Can we talk Cider?

[SMJ]

As I live in Gloucestershire, Sunday roast was accompanied by a bottle of the local area's finest apple cider. Although the Wassail mentions beer, the traditional drink for a Wassail is a good glug of West Country Cider. 

Wassail! wassail! all over the town,
Our toast it is white and our ale it is brown;
Our bowl it is made of the white maple tree;
With the wassailing bowl, we'll drink to thee.

Here's to our horse, and to his right ear,
A happy new year as e'er he did see,
With my wassailing bowl I drink to thee.

So here is to Cherry and to his right cheek
Pray God send our master a good piece of beef
And a good piece of beef that may we all see
With the wassailing bowl, we'll drink to thee.

Here's to our mare, and to her right eye,
God send our mistress a good Christmas pie;
A good Christmas pie as e'er I did see,
With my wassailing bowl I drink to thee.

So here is to Broad Mary and to her broad horn
May God send our master a good crop of corn
And a good crop of corn that may we all see
With the wassailing bowl, we'll drink to thee.

And here is to Fillpail and to her left ear
Pray God send our master a happy New Year
And a happy New Year as e'er he did see
With the wassailing bowl, we'll drink to thee.

Here's to our cow, and to her long tail,
God send our master us never may fail
Of a cup of good beer: I pray you draw near,
And our jolly wassail it's then you shall hear.

Come butler, come fill us a bowl of the best
Then we hope that your soul in heaven may rest
But if you do draw us a bowl of the small
Then down shall go butler, bowl and all.

Be here any maids? I suppose here be some;
Sure they will not let young men stand on the cold stone!
Sing hey O, maids! come trole back the pin,
And the fairest maid in the house let us all in.

Then here's to the maid in the lily white smock
Who tripped to the door and slipped back the lock
Who tripped to the door and pulled back the pin
For to let these jolly wassailers in.

Gloucestershire Trad 18th Century (or earlier)

Photo © Dunkertons Cider

[JonikW]

As I live in Gloucestershire, Sunday roast was accompanied by a bottle of the local area's finest apple cider. Although the Wassail mentions beer, the traditional drink for a Wassail is a good glug of West Country Cider. 

Wassail! wassail! all over the town,
Our toast it is white and our ale it is brown;
Our bowl it is made of the white maple tree;
With the wassailing bowl, we'll drink to thee.

Here's to our horse, and to his right ear,
A happy new year as e'er he did see,
With my wassailing bowl I drink to thee.

So here is to Cherry and to his right cheek
Pray God send our master a good piece of beef
And a good piece of beef that may we all see
With the wassailing bowl, we'll drink to thee.

Here's to our mare, and to her right eye,
God send our mistress a good Christmas pie;
A good Christmas pie as e'er I did see,
With my wassailing bowl I drink to thee.

So here is to Broad Mary and to her broad horn
May God send our master a good crop of corn
And a good crop of corn that may we all see
With the wassailing bowl, we'll drink to thee.

And here is to Fillpail and to her left ear
Pray God send our master a happy New Year
And a happy New Year as e'er he did see
With the wassailing bowl, we'll drink to thee.

Here's to our cow, and to her long tail,
God send our master us never may fail
Of a cup of good beer: I pray you draw near,
And our jolly wassail it's then you shall hear.

Come butler, come fill us a bowl of the best
Then we hope that your soul in heaven may rest
But if you do draw us a bowl of the small
Then down shall go butler, bowl and all.

Be here any maids? I suppose here be some;
Sure they will not let young men stand on the cold stone!
Sing hey O, maids! come trole back the pin,
And the fairest maid in the house let us all in.

Then here's to the maid in the lily white smock
Who tripped to the door and slipped back the lock
Who tripped to the door and pulled back the pin
For to let these jolly wassailers in.

Gloucestershire Trad 18th Century (or earlier)

Photo © Dunkertons Cider

Thanks for starting this thread SMJ. I'm Bristol born and bred and share your love of good cider. For some years I've compiled a nerdy personal list of all the ciders I try, and I score them from one to five stars as well as noting my impressions. It's quite handy because my memory isn't great and I can save cash when I spot something in a shop, check up and see I once had it and gave it a poor review.

