Z49>Z142>Z150>FGC12381, Y3140 > FGC12378, Y3142

[Mitchell-Atkins]

Revisiting Migrations in Archaeology:: The Aisne-Marne and the Hunsrück-Eifel Cultures

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...l_Cultures

Towards New Lands: The Champagne – Italy ConnectionFollowing  this  overview  of  migrations,  I  will  now  discuss  two  specific  Iron Age  case  studies  which provide  evidence  of  population  movements:  the Aisne-Marne  Culture of  the  French  Champagne  and the Hunsrück-Eifel Culture of the Middle Rhine-Moselle region, with special focus on the latter (see summary in Fernández-Götz [2014], with further references).  Both regions witnessed increased social hierarchisation during the fifth century BC, which led to the erection of some of the most notable graves of the Early La Tène period and (in the case of Hunsrück-Eifel Culture) of a series of important fortified hilltop centres (Figure 2).  With more than 200 examples corresponding to the beginning of the Early La Tène period, Champagne has the greatest concentration of chariot graves of the entire ‘Celtic’ world (Demoule 1999; Diepeveen-Jansen 2001). However, around 400 BC or shortly afterwards, a sharp demographic decline occurred, which suggests  a massive  exodus of  the local  population. The exhaustive  tables published  by Charpy (2009) leave no doubt about the decline in population: the number of cemeteries that were used during the second half of the fifth century BC is 162 (excluding doubtful cases), compared to only 36 with evidence from the first decades of the fourth century BC.  These demographic changes have generally been linked with the so-called ‘Celtic migrations’ described in the Classical sources, and above all with the movement of transalpine populations to the Italic Peninsula (Kaenel 2007; Schönfelder 2010; Tomaschitz 2002). As Evans (2004: 227) summarises: The depopulation of  the region can  be directly linked  to the Galli/Keltoi  migrations discussed  in the classical histories. The temporal association is clear, similar artefact styles appear in the Italian peninsula at about the same time […], and it is obvious the populations described by the classical accounts came from somewhere. The association between the two events may not be absolute, but the correlation between the events creates a reasonable hypothesis (Figure 3).   
The displacement of a considerable part of the population of the  Champagne  to  new  lands would thus seem certain; rarely in protohistory do we find such a clear correlation between migrations mentioned in the written sources and archaeological data...On occasion,  the  decline in  archaeological data in  La Tène B  has been  postulated  as the  result of  the population emigrating to east Yorkshire, giving rise to the chariot burials of the ‘Arras Culture’.

I quote this because the FGC47869 polygon area doesn't include any of the Gaulish tribes traditionally listed as Cisalpine tribes or Iron Age British tribes...the possible exception being the Catalauni on the western edge of the polygon, dwelling in the Champagne region; which may be related to the British Catuvellauni tribe.  

But the folks involved in the "massive exodus" from the Marne and Moselle areas had to go somewhere.  Note:  Per the paper, this was not a "total exodus"

As I mentioned before, so far U152 doesn't appear in Britain until after 400 BC, so this exodus may explain how FGC47869>FGC12401>FGC47875 ended up in Britain and Italy.  

Comparison between Late Iron Age objects found in Marne (France) and Marzabotto (Italy) (after Mortillet 1871).

Interestingly, Marzabotto is located in the Boii part of Cisalpine Gaul, 12 miles SW of Bolgna.

By the 4th century BCE, the site was occupied by the Gaulish Boii, and it became a Roman colony and municipium with the name of Bonōnia in 196 BCE.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna

The Boii were first mentioned as a possibility for explaining how FGC47875 ended up in Italy & Hungary by Shamash in 2017

Shamash Jul 19, 2017, 10:23 PM

The Boii were a Celtic tribe attested in the 4th century BC in Italy and later in what is modern Hungary:

https://genoplot.com/discussions/topic/1...8-et-al/61

[Mitchell-Atkins]

I don't know if the creator of this map had any sources or insights when he/she placed the "?" origin of the Boii just to the east of Luxembourg in Western Germany.

