Corded Ware complex). However, a small amount of the L51 group split off and went southeast with the Yamnaya. This is the moment when their lines separated, and that is why we find P310 and L52, but no L151 in the east. The occurence of that very mutation marks the time frame when both groups parted - forever. This is also the reason why we find L51 (and no L151) in Afanasievo. L51+/L151- is the characteristic of that eastern group. I will discuss the Anatolian branch in another post.

[Kaltmeister]

When Haak, Lazaridis, Reich et al. presented their new version of the Indogermanic steppe invasion into Western Europe ("Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe", 2015), it was the leading Russian archaeologist Leo Klein, who took an opposing position. He wrote a critical review (2017), pointing out the weaknesses of the theory, and as a result a discussion arose between him and the authors of the study. Klein had spent a lot of his lifetime researching the Russian Corded Ware and Yamnaya/Pit-Grave culture. It is worth reading his reply at any time, in my opinion all his critical remarks are still valid. But in this post I want to focus only on one argument: If we assume, like for example Haak et al. did in their first version of the theory, that EHG is a crucial component and marker for the Indoeuropean expansion, it is of course interesting to examine its distribution. For this purpose Klein presented an autosomal map, made by the Russian geneticist Balanovsky. It depicts the cline of what he calls the "Yamnaya genetic component", but to me it looks more like pure EHG. It shows its distribution today.

   

This map again confirms the idea of a common origin for Yamnaya and Corded Ware in the north. Or, to say it in Klein's own words: "The map shows that the 'Yamnaya' genetic component is hardly Yamnaya in origin; rather it is a more ancient component originating in the populations of northern Europe from whence it spread both to the steppes and to the cultures of central Europe and elsewhere."

[Geo]

 31 out of 317 samples is 9,8%  I2. 152 out of 317 is 47,9% R1b. ....in my opinion the constellation asks for considerations on their role as a potential elite in the genesis of Yamnaya and the spread/origin of Indoeuropeans. 

9,8% cannot be elite in such patriarchal community. 
I2 were adopted lineages in what became IE. Minors who were spared. And they probably were from Bug-Dniester culture fleeing East from xenocidal EEF-derived Linear pottery culture.

[Geo]

When Haak, Lazaridis, Reich et al. presented their new version of the Indogermanic steppe invasion into Western Europe ("Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe", 2015), it was the leading Russian archaeologist Leo Klein, who took an opposing position. 

Klein was very politically engaged scientist (though all his ideas failed) and rejected in many areas. 

Just calm down and accept ANE/EEF as paleoeuropean kind from Siberia. They adopted classical I2s fleeing from EEF invaders and counterattacked together to reconquer Europe.)

[Kaltmeister]

 31 out of 317 samples is 9,8%  I2. 152 out of 317 is 47,9% R1b. ....in my opinion the constellation asks for considerations on their role as a potential elite in the genesis of Yamnaya and the spread/origin of Indoeuropeans. 

9,8% cannot be elite in such patriarchal community. 
I2 were adopted lineages in what became IE. Minors who were spared. And they probably were from Bug-Dniester culture fleeing East from xenocidal EEF-derived Linear pottery culture.

Aristocracy - or Elite, to use the modern term, is always a minority. The Roman Patricians originated from 14 gentes that must have been families in the beginning. The ancient Greek Polis was ruled by a thin upper class, while the broad majority of the population were serves. You can look at any Indoeuropean society and will always find the same pattern. Oppenheimer (Der Staat) describes the initiation of the Neolithic state to be the layering of a large, local (farming) population by a minority group of aggressive, militarily superior invaders. These invaders formed a new, aristocratic class that didn't have to work anymore and had a labor force to their disposal to realise their plans - the beginning of civilisation. He estimates the share of these invaders to be between 5 and 25 %; the Germanic/Roman aristocracy of the Middle Ages was even smaller, not more than one percent of the population.
This layering process was, in my opinion, the real Neolithic Revolution, more than farming and cattle herding. A social structure came into life that lasts, in different ways, right into our presence, although the structures of power tend to be hidden lately.
So 9,8% is a realistic value for a group of invaders to found a new culture.

Your passion to find support of your Nazi-like ideas of Arian bestias from the North is remarkable. 
Klein was very politically engaged scientist (though all his ideas failed) and rejected in many areas. 

Just calm down and accept ANE/EEF as paleoeuropean kind from Siberia. They adopted classical I2s fleeing from EEF invaders and counterattacked together to reconquer Europe.)

Control your emotions! Ressentiment is no good advisor if you are looking for the truth. If you are searching for knowledge, it is always important to find out first what you would like to find - and what you do not want to find, because this leads to the path of error. Try to avoid these feelings. 
The Indoeuropeans are a mythos, and it appears everyone would prefer a version that makes his own ancestors look well. These feelings must be avoided, for only cold and rational evaluation will lead to the goal. 
The Indoeuropean research is flawed by the idea that it must refute the Nazis. But the theory that the Indoeuropeans came from Scandinavia was not invented by them, it is much older. Karl Penka, for example, or Gustaf Kossinna were important representatives - and they were both dead before Hitler came to power. The idea that a theory must refute someone is ideologically affected and doesn't follow the idea of modern science, which has to be open-ended by definition. It is as scientific as the efforts of the thinkers in the Middle Ages who tried to prove that the Bible tells the truth - and they always succeeded.

[Pribislav]

There are two important new samples from Lepenski Vir, the oldest I2-L701 and I2-Y6098 thus far, and at the same time the first cases of these clades from the Iron Gates.:

LEPE18; 6200-5950 BC; Lepenski Vir, Serbia; Iron Gates_Neolithic; I2a2a1b1-L701 (xP78,Y5606)

LEPE45; 6588-6395 BC; Lepenski Vir, Serbia; Iron Gates_Mesolithic; I2a1b1b1-Y6099>pre-Y6099

Now we have almost all major I2a2-M436 clades in the Iron Gates Mesolithic/Early Neolithic, from where they radially dispersed to the other parts of Europe (L701 to the east, Z161 and Y3670 to the north, Y6098 to the west, and S2555 in all directions). Only pre-M284 is still missing, which also went to the west.

S2555: Hajdučka Vodenica and Schela Cladovei

Y6098: Lepenski Vir

Z161: Hajdučka Vodenica and Vlasac

L701: Lepenski Vir

Y3670: Vlasac

[AimSmall]

Chill the language and attitude in here.