Out of the very few ciders that I've awarded five stars to, I'd like to single out King Brain from their farm in Somerset. I recently stopped by and bought an old-school jerry can of their Vintage and another of their Yarlington. It's the kind of stuff I remember drinking as a youngster on visits to the Cheddar area and to Devon. I also like that there's a sign telling you to beep your horn when you drive into the farmyard for cider so that they come out.

Sheppy's, a big Somerset maker I've always prized, still does a great Kingston Black among others, as well as their mass market ones. I'm a fan of the traditional West Country strength when it comes to real cider, ideally in the 8 percent range. I like cloudiness too.

But that said, I enjoy Norman ciders as much as those from Gloucestershire and further west, and the best of those are usually fixed at 5 percent. Their cider apples were apparently one of the benefits of the Norman Conquest for us because that's how they were introduced here. Our own varieties then evolved from those but I can certainly taste the resemblance at times.

I'll single out Cidre de la Flaguerie (Brut) as a Norman that I've particularly enjoyed out of the many I've had over the years on trips to that part of France. I also like English ciders from further east, including Kent. But for me, using dessert apples rather than the (unpalatable) cider varieties never really cuts it and I enjoy a good West Country or Norman cider most of all.

ADD: I neglected to mention that Wales of course has some good ciders including the quite widely available Black Dragon, Gwynt y Ddraig. Out of the Dunkertons range on your pic, I've only had Black Fox. That gets a strong four stars from me. I've also enjoyed several Galician and Asturian ciders over the years. That northern Spanish tradition should be more widely known.

[SMJ]

Hi JonikW,

When I was younger I used to go gliding from the club above Cheddar, and the weekend usually finished with a wedge of genuine farmhouse cheddar, a chunk of fresh bread and a flagon of cider all produced at the same farm - happy memories and a lifelong love for the combination. Totally different to the experience found in most pubs at the time which consisted of over-chilled Blackthorn or Strongbow, processed cheese and a couple of rounds of Mother's Pride. Thankfully things have moved on for the better.

Dunkertons produce a Kingston Black and other single varietal ciders, but my son will agree with you that Sheppy's Kingston Black is in the top half dozen.

Black Dragon from Gwynt y Ddraig is a fine drink, can be found in a lot of Wetherspoon's pubs now (The Royal Hop Pole in Tewkesbury is my nearest - flooding permitted), but I recently found it in Aberystwyth Morrisons too.

Ciders produced by the Williams Brothers from Caerphilly is generally good too.

Black Fox can vary and last year I think the Premium Reserve had a more rounded taste, worth rechecking every year to see which is best. Costs me a fortune every time I call into their shop.

[alanarchae]

most lethal cider i’ve ever had was Old Rosie. Extremely strong! Never again LOL

[JonikW]

Hi JonikW,

When I was younger I used to go gliding from the club above Cheddar, and the weekend usually finished with a wedge of genuine farmhouse cheddar, a chunk of fresh bread and a flagon of cider all produced at the same farm - happy memories and a lifelong love for the combination. Totally different to the experience found in most pubs at the time which consisted of over-chilled Blackthorn or Strongbow, processed cheese and a couple of rounds of Mother's Pride. Thankfully things have moved on for the better.

Dunkertons produce a Kingston Black and other single varietal ciders, but my son will agree with you that Sheppy's Kingston Black is in the top half dozen.

Black Dragon from Gwynt y Ddraig is a fine drink, can be found in a lot of Wetherspoon's pubs now (The Royal Hop Pole in Tewkesbury is my nearest - flooding permitted), but I recently found it in Aberystwyth Morrisons too.

Ciders produced by the Williams Brothers from Caerphilly is generally good too.

Black Fox can vary and last year I think the Premium Reserve had a more rounded taste, worth rechecking every year to see which is best. Costs me a fortune every time I call into their shop.

I'd love to try those Williams Brothers Caerphilly ciders, as someone who spent a lot of time in that exact area as a kid. I don't think I ever have. You'll have very similar memories of cider to me then, including enjoying the offerings of some of the most traditional producers through the transformation from the once ubiquitous country-bumpkin labels to the modern hipsterish branding.

I bought a couple of flagons of cider at the Hunts farm in Devon in the early 1990s and hung onto one of the labels, which I kept inside a Camra cider book that I bought around that time and still have today.



It's interesting to compare it with the same producer's current labelling. All the ciders I've tried from their modern range are very good, but they lack some of the rustic scrumpy character that their ancestors had, if memory serves.