This site mentions

The Boii "belong to Celtic 'La Tene' culture and most of the ancient authors refer to them as “Gauls”. (Polybius – Histories, Appian – Gallic history, Pliny the Elder – The Natural History…)

So a Gaulish La Tene location e.g. Moselle La Tene makes sense




But this "?" location within the yellow circle on map overlay below, is right in the middle Treveri territory and the FGC47869 polygon

[Mitchell-Atkins]

For reference, moving this post from the L21 Cenomani thread to here

Here's a map version that is color coded for same name in different places.  Some of these are simply listed as Cisalpine tribes by Livy, but no location in Italy is given
According to Livy (v. 34), the Bituriges, Arverni, Senones, Aedui, Ambarri, Carnutes, and Aulerci led by Bellovesus, arrived in northern Italy 

I colored coded the Biturges yellow like the Boi, because I'm wondering if there might be a connection between the 2.
They are mentioned as  Bituriges by Caesar (mid-1st c. BC),[2] Bitoúriges oi̔ Kou͂boi (Βιτούριγες οἱ Κοῦβοι) and Koúbois Bitoúrixi (Κούβοις Βιτούριξι) by Strabo (early 1st c. AD),[3] Bituriges ... qui Cubi appellantur by Pliny (1st c. AD),[4] and as Bitoúriges oi̔ Kou͂boi (Βιτούριγες οἱ Κοῦβοι) by Ptolemy (2nd c. AD).[5][6]
According to a legend recounted by Livy, the Bituriges ruled over all of Gaul ca. 600 BC. Faced with overpopulation in their homeland, the Biturigian king Ambigatus sent his sister's sons Bellovesus and Segovesus in search of new territories to settle. Segovesus headed towards the Hercynian Forest, while Bellovesus is said to have led the Gallic invasion of northern Italy.
Hercynian Forest:  an ancient and dense forest that stretched across Western Central Europe, from Northeastern France to the Carpathian Mountains, including most of Southern Germany... Relict tracts of this once-continuous forest exist with many local names... the Bohemian Forest...


May be no connection between the Bituriges and the Boi, but it is interesting that the other nearby tribes in Italy have corresponding locations in Gaul


Note: It’s been pointed out that the above map has a few errors as it relates to some tribal locations.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

LINGONES: A tribe of Cisalpine Gauls, without doubt a colony or offset of the more powerful Transalpine tribe of the same name, who, according to Livy, migrated into Italy together with the Boii, and settled with them in the plains between the Apennines and the Padus. We learn from Polybius, that they dwelt between the Boii and the Senones, apparently occupying the country about Bononia and as far eastward as the river Utis (Montone), which was the northern limit of the Senones. (Liv. 5.35; Pol. 2.17.) They seem to have been in later times so closely associated with the Boii as to be commonly considered as one nation ; hence we do not meet with any separate mention of their name in history, nor are they noticed by the geographers.

https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex...nes-geo02u

In Roman Britain, at least three named cohorts of Lingones, probably subscripted from among the Lingones who had remained in the area of Langres and Dijon are attested in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, from dedicatory inscriptions and stamped tiles. The 1st cohort of Lingones (part-mounted) is attested at Bremenium, the Roman fort at High Rochester in north Northumberland,[14] the 2nd cohort of Lingones is attested at Ilkley Roman Fort by their Prefect,[15] and the fourth cohort built part of Hadrian's Wall near Carlisle.

Just trying to find a way to tie together our Italian and British FGC12378>FGC47869>FGC12401>FGC47875 members.  Our brother branch FGC12401>FTD16929 appears to have representation in Britain and Switzerland.  The Lingones probably passed through Switzerland on their way to Northern Italy.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

Per the previously mentioned Treveri and Boii:

https://www.academia.edu/44433339/M_Karw...20_327_338

ABSTRACT Te wearing of iron imitations of popular bronze fbulae was a common custom in La Tène culture. Tis is particularly well visible in the Late La Tène period. A good example of such brooches are the four wrought iron Kostrzewski type J ‘spoon bow’ fbulae, patterned afer the cast – most typically from bronze – Schüsselfbeln. Such fbulae were particularly widely used in the so-called ‘Boii coinage zone’, with their highest concentrations coming from two sites located in that area – from a hilltop settlement on the Oberleiserberg in Lower Austria and the oppidum on the Hradiště in Stradonice in Central Bohemia. Such brooches are also found in large quantities in lands to
the north and north-west of the ‘Boii’ zone, mostly in Przeworsk and Oksywie culture graves, and in areas occupied by the Celtic Treveri. Part of these finds are dated to later times than their counterparts from La Tène culture sites in Central Europe...

