Big Y700

[JMcB]

I love the new features too. A pretty mediocre platform has become an indispensable tool. My only slight worry is the potential damage to YFull, which was adding ancient matches long before FTDNA. This might remove some of the incentive for some uploaders and YFull has been amazing over the years. They even gave me my mtDNA terminal SNP V78 where FTDNA (where I tested before uploading) still has me at straight V. I've got no YFull customer matches at that level but they've gone to the trouble of adding three from scientific papers, including one from Algeria a few months back. I want FTDNA to up their mitochondrial game next -- should be a priority; there are always plenty of new testers and we're being a bit short changed. Not a great look in this day and age either.

ADDED detail.

Needless to say, I agree about YFull. They filled a gap that needed to be filled and did so for quite a few years. So I definitely hope they continue to do well. They’ve been especially important for me because a Nebula tester split my surname branch there and then, coincidentally, the same thing happened with spruithean’s surname branch. So I would suggest being there, just for the increased possibility of finding new matches.

[rmstevens2]

I recruited a bunch of my Big Y matches for YFull, but now, with FTDNA doing so much Y-DNA refinement, it's difficult to get anybody to pay an extra $50 for what YFull does. I'm not knocking YFull. I did it myself, and, as I said, I got some of my matches to do the same, but it's harder to get anyone to do it now.

[Riverman]

I recruited a bunch of my Big Y matches for YFull, but now, with FTDNA doing so much Y-DNA refinement, it's difficult to get anybody to pay an extra $50 for what YFull does. I'm not knocking YFull. I did it myself, and, as I said, I got some of my matches to do the same, but it's harder to get anyone to do it now.

Most people want to do it right, if at all, which means they have to pay the extra fee for getting the BAM-file as well. I think that was pretty clever by FTDNA, to introduce that fee, because its currently one of the main obstacles for people uploading to YFull once they know it. They have to pay double time (FTDNA and YFull), which makes you think twice.

[rmstevens2]

I recruited a bunch of my Big Y matches for YFull, but now, with FTDNA doing so much Y-DNA refinement, it's difficult to get anybody to pay an extra $50 for what YFull does. I'm not knocking YFull. I did it myself, and, as I said, I got some of my matches to do the same, but it's harder to get anyone to do it now.

Most people want to do it right, if at all, which means they have to pay the extra fee for getting the BAM-file as well. I think that was pretty clever by FTDNA, to introduce that fee, because its currently one of the main obstacles for people uploading to YFull once they know it. They have to pay double time (FTDNA and YFull), which makes you think twice.

True. Back when I did it, everybody who did the Big Y got his BAM file without paying extra for it.

[JonikW]

I recruited a bunch of my Big Y matches for YFull, but now, with FTDNA doing so much Y-DNA refinement, it's difficult to get anybody to pay an extra $50 for what YFull does. I'm not knocking YFull. I did it myself, and, as I said, I got some of my matches to do the same, but it's harder to get anyone to do it now.

Most people want to do it right, if at all, which means they have to pay the extra fee for getting the BAM-file as well. I think that was pretty clever by FTDNA, to introduce that fee, because its currently one of the main obstacles for people uploading to YFull once they know it. They have to pay double time (FTDNA and YFull), which makes you think twice.

True. Back when I did it, everybody who did the Big Y got his BAM file without paying extra for it.

I got my first one for free and if memory serves paid for the other after my upgrade. It was a canny move to charge to some extent but why penalise the customer apparently just to hinder another company's business? I seriously don't want to get into politics but if YFull was operating within the US jurisdiction I wonder whether FTDNA would have taken the risk (small though it might seem) of falling foul of the competition regulators by hindering the practice of an established business in this way. That said, annoyed as I was with them they've atoned to a large extent with their excellent new Y features.

[JMcB]

For those of us who are R1a, Goran just posted this on FT’s Big Y Facebook page:


Göran Runström

Haplogroup R1a update:

A new Big Y result for a customer with French ancestry matches an ancient sample from a mass grave in Sicily associated with a Greek army and the 480 BCE Battle of Himera. Together the modern and ancient men form a new branch R-Y46285>Y424643.

Their closest present-day patrilineal relatives are found in Saudi Arabia.

