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H-M82 the main Romani line
#1
[Image: 41431_2016_BFejhg2015201_Fig1_HTML.jpg?as=webp]
In addition to H-M52 and its derivate H-M82 haplogroups, three non-Indian lineages (I-P259, J-M92, and J-M67) were defined as founders (Figure 1 and Supplementary Figure S1). I-P259 is present in all Roma groups (except in Spanish Roma) and absent in our non-Roma populations (with the exception of one Hungarian). The I-P259 network showed a star-like profile with reduced internal diversity (Supplementary Figure S2B). This suggests that the mutation might have appeared in the Roma population very recently and probably once, and spread due to drift. The founder lineages J-M92 and J-M67 are present in both Roma and hosts, as well as in the populations found in the Roma migration way out-of-India.47 Both lineages showed a star-like pattern in Roma with the exception of some individuals.
The frequencies of the Indian Y-chromosome H haplogroup (present in up to 44% of male Roma) were found to be absent or at very low frequencies in host populations (1.03% in Bulgaria, n=97 and 0.62% in Slovakia, n=161) but at a moderate frequency in Hungary (5.34%, but caution is needed because of sampling strategy29). In the case of host populations where this lineage was absent, we computed the highest frequency F of haplogroup H that could be present but escaped our sampling n with a 95% probability (Poisson distribution 1−e−Fn=0.95) (Supplementary Table S8). For the host populations of Spain (n=253), Greece (n=100), Romania (n=144), and Ukraine (n=42), the probabilities were accordingly low (1.2%, 3%, 2.1%, and 7.1%, respectively).
www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2015201
A look at the minimum spanning tree of the PCA component 1 and 2 of the SNPs of the H-M82 in the FTDNA database shows that there are deep divergences with samples from Turkey, Israel, Arabia, Romani, Kashmir, Gangetic plains, Tamils forming major nodes. The approximate time of divergence is probably 2500 years to 1500 years. These are the time of the Persian and Greek occupation of the cities around Indus Valley. The split of some these ancient individuals into Turkey, Arabia and Israel could be explained by Greek occupation and movement of these people along with the Greek armies during that time. The further split of Romani after the fall of the Greek cities in Medieval times probably caused the groups supporting the Greeks to move into Europe as Romanis.
[Image: hm82mintree-illus.png]

Rufus191, Aeolus, Capsian20 And 2 others like this post
Salkhit 625 SNP, Otzi 803 SNP, Mik15 798 SNP, RISE493 1335 SNP, I11456 1024 SNP, I7718 980 SNP, I9041 512S
Target: tipirneni:dante
Chebyshev distance: 0.64%
79.0 IRN_SIS_BA2
12.4 ITA_Daunian
8.6 Poland_Viking.SG
Reply
#2
(10-01-2023, 07:48 PM)tipirneni Wrote: [Image: 41431_2016_BFejhg2015201_Fig1_HTML.jpg?as=webp]
In addition to H-M52 and its derivate H-M82 haplogroups, three non-Indian lineages (I-P259, J-M92, and J-M67) were defined as founders (Figure 1 and Supplementary Figure S1). I-P259 is present in all Roma groups (except in Spanish Roma) and absent in our non-Roma populations (with the exception of one Hungarian). The I-P259 network showed a star-like profile with reduced internal diversity (Supplementary Figure S2B). This suggests that the mutation might have appeared in the Roma population very recently and probably once, and spread due to drift. The founder lineages J-M92 and J-M67 are present in both Roma and hosts, as well as in the populations found in the Roma migration way out-of-India.47 Both lineages showed a star-like pattern in Roma with the exception of some individuals.
The frequencies of the Indian Y-chromosome H haplogroup (present in up to 44% of male Roma) were found to be absent or at very low frequencies in host populations (1.03% in Bulgaria, n=97 and 0.62% in Slovakia, n=161) but at a moderate frequency in Hungary (5.34%, but caution is needed because of sampling strategy29). In the case of host populations where this lineage was absent, we computed the highest frequency F of haplogroup H that could be present but escaped our sampling n with a 95% probability (Poisson distribution 1−e−Fn=0.95) (Supplementary Table S8). For the host populations of Spain (n=253), Greece (n=100), Romania (n=144), and Ukraine (n=42), the probabilities were accordingly low (1.2%, 3%, 2.1%, and 7.1%, respectively).
www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2015201
A look at the minimum spanning tree of the PCA component 1 and 2 of the SNPs of the H-M82 in the FTDNA database shows that there are deep divergences with samples from Turkey, Israel, Arabia, Romani, Kashmir, Gangetic plains, Tamils forming major nodes. The approximate time of divergence is probably 2500 years to 1500 years. These are the time of the Persian and Greek occupation of the cities around Indus Valley. The split of some these ancient individuals into Turkey, Arabia and Israel could be explained by Greek occupation and movement of these people along with the Greek armies during that time. The further split of Romani after the fall of the Greek cities in Medieval times probably caused the groups supporting the Greeks to move into Europe as Romanis.
[Image: hm82mintree-illus.png]