Kostrzewski type J fibulae are one of the most characteristic elements of dress in the Boii coinage zone (Fig. 5). The largest collection of such brooches – 70 specimens – was found at a small hilltop settlement on the Oberleiserberg in NE Lower Austria, where they constitute the largest – by quite a margin – typological group of fibulae yielded by that site...

A small concentration of finds of Kostrzewski type J fibulae comes from the Middle Rhine area (Fig. 5)...As to areas settled by the Celtic Treveri on the west bank of the Rhine finds from three locations in contemporary Rhineland-Palatinate may be mentioned – from a cemetery at Trier-Biewer (3 finds); from a cemetery at Wederath (6 finds) and from the Martberg oppidum in Pommerania (3 finds), plus from the large settlement complex in south-western Luxemburg – from the settlement and “Lamadelaine” cemetery of the Titelberg oppidum at Pétange...



In the context of these unclear connections an interesting observation has been made by Jiří Militký (MILITKÝ 2015, 117), who has suggested that Treveri coinage may have adopted certain elements of Boii coinage. Assuming that such a process occurred around the middle of the 1st century BC, and maybe even earlier, then it doubtlessly was the result of direct contacts between the two groups.

So there appears to have been a connection between the Treveri and Boii in the 1st Century BC and possibly earlier.

[La Tene]

It appears an ancient Z150, Z12222 sample,  (just above the FGC12378 branch of this thread title)

has turned up in Les_Moidons, Bourgogne_Franche_Compt, France

Sample CGG023693
Necropolis Les Moidons and Parançot, Bourgogne_Franche_Compt,   46.878971 5.842749, 610BCE-450BCE, midpoint 530 BCE. IronAge Hallstatt mtdna haplogroup J1c3e

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/...y-material

From the supporting data file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/media-2.pdf

In which supplementary file is the Ydna calls? Is the Ynda for the other celtic sites/samples from the same study known?

[Mitchell-Atkins]

It appears an ancient Z150, Z12222 sample,  (just above the FGC12378 branch of this thread title)

has turned up in Les_Moidons, Bourgogne_Franche_Compt, France

Sample CGG023693
Necropolis Les Moidons and Parançot, Bourgogne_Franche_Compt,   46.878971 5.842749, 610BCE-450BCE, midpoint 530 BCE. IronAge Hallstatt mtdna haplogroup J1c3e

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/...y-material

From the supporting data file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/media-2.pdf

In which supplementary file is the Ydna calls? Is the Ynda for the other celtic sites/samples from the same study known?

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/...y-material

• Supplementary Tables S1-S5[supplements/584607_file05.xlsx]
  

table s1
row 223
CGG023693 Les_Moidons_Tumulus_8_1920_51 WesternEurope France Bourgogne_Franche_Compt Les_Moidons Barrow 46.878971 5.842749 Bone Petrous 750BCE-450BCE NA NA NA NA context 2560 2400 2480 -610 -450 -530 IronAge Hallstatt CGG023693 2.72805 XY J1c3e 1 0.9553 1-4460 4777-5964 6016 6018-8835 8930-16569 0.9984827 0.9966568 0.9993745 R1b1a1b1a1a2b1c1b NA NA

[La Tene]

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/...y-material

• Supplementary Tables S1-S5[supplements/584607_file05.xlsx]
  

table s1
row 223
CGG023693 Les_Moidons_Tumulus_8_1920_51 WesternEurope France Bourgogne_Franche_Compt Les_Moidons Barrow 46.878971 5.842749 Bone Petrous 750BCE-450BCE NA NA NA NA context 2560 2400 2480 -610 -450 -530 IronAge Hallstatt CGG023693 2.72805 XY J1c3e 1 0.9553 1-4460 4777-5964 6016 6018-8835 8930-16569 0.9984827 0.9966568 0.9993745 R1b1a1b1a1a2b1c1b NA NA

Cool, thanks! How were you able to determine it was  Z150, Z12222?