Sure makes you wonder!

Reference: "The diverse genetic origins of a Classical period Greek army" by Reitsema et al. 2022.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2205272119

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Himera_(480_BC)



The Battle of Himera 1873 By Giuseppe Sciuti

[leonardo]

I recruited a bunch of my Big Y matches for YFull, but now, with FTDNA doing so much Y-DNA refinement, it's difficult to get anybody to pay an extra $50 for what YFull does. I'm not knocking YFull. I did it myself, and, as I said, I got some of my matches to do the same, but it's harder to get anyone to do it now.

Most people want to do it right, if at all, which means they have to pay the extra fee for getting the BAM-file as well. I think that was pretty clever by FTDNA, to introduce that fee, because its currently one of the main obstacles for people uploading to YFull once they know it. They have to pay double time (FTDNA and YFull), which makes you think twice.

True. Back when I did it, everybody who did the Big Y got his BAM file without paying extra for it.

I got my first one for free and if memory serves paid for the other after my upgrade. It was a canny move to charge to some extent but why penalise the customer apparently just to hinder another company's business? I seriously don't want to get into politics but if YFull was operating within the US jurisdiction I wonder whether FTDNA would have taken the risk (small though it might seem) of falling foul of the competition regulators by hindering the practice of an established business in this way. That said, annoyed as I was with them they've atoned to a large extent with their excellent new Y features.

I was in the very first batch of Big Y. YFull not only offered their assessment for free, but gave me an entire mtDNA analysis from the BAM file. As me and some others posted about this on AG back in the day, FTDNA must have caught wind because shortly thereafter they stopped including the mtDNA material in their BAM file. At least that's how I remember it. I know you could no longer get an mtDNA analysis at YFull of your FTDNA BAM file at some point.

[rmstevens2]

For those of us who are R1a, Goran just posted this on FT’s Big Y Facebook page:


Göran Runström

Haplogroup R1a update:

A new Big Y result for a customer with French ancestry matches an ancient sample from a mass grave in Sicily associated with a Greek army and the 480 BCE Battle of Himera. Together the modern and ancient men form a new branch R-Y46285>Y424643.

Their closest present-day patrilineal relatives are found in Saudi Arabia.

Sure makes you wonder!

Reference: "The diverse genetic origins of a Classical period Greek army" by Reitsema et al. 2022.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2205272119

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Himera_(480_BC)



The Battle of Himera 1873 By Giuseppe Sciuti

That must be nice!

Wish I would get something like that, but my major subdivision of L21, DF41, doesn't even have any ancient results yet, let alone anything closer to my end of things.

When it comes, I'll probably get a medieval village idiot afflicted with Bubonic Plague. Very fitting.

[rmstevens2]

[JMcB]

A new blog post from Family Tree on how Big Y tests are processed.

Big Y Lifetime Analysis: The Myth of the Manual Review

NOVEMBER 22, 2023|IN BIG Y-700

By Katy Rowe-Schurwanz


Each Big Y test comes with a lifetime analysis of your results. Explore what the process looks like internally and [what] events could lead to a new haplogroup.


Over the past few years, some in the wider genetic genealogy community have referred to the lifetime analysis process as a “manual review” and have suggested that all Big Y testers will receive this within a couple of weeks after their results are complete.

This term has become entrenched in Big Y terminology, leading new customers to believe that after their initial results are posted, the kit will be examined individually by the Big Y team, and haplogroup changes will be implemented at that time. This is a misconception about the way results are analyzed and has led to frustration when nothing changes on the kit for weeks, months, or even years …


For the rest, see:

https://blog.familytreedna.com/big-y-man...RqXTDVqbaU

[rmstevens2]

A new blog post from Family Tree on how Big Y tests are processed.

Big Y Lifetime Analysis: The Myth of the Manual Review

NOVEMBER 22, 2023|IN BIG Y-700

By Katy Rowe-Schurwanz


Each Big Y test comes with a lifetime analysis of your results. Explore what the process looks like internally and [what] events could lead to a new haplogroup.


Over the past few years, some in the wider genetic genealogy community have referred to the lifetime analysis process as a “manual review” and have suggested that all Big Y testers will receive this within a couple of weeks after their results are complete.