Hello thanks you for this information
is true there some  Romani People belong a Haplogroup E-L618 and R-M269 and R1a ?
JonikW likes this post
Target: CapsianWGS_scaled
Distance: 1.2510% / 0.01251049
37.2 Iberomaurusian
36.8 Early_European_Farmer
12.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
8.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
4.8 SSA
0.4 Iran_Neolithic
FTDNA : 91% North Africa +<2% Bedouin + <2  Southern-Levantinfo + <1 Sephardic Jewish + 3% Malta +  3%  Iberian Peninsula
23andME :  100% North Africa

WGS ( Y-DNA and mtDNA)
Y-DNA: E-A30032< A30480 ~1610 CE
mtDNA: V25b 800CE ? ( age mtDNA not accurate )
Reply
#3
(10-17-2023, 07:24 PM)Capsian20 Wrote:
(10-01-2023, 07:48 PM)tipirneni Wrote: [Image: 41431_2016_BFejhg2015201_Fig1_HTML.jpg?as=webp]
In addition to H-M52 and its derivate H-M82 haplogroups, three non-Indian lineages (I-P259, J-M92, and J-M67) were defined as founders (Figure 1 and Supplementary Figure S1). I-P259 is present in all Roma groups (except in Spanish Roma) and absent in our non-Roma populations (with the exception of one Hungarian). The I-P259 network showed a star-like profile with reduced internal diversity (Supplementary Figure S2B). This suggests that the mutation might have appeared in the Roma population very recently and probably once, and spread due to drift. The founder lineages J-M92 and J-M67 are present in both Roma and hosts, as well as in the populations found in the Roma migration way out-of-India.47 Both lineages showed a star-like pattern in Roma with the exception of some individuals.
The frequencies of the Indian Y-chromosome H haplogroup (present in up to 44% of male Roma) were found to be absent or at very low frequencies in host populations (1.03% in Bulgaria, n=97 and 0.62% in Slovakia, n=161) but at a moderate frequency in Hungary (5.34%, but caution is needed because of sampling strategy29). In the case of host populations where this lineage was absent, we computed the highest frequency F of haplogroup H that could be present but escaped our sampling n with a 95% probability (Poisson distribution 1−e−Fn=0.95) (Supplementary Table S8). For the host populations of Spain (n=253), Greece (n=100), Romania (n=144), and Ukraine (n=42), the probabilities were accordingly low (1.2%, 3%, 2.1%, and 7.1%, respectively).
www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2015201
A look at the minimum spanning tree of the PCA component 1 and 2 of the SNPs of the H-M82 in the FTDNA database shows that there are deep divergences with samples from Turkey, Israel, Arabia, Romani, Kashmir, Gangetic plains, Tamils forming major nodes. The approximate time of divergence is probably 2500 years to 1500 years. These are the time of the Persian and Greek occupation of the cities around Indus Valley. The split of some these ancient individuals into Turkey, Arabia and Israel could be explained by Greek occupation and movement of these people along with the Greek armies during that time. The further split of Romani after the fall of the Greek cities in Medieval times probably caused the groups supporting the Greeks to move into Europe as Romanis.
[Image: hm82mintree-illus.png]


Hello thanks you for this information
is true there some  Romani People belong a Haplogroup E-L618 and R-M269 and R1a ?