[Mitchell-Atkins]

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/...y-material

• Supplementary Tables S1-S5[supplements/584607_file05.xlsx]
  

table s1
row 223
CGG023693 Les_Moidons_Tumulus_8_1920_51 WesternEurope France Bourgogne_Franche_Compt Les_Moidons Barrow 46.878971 5.842749 Bone Petrous 750BCE-450BCE NA NA NA NA context 2560 2400 2480 -610 -450 -530 IronAge Hallstatt CGG023693 2.72805 XY J1c3e 1 0.9553 1-4460 4777-5964 6016 6018-8835 8930-16569 0.9984827 0.9966568 0.9993745 R1b1a1b1a1a2b1c1b NA NA

Cool, thanks! How were you able to determine it was  Z150, Z12222?

I took R1b1a1b1a1a2b1c1b and looked it up at ISOGG 2019/2020 version

R1b1a1b1a1a2b1c1b S257/Z150, S7402/Z12222, Z26720

It's the same on the 2018 version.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

The Helvetii were aligned with the Boii during Caesar's Gaulish campaigns

the Helvetii did not give up their planned emigration, but burned their homes in 58 BC.[37] They were joined by a number of tribal groups from neighbouring regions: the Raurici, the Latobrigi, the Tulingi and a group of Boii, who had besieged Noreia...the Boii who had accompanied the Helvetii would settle on their own territory as allies in the oppidum Gorgobina...at the Helvetian camp, listing in detail all men able to bear arms with their names and giving a total number for the women, children and elderly who accompanied them.[42] The numbers added up to a total of 263,000 Helvetii, 36,000 Tulingi, 14,000 Latobrigi, 23,000 Rauraci, and 32,000 Boii,

Prior to settling in present day Switzerland, it appears they were further north earlier on.

That the Helvetians originally lived in southern Germany is confirmed by the Alexandrian geographer Claudius Ptolemaios (c. 90–168 AD), who tells us of an Ἐλουητίων ἔρημος (i.e. "Helvetic deserted lands") north of the Rhine.[24] Tacitus knows that the Helvetians once settled in the swath between Rhine, Main, and the Hercynian forest.[25] The abandonment of this northern territory is now usually placed in the late 2nd century BC, around the time of the first Germanic incursions into the Roman world, when the Tigurini and Toygenoi/Toutonoi are mentioned as participants in the great raids.

This area is between the FGC47869 polygon and Bohemia, so it may be that the Boii were friendly neighbors to the Helvettii in this area.

Map of Oppida (Celtic settlements, ~200 BC - late 1st century BC).

[Mitchell-Atkins]

The Helvetii were aligned with the Boii during Caesar's Gaulish campaigns

the Helvetii did not give up their planned emigration, but burned their homes in 58 BC.[37] They were joined by a number of tribal groups from neighbouring regions: the Raurici, the Latobrigi, the Tulingi and a group of Boii, who had besieged Noreia...the Boii who had accompanied the Helvetii would settle on their own territory as allies in the oppidum Gorgobina...at the Helvetian camp, listing in detail all men able to bear arms with their names and giving a total number for the women, children and elderly who accompanied them.[42] The numbers added up to a total of 263,000 Helvetii, 36,000 Tulingi, 14,000 Latobrigi, 23,000 Rauraci, and 32,000 Boii,

Prior to settling in present day Switzerland, it appears they were further north earlier on.

That the Helvetians originally lived in southern Germany is confirmed by the Alexandrian geographer Claudius Ptolemaios (c. 90–168 AD), who tells us of an Ἐλουητίων ἔρημος (i.e. "Helvetic deserted lands") north of the Rhine.[24] Tacitus knows that the Helvetians once settled in the swath between Rhine, Main, and the Hercynian forest.[25] The abandonment of this northern territory is now usually placed in the late 2nd century BC, around the time of the first Germanic incursions into the Roman world, when the Tigurini and Toygenoi/Toutonoi are mentioned as participants in the great raids.

This area is between the FGC47869 polygon and Bohemia, so it may be that the Boii were friendly neighbors to the Helvettii in this area.

Map of Oppida (Celtic settlements, ~200 BC - late 1st century BC).

Probably a better map to show the 2nd Century BC location of Boii/Boier and Helvetii/Helvetier