This term has become entrenched in Big Y terminology, leading new customers to believe that after their initial results are posted, the kit will be examined individually by the Big Y team, and haplogroup changes will be implemented at that time. This is a misconception about the way results are analyzed and has led to frustration when nothing changes on the kit for weeks, months, or even years …


For the rest, see:

https://blog.familytreedna.com/big-y-man...RqXTDVqbaU

Great article! Thanks!

[leonardo]

Just noticed on the Globetrekker app a neat tool that actually places your ancestor in the vicinity of where he would have been at a designated time.  I'm sure it not completely accurate but still provides interesting perspective by giving an approximate location.

[Dewsloth]

For those of us who are R1a, Goran just posted this on FT’s Big Y Facebook page:


Göran Runström

Haplogroup R1a update:

A new Big Y result for a customer with French ancestry matches an ancient sample from a mass grave in Sicily associated with a Greek army and the 480 BCE Battle of Himera. Together the modern and ancient men form a new branch R-Y46285>Y424643.

Their closest present-day patrilineal relatives are found in Saudi Arabia.

Sure makes you wonder!

Reference: "The diverse genetic origins of a Classical period Greek army" by Reitsema et al. 2022.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2205272119

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Himera_(480_BC)



The Battle of Himera 1873 By Giuseppe Sciuti

That must be nice!

Wish I would get something like that, but my major subdivision of L21, DF41, doesn't even have any ancient results yet, let alone anything closer to my end of things.

When it comes, I'll probably get a medieval village idiot afflicted with Bubonic Plague. Very fitting.

If it makes you feel any better, of my three closest YDNA ancients in Discover, two (VK333/Oland and 6DT23/York) were hacked to death and the third (HID001/Hiddestorf) had an iron spear or sword point in his chest as a probable COD.  

Apparently I come from a long line of people that other people find extremely annoying - probably snorers.

[Dewsloth]

Just an observation on the Big Y test and the extended STR testing included. 
My two closest FTDNA STR matches (not including Dad) who have Big Y results:

1.  Big Y STR Differences  31 of 597
Actual SNP path:
R-M269>L23>Z2103>M12149>Z2106>Z2109>CTS7822>CTS7556>Y5592>CTS9219>BY251>FGC41517>BY250>BY1432>FT65361>Y79604>Y81100>FT181903

2.  Big Y STR Differences 33 of 610
Actual SNP path:
M269>L23>L51>P310>L151>P312>Z290>L21>S552>DF13>ZZ10_1>CTS10201>BY12521

Meanwhile my actual Big Y matches (none of whom apparently match me with STRs at any FTDNA level) are:
M269>L23>L51>P310>L151>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833>S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149>FT88174>Z43162
^^All share an 18 SNP block that began forming some time around 1300 BCE and have a TMRCA at 1 BCE.  I don't know how to check to see how far their Big Y STRs are off without doing it manually.

[Tolan]

Yfull goes into much more detail about the markers and their quality. Yfull puts them all, even those that mutate often.
yfull determined for me a more recent branch than FTDNA.
It's a sample that comes from Nebula, and if I believe this page:
https://nebula.org/blog/yfull-tutorial/
Those testing at Nebula can transfer to yfull for free to determine new branches on the tree.
This is probably why we see a lot of samples coming from Nebula, and very few from FTDNA because of the exorbitant price to recover the file.
But if after a few weeks or months, they do not contribute $49, their sample is removed from the tree, but the branch remains.
This is probably why we see a lot of isolated individuals in the Yfull tree because it is technically impossible to determine a haplogroup with a single sample...

The one who matches with me has not responded to me, has not indicated a country and does not seem to want to pay. I fear that in January it will disappear from the tree.
Since he didn't pay, I don't have access to his STR markers either. This would have been useful for me to determine if a member of R-L21 dna project, tested only for L21, is part of our branch.
He is American and is believed to be of Irish origin.

The new haplogroup found dates from 600 CE according to yfull.
And therefore, knowing if this American is indeed from my haplogroup would allow us to have a favorable clue to the fact that my patrilineal lineage would come from the migration of Bretons towards Brittany in the 4th and 5th centuries...

I'm between excitement and frustration...