I find it hard to find West Country cider in Kent but my wife buys me a couple of bottles of Henry Westons vintage medium in the weekly Lidl shop. That Herefordshire cider spends some time in oak vats and to my palate is a decent enough “table cider,” as I like to think of it. At 8.2 percent it's also in my ideal strength bracket for cider (although I prefer my beers weaker).

[rmstevens2]

I can't comment much on British cider. The only brand I've ever tried was Thatchers Gold. I liked it, but back in the summer of 2015 when I visited Wales and SW England I spent most of my time and money on the excellent ales there.

My wife really developed a liking for Thatchers Gold and usually had that when I was drinking beer.

I didn't see it mentioned above, so maybe it's not that highly regarded?

I've tried several U.S. brands of cider, including Angry Orchard and Woodchuck, and some whose names I can't remember. I must be easy to please, because I can't recall even one I didn't like.

[SMJ]

I spent several weekends at various 'Young Farmers' parties growing up in the Shropshire hills. One farm I worked on as a youth in the 1970s was half in Wales and half in England - who knows what troubles they had with the split legislation and regulations with Covid recently. All of them had their own setup producing cider every year. Most were barely drinkable, but the occasional one was excellent.

I pass through the Weston's shop in Much Marcle on my way between Gloucestershire and Shrewsbury most months, and it's the goto commercial cider for most of the family. Incidentally, the Aldi and Lidl West Country ciders (about £1.20-£1.50 a bottle) are both produced by Weston's and listed as such on the bottle, just aged less in the barrel and cheaper. Very good for cooking... and drinking.

I would put Thatchers in the heavily promoted, low ABV and over chilled category. However, I have been drinking the Spiced Apple cider on the run up to Christmas in the local pub, so some of the advertising must work - I do have to let it warm up a bit before I drink it though. Will have to keep an eye on Thatcher's though, it's a bit like Doom Bar beer from Sharp's which was excellent until Sharp's was bought by Molson Coors - you can't even guarantee Doom Bar is brewed in Cornwall anymore!

My local pub has a cider & gin festival every year and the ciders go down very easily on a hot summer's day, favourite from last year was a range from Lilley's of Frome in Somerset. Crazy Goat, a 6.8% blend of cider & perry was very easy to drink, along with Bee Sting a 6.8% perry and Gladiator cider at 8.4%. All traditional still drinks.

[Anglesqueville]

Jonikw mentioned the ciders from the Flaguerie. It is indeed one of the best ciders sold in this region of Normandy (between Caen and Bayeux) which is the heart of cider production. Several sites sell their products, but I don't know if they ship outside of France. Here, north of the Seine, we produce ciders which are less attractive, because they are harsher and less sweet. This is due somewhat to a colder climate, and especially to less rich varieties of apples. Until this year, I myself produced a very interesting cider. But the last storm ravaged my orchard, and I'm afraid it's over for me.

[JonikW]

I can't comment much on British cider. The only brand I've ever tried was Thatchers Gold. I liked it, but back in the summer of 2015 when I visited Wales and SW England I spent most of my time and money on the excellent ales there.

My wife really developed a liking for Thatchers Gold and usually had that when I was drinking beer.

I didn't see it mentioned above, so maybe it's not that highly regarded?

I've tried several U.S. brands of cider, including Angry Orchard and Woodchuck, and some whose names I can't remember. I must be easy to please, because I can't recall even one I didn't like.

Thatchers Gold is decent enough but I'm pretty confident that if you like that you would love some of the better ciders we've mentioned. 

I've had a good experience with some Thatchers Vintage bottles of late. Each year is labelled and every harvest produces a different experience. I would avoid their Haze brand because it basically tastes like an unexciting soft drink.

My own memories of Thatchers in times past are very positive. I sometimes used to drink at a proper old cider pub in Somerset. It was low ceilinged and had muskets on the walls and they weren't there as part of some modern marketing thing.

The cider on tap there was unlabelled. The bar staff told me it was supplied by Thatchers but they couldn't state the strength because it varied. It must have been in the range of white wine because two pints each were always enough to send me and my brother on our way with a bit of a stagger in our step. The joys of being young.

ADD: Forgot to say that Wetherspoons pubs in the UK sell Angry Orchard. I often drink it when I'm in one. At the Imperial in Exeter, Wetherspoons have incredibly good Devon and Somerset ciders. I'm sad my son has finished uni now so I no longer have cause to cross the country and enjoy them.