The main ydna line is  Y Haplogroup H-BY47158 was born around the year 696 CE diverged from H-M5875 part of H-M82. The others are picked up on the way. There are also strong mtDNA associated such as M5, U3b etc..
JonikW likes this post
Salkhit 625 SNP, Otzi 803 SNP, Mik15 798 SNP, RISE493 1335 SNP, I11456 1024 SNP, I7718 980 SNP, I9041 512S
Target: tipirneni:dante
Chebyshev distance: 0.64%
79.0 IRN_SIS_BA2
12.4 ITA_Daunian
8.6 Poland_Viking.SG
Reply
#4
Has anyone identified these lines on FamilyTreeDNA or at least 23andme?
Reply
#5
(03-07-2024, 11:36 AM)Artmar Wrote: Has anyone identified these lines on FamilyTreeDNA or at least 23andme?

These above samples used for the Tree are from FTDNA people of Indian origin and H y-dna which shows them are Romani or Indian or Saudi or Iran or Israel etc...
Salkhit 625 SNP, Otzi 803 SNP, Mik15 798 SNP, RISE493 1335 SNP, I11456 1024 SNP, I7718 980 SNP, I9041 512S
Target: tipirneni:dante
Chebyshev distance: 0.64%
79.0 IRN_SIS_BA2
12.4 ITA_Daunian
8.6 Poland_Viking.SG
Reply
#6
(03-07-2024, 10:18 PM)tipirneni Wrote: These above samples used for the Tree are from FTDNA people of Indian origin and H y-dna which shows them are Romani or Indian or Saudi or Iran or Israel etc...
Yes indeed: https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/H-BY47158/

How about a non-H haplogroups?
Their J-M67 may belong to this subclade: https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/J-Y18404/

I fail to find any I2 or G described as Romani. They also frequently belong to the R1a-Y7, I believe.
tipirneni and Capsian20 like this post
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#7
(03-08-2024, 08:43 AM)Artmar Wrote:
(03-07-2024, 10:18 PM)tipirneni Wrote: These above samples used for the Tree are from FTDNA people of Indian origin and H y-dna which shows them are Romani or Indian or Saudi or Iran or Israel etc...
Yes indeed: https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/H-BY47158/

How about a non-H haplogroups?
Their J-M67 may belong to this subclade: https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/J-Y18404/

I fail to find any I2 or G described as Romani. They also frequently belong to the R1a-Y7, I believe.

I think Romani these has Y-DNA G1 is subclade Central Asian
tipirneni likes this post
Target: CapsianWGS_scaled
Distance: 1.2510% / 0.01251049
37.2 Iberomaurusian
36.8 Early_European_Farmer
12.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
8.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
4.8 SSA
0.4 Iran_Neolithic
FTDNA : 91% North Africa +<2% Bedouin + <2  Southern-Levantinfo + <1 Sephardic Jewish + 3% Malta +  3%  Iberian Peninsula
23andME :  100% North Africa

WGS ( Y-DNA and mtDNA)
Y-DNA: E-A30032< A30480 ~1610 CE
mtDNA: V25b 800CE ? ( age mtDNA not accurate )
Reply
#8
(03-08-2024, 08:43 AM)Artmar Wrote:
(03-07-2024, 10:18 PM)tipirneni Wrote: These above samples used for the Tree are from FTDNA people of Indian origin and H y-dna which shows them are Romani or Indian or Saudi or Iran or Israel etc...
Yes indeed: https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/H-BY47158/

How about a non-H haplogroups?
Their J-M67 may belong to this subclade: https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/J-Y18404/

I fail to find any I2 or G described as Romani. They also frequently belong to the R1a-Y7, I believe.

Here those two lineages in the FTDNA tree:

H-BY47158
J-Y18404
tipirneni likes this post
Reply
#9
(03-08-2024, 08:43 AM)Artmar Wrote:
(03-07-2024, 10:18 PM)tipirneni Wrote: These above samples used for the Tree are from FTDNA people of Indian origin and H y-dna which shows them are Romani or Indian or Saudi or Iran or Israel etc...
Yes indeed: https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/H-BY47158/

How about a non-H haplogroups?
Their J-M67 may belong to this subclade: https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/J-Y18404/

I fail to find any I2 or G described as Romani. They also frequently belong to the R1a-Y7, I believe.
The J2a subclade might have been picked up by the Roma people in Caucasus or Turkey on the way to Balkans
Capsian20 likes this post
Salkhit 625 SNP, Otzi 803 SNP, Mik15 798 SNP, RISE493 1335 SNP, I11456 1024 SNP, I7718 980 SNP, I9041 512S
Target: tipirneni:dante
Chebyshev distance: 0.64%
79.0 IRN_SIS_BA2
12.4 ITA_Daunian
8.6 Poland_Viking.SG
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