Sample from Nalchik splits R1b1a2-V1636

[Kale]

Tutkaul and WSHG are very different. The former has ~25% Iran_N related ancestry, the latter has 'Paleosiberian' (UKY/Kolyma) ancestry.
More importantly though is do those models feature CHG?

[VladMC]

This admixture of Progress is most likely from the Tutkaul, perhaps through the Celteminar culture, and not from Siberia.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Code:

RUS_N_MiddleDon_Golubaya_Krinitsa:NEO212__BC_5443,0.113823,0.07718,0.073539,0.143413,-0.005539,0.042949,-0.00611,-0.005538,-0.032928,-0.067063,0.005359,-0.00015,0.007433,-0.025735,0.030673,0.017634,0.009127,0.003421,-0.001383,0.021135,0.009982,0.012736,0.002095,-0.017834,-0.00455
RUS_N_MiddleDon_Golubaya_Krinitsa:NEO113__BC_5348,0.118376,0.082258,0.074293,0.158917,-0.016311,0.056615,-0.00188,0.003461,-0.025565,-0.081642,0.018025,-0.013938,0.014569,-0.030277,0.050759,0.019491,0.007953,0.003294,-0.003897,0.02126,0.002745,-0.005441,-0.007888,-0.015424,-0.003712
RUS_N_MiddleDon_Golubaya_Krinitsa:NEO210__BC_5158,0.114961,0.084289,0.07467,0.145351,0.00677,0.048248,0.00188,-0.001615,-0.018203,-0.058862,-0.006983,-0.004346,0.010852,-0.028901,0.043566,0.016971,-0.007302,0.0019,0.002891,0.016008,0.024582,-0.001484,-0.017378,-0.017954,0.001317
RUS_Khvalynsk_En:I0434__BC_4975,0.120652,0.057885,0.049403,0.145997,-0.04647,0.049364,-0.00893,-0.020076,-0.058085,-0.084558,0.010718,-0.008393,0.001635,-0.039085,0.030809,0.016839,-0.009909,0.000253,-0.005028,0.012756,-0.009733,0.003586,0.012818,0.005302,-0.006826
RUS_Progress_En:PG2001__BC_4900,0.112685,0.079211,0.008674,0.105299,-0.055087,0.044344,0.00376,-0.007154,-0.077719,-0.076904,0.00682,-0.001049,-0.006095,-0.025735,0.030809,0.000796,-0.009648,-0.004941,-0.004022,0.006253,-0.011105,0.000989,0.005916,0.003735,-0.008502
NL122__BC_4830,0.104717,0.107646,-0.00528,0.043928,-0.028005,0.022311,0.007755,0.002308,-0.051131,-0.044101,0.002761,-0.001798,-0.009812,-0.005092,0.008958,-0.004641,-0.004433,0.000633,-0.004274,0.000375,0.007736,0.001113,0.011462,-0.000602,-0.002395
RUS_Vonyuchka_En:VJ1001__BC_4280,0.112685,0.081242,0.003017,0.097869,-0.059396,0.046017,0.00564,-0.010846,-0.07956,-0.085469,0.004547,0.003147,0.000446,-0.017203,0.038002,0.012463,-0.014212,-0.003294,-0.000628,0.005378,0.008235,-0.001113,0.00912,-0.007832,-0.00958
UKR_Usatove_En:MAJ023__BC_4145,0.1161,0.107646,0.010182,0.028101,-0.005847,0.019801,-0.00047,-0.002538,-0.024747,-0.016219,0.008444,-0.003747,-0.008176,-0.014038,0.006922,0.013524,0.013821,-0.002534,-0.002137,0.000625,0.005989,0.000495,0.010969,0.003494,-0.002634
RUS_Progress_En:PG2004__BC_4138,0.1161,0.072103,0.023759,0.126294,-0.053548,0.054941,-0.00235,-0.009461,-0.069334,-0.090754,0.00747,0.004346,-0.001041,-0.024359,0.031894,0.004641,-0.015125,-0.001774,-0.000377,0.007253,-0.002121,0.004946,0.01368,0.008555,0.002754
UKR_N_Voloshskoe:NEO522__BC_4105,0.102441,0.094444,0.073161,0.138891,-0.00677,0.048806,-0.015746,-0.004154,-0.035383,-0.07089,0.005034,0.007343,0.009068,-0.027387,0.023751,0.013657,0.000391,-0.007348,0.000126,0.009755,0.008859,0.013478,-0.003204,-0.029281,-0.013771
UKR_Cernavodă_I_En:KTL006__BC_4058,0.118376,0.112724,0.032055,0.046189,-0.002154,0.01757,-0.002585,-0.004846,-0.028429,-0.024237,-0.003573,-0.00015,-0.003419,-0.008395,0.0019,0.005038,0.004042,-0.002154,0.000251,0.002751,0.00287,-0.001607,-0.003081,-0.002048,-0.005508
UKR_Cernavodă_I_En:KTL007__BC_3886,0.120652,0.11577,0.029038,0.05814,0.001231,0.015897,-0.00094,0.008307,-0.018612,-0.022597,-0.000974,-0.00045,-0.006838,-0.003716,0.015744,-0.005038,-0.015516,-0.002027,0.002137,0.002876,0.000499,0.000742,0.000863,0.001325,-0.00012
UKR_Deriivka_En:ukr104__BC_3614,0.113823,0.08632,0.062979,0.12371,0.000308,0.042949,-0.001645,0.003,-0.029247,-0.057222,0.004547,-0.006444,0.001635,-0.019818,0.033523,0.022275,0.007171,-0.001774,-0.001383,0.002626,0.01435,0.010881,-0.001232,-0.015544,-0.006826
RUS_Steppe_Maykop_o:AY2001__BC_3447,0.106994,0.049761,0.008674,0.10013,-0.074475,0.039045,-0.00846,-0.025153,-0.057471,-0.064329,0.017213,0.003747,0.000743,-0.037433,0.022665,0.017237,0.000913,-0.001647,0.001131,0.006253,-0.010357,0.004081,0.013557,0.009037,-0.006706
UKR_Cernavodă_I_En:KTL001__BC_3423,0.129758,0.110693,0.039975,0.073967,-0.006463,0.04016,0.006345,-0.001385,-0.028429,-0.047564,-0.003897,-0.001199,-0.00446,-0.015414,0.021851,0.015248,0.010822,-0.007728,0.003268,0.00988,-0.00262,0.002968,0.002095,0.01687,0.007065
RUS_Steppe_Maykop_o:IV3002__BC_3251,0.106994,0.099522,-0.015085,0.035853,-0.043085,0.01255,0.005875,-0.009,-0.058903,-0.040092,0.00065,0.007493,-0.015907,-0.016102,0.013572,-0.003978,0.005867,-0.002534,-0.00264,-0.004877,0.001747,0.005441,0.001972,0.005302,-0.007305
RUS_Steppe_Maykop_o:SA6013__BC_3217,0.094473,0.073118,-0.019233,0.062985,-0.060627,0.016176,0.011281,-0.014999,-0.04704,-0.063054,0.011692,0.002398,-0.003419,-0.030965,0.026465,0.01127,0.022556,-0.003547,-0.004274,0.000125,-0.001497,-0.001978,0.009367,-0.004579,-0.005748
RUS_Steppe_Maykop:SA6004__BC_3209,0.113823,0.017264,0.046386,0.152457,-0.075399,0.046017,-0.020211,-0.032306,-0.054608,-0.084011,0.009094,-0.004946,0.010852,-0.0417,0.027687,0.015911,-0.007953,-0.008995,-0.005782,0.0005,-0.019715,0.011376,0.012571,0.00735,-0.004431

