Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA (DISCUSSION ONLY)

[RCO]

There are J1a-PF7264 clades in Europe and the Balkans since the Iron Age.

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/J-PF7263/tree
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS4393/
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/J-ZS4381/tree

[elflock]

They're Middleeastern. There's nothing about these J2a-M410+ and J1a clades suggesting a Greek/Aegean connection. The same pattern is observable in all of the Roman era Balkans and other parts of the Roman Empire. As is the Roman mediated increase of E1b (including "European" clade V13) in the Western Balkans.

The branches are of Middle Eastern origin but there's no indication that the inhabitants of Hvar were recent migrants from the Middle East or that they would identify (and be identified) as anything other than Romans. Dalmatian Romance speakers most likely descended from populations like this one.

J1a-PF7264 is not Paleo-Balkan, neither by phylogeny nor aDNA coverage.

It's not paleo-Balkan and yet it has a Balkan-like autosomal profile. And the individual with central European G2a has an Eastern Mediterranean-like autosomal profile. We've seen similar cases of "mismatching" Y DNA and autosomal profiles in Olalde et al 2023 and elsewhere.

We don't dissagree, do we? I made that quite clear in my response in this thread and other threads. That a) the J2a-M410+ & J1a haplogroups are of Middleeastern origin b) that that fact stands in no contradiction with some of their (remains to be seen) auDNA profiles having Paleo-Balkan sources c) that when these uniparentals first appear in the Balkans and Italy (or elsewhere within the former Roman Empire) they're coupled with Middleastern auDNA. Hence I'm not claiming or have claimed they represent fresh out of Anatolia/Levant/North Africa migrants. 

As for their, according to you likely "Romance identity", that is a possibility.

[Awood]

The Hvar samples look like foreign males with local female lineages. No R1, no I2. Oh yeah, real local. How did they get there? Let the historians figure it out.

[Riverman]

The Hvar samples look like foreign males with local female lineages. No R1, no I2. Oh yeah, real local. How did they get there? Let the historians figure it out.

The Liburnians were a different people, closely related to the Veneti and more influenced by Eastern Urnfield groups (Middle Danubian and Gáva-related). On top of that, the island was settled by Greeks from the islands and we deal with an Imperial Roman population in what might be described as an international harbour.

[elflock]

The Hvar samples look like foreign males with local female lineages. No R1, no I2. Oh yeah, real local. How did they get there? Let the historians figure it out.

There is one sample with an IA Western Balkan Y-DNA namely I34294 J-L283>Z631. The absolute majority of Dalmatian BA-IA samples belong to J-L283. Most of Hvar samples have non-local Y-DNAs because it is a late antiquity cosmopolitan site that was a Greek settlement before.

[pelop]

The Hvar samples look like foreign males with local female lineages. No R1, no I2. Oh yeah, real local. How did they get there? Let the historians figure it out.

"Local R1 and I2" in ancient coastal Dalmatia/Illyria? Are there any unpublished samples that the rest of us aren't aware of?