[rmstevens2]

FTDNA Discover does not yet reflect the new information regarding R-BY15337. I asked FTDNA's Göran Runström about it over at the Facebook R1b Project group. Here's his reply:

I think we have enough information to include Nalchick 1 in this week's update, but the split TMRCA estimate may not be available until next week.

[rmstevens2]

FTDNA Discover hasn't been updated yet, but the FTDNA Block Tree already reflects the new BY15337 information. I realize jdean actually mentioned that earlier in this thread, but I wanted to post a screenshot showing both P297 (and its block) and BY15337 (and its smaller block) under L389. 

BTW, V1636 has a huge block of SNPs. I'm not posting a screenshot of that one!

[rmstevens2]

FTDNA Discover has been updated with the new info gleaned from the recent discovery of "Nalchik 1" (NL122). 

[Kale]

R-L389: 14,607BC
R-BY15337: 14,574BC.
Nalchik, R-BY15337*
Dang, did he only have like 1 derived snp on the (former) V1636 block?

[rmstevens2]

R-L389: 14,607BC
R-BY15337: 14,574BC.
Nalchik, R-BY15337*
Dang, did he only have like 1 derived snp on the (former) V1636 block?

That V1636 block is so enormous there must be some more shoes that will drop sooner or later.

Here's a screenshot of the monster.

[alchemist223]

For whatever reason, FTDNA has definitely added more ancient DNA samples to their trees than YFull.

[rmstevens2]

For whatever reason, FTDNA has definitely added more ancient DNA samples to their trees than YFull.

At the risk of sounding like an FTDNA cheerleader, that's an excellent reason why anyone who cares about his Y-DNA line heritage should test with FTDNA. I'm so glad I did.

[rmstevens2]

R-L389: 14,607BC
R-BY15337: 14,574BC.
Nalchik, R-BY15337*
Dang, did he only have like 1 derived snp on the (former) V1636 block?

That V1636 block is so enormous there must be some more shoes that will drop sooner or later.

Here's a screenshot of the monster.

That is 121 SNPs in the V1636 block. That's some kind of massive bottleneck, if that's what it was. 

Since an ancient sample from Nalchik in the North Caucasus piedmont broke that loose from the few SNPs in the BY15337 block, maybe future samples from the same general vicinity will further parse that huge block. 

Thoughts?

[RCO]

The Mesolithic population South of the Caucasus preserved several ancient branching points in different haplogroups, normal to a very ancient population continuously living in the same area for a long time.

[Riverman]

For whatever reason, FTDNA has definitely added more ancient DNA samples to their trees than YFull.

That's not just true for the ancient DNA, but for modern samples placements as well. My branch has a Sardinian which YFull didn't assign.