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Map of ancient DE samples
#1
Map created by Passa. 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer...c7b3PWqyCI
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#2
Samples to be added just so we don't forget:

From India:
- S2487 from Rakhigarhi, India (c. 2600-2200 BC): E-PF1962

From Hungary:
- Fonyod_536 Fonyód - Mérnöki telep Hungary Middle third of 5th century 1240K This paper E1b1b1a1b1
- Hacs_21 Hács - Béndekpuszta Hungary Second half of 5th century WGS This paper E1b1b1a1b1a10a2h
- Hacs_22 Hács - Béndekpuszta Hungary Second half of 5th century WGS This paper E1b1b1a1b1a1

From Poland:
- Koński306: E-BY68465
- Masłomęcz 110: E-Z16659
- Śródka 236: E-Y3183
- Santok 400: E-FGC11451
- Śródka 255: E-BY5219
- Śródka 558: E-L17

From Denmark:
- CGG100653 KHM899 A1050/227 tooth 4 Denmark Randers Tjærby 10.10 1000-1300 90.79 E1b1b E1b1b1a1b1a10a1a
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#3
(10-16-2023, 11:09 AM)Qrts Wrote:
Quote:Ancestry and kinship in a Late Antiquity-Early Middle Ages cemetery in the Eastern Italian Alps

https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S...23)02292-7

Two new samples from South Tyrol:
Code:
2069 phase2 Area 8, US113 XY 40-45 I2 E1b1b1
2425 phase2 Area 8, US112 XY 35-40 H1e E1b1b1a1b1a

Regarding 2069:
Quote: However, five samples (2069, 2422, 2429, 2430 and 2324) shift in the plot more toward the genomic diversity of modern individuals from western and northern Europe (France and Great Britain, respectively) (Figure 2A).

Sample 2425, however, plots right with the IA Republican Italians on the PCA:
Quote:Few samples (2068, 2425, 2405 and especially 2427) shift more toward the genomic diversity of prehistoric individuals (Bronze Age and Iron Age) from Italy and south-western Europe, including ancient Sardinians.

I think that paper deserves a thread of its own:
https://genarchivist.com/showthread.php?tid=164

Both E1b1b individuals are rather Southern with a bit of Northern admixture going by this analysis, which is not the best they could have done.
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#4
Another early Slavic (possibly Germanic influence present) E-V13 sample, a medieval sample from modern Poland, Lubin:

LUB_6: E1b1b1a1b1

Lubin on the island of Wolin:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolin

From the paper:
Quote:A group of individuals from the early medieval stronghold settlement in Lubin (island
Wolin), whose location favored contacts of its inhabitants with the ports of the West
parts of the Baltic coast.

Quote:Necropolis in Lubin, st. 6, located in the southwestern part the island of Wolin, is associated with the period of operation of the stronghold located on the Hill Zamkowy, which plays an important role in the emerging structure of territorial organization Duchy of Pomerania. The town, located on an important water and communication route, it enabled control of one of the straits connecting the Szczecin Lagoon with the Pomeranian Bay


Quote:The analysis of the cemetery allows for the observation of very early phases of the penetration of Christianity in the lands of modern Poland. The first burials took place in the cemetery Christian Pomeranian Slavs.


Link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Agbd2-f...sp=sharing
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#5
(11-22-2023, 01:58 PM)Riverman Wrote: Another early Slavic (possibly Germanic influence present) E-V13 sample, a medieval sample from modern Poland, Lubin:

LUB_6: E1b1b1a1b1

Lubin on the island of Wolin:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolin

From the paper:
Quote:A group of individuals from the early medieval stronghold settlement in Lubin (island
Wolin), whose location favored contacts of its inhabitants with the ports of the West
parts of the Baltic coast.

Quote:Necropolis in Lubin, st. 6, located in the southwestern part the island of Wolin, is associated with the period of operation of the stronghold located on the Hill Zamkowy, which plays an important role in the emerging structure of territorial organization Duchy of Pomerania. The town, located on an important water and communication route, it enabled control of one of the straits connecting the Szczecin Lagoon with the Pomeranian Bay


Quote:The analysis of the cemetery allows for the observation of very early phases of the penetration of Christianity in the lands of modern Poland. The first burials took place in the cemetery Christian Pomeranian Slavs.


Link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Agbd2-f...sp=sharing

Thanks, I added the sample to the map. Interestingly, one of the samples from Lutomiersk shares their mtDNA haplogroup with me: together with another medieval sample from Niemcza, Poland, a Late Kushnarenkovo/Karayakupovo, early Volga-Kama Bulghar period sample from Tatarstan, Russia, and the Templar Grand Master Arnau de Torroja from Solsona, Spain it's one of only four confirmed T2b16 cases in the aDNA record.
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#6
A lot of new ancient E samples from Africa:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-0...70-6#Sec25
Including two E1b1b1a1b2/E-V22 individuals.

See supplementary table of the paper.
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#7
(11-29-2023, 06:36 PM)Riverman Wrote: A lot of new ancient E samples from Africa:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-0...70-6#Sec25
Including two E1b1b1a1b2/E-V22 individuals.

See supplementary table of the paper.

The new ones don't seem to have any haplogroup. But are there for the modern individuals?
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#8
(11-29-2023, 06:36 PM)Riverman Wrote: A lot of new ancient E samples from Africa:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-0...70-6#Sec25
Including two E1b1b1a1b2/E-V22 individuals.

See supplementary table of the paper.

This present study only mtDNA i don't see any new Y-DNA E1b1b
   
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Target: CapsianWGS_scaled
Distance: 1.2510% / 0.01251049
37.2 Iberomaurusian
36.8 Early_European_Farmer
12.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
8.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
4.8 SSA
0.4 Iran_Neolithic
FTDNA : 91% North Africa +<2% Bedouin + <2  Southern-Levantinfo + <1 Sephardic Jewish + 3% Malta +  3%  Iberian Peninsula
23andME :  100% North Africa

WGS ( Y-DNA and mtDNA)
Y-DNA: E-A30032< A30480 ~1610 CE
mtDNA: V25b 800CE ? ( age mtDNA not accurate )
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#9
The African paper had no new yDNA samples, I just see it now. Only those from older papers summarised...

New paper for the Balkans:
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092...23)01135-2
Don't know how many are new, but they appear to be.
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#10
(12-07-2023, 04:37 PM)Riverman Wrote: The African paper had no new yDNA samples, I just see it now. Only those from older papers summarised...

New paper for the Balkans:
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092...23)01135-2
Don't know how many are new, but they appear to be.

No new also in this study
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Target: CapsianWGS_scaled
Distance: 1.2510% / 0.01251049
37.2 Iberomaurusian
36.8 Early_European_Farmer
12.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
8.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
4.8 SSA
0.4 Iran_Neolithic
FTDNA : 91% North Africa +<2% Bedouin + <2  Southern-Levantinfo + <1 Sephardic Jewish + 3% Malta +  3%  Iberian Peninsula
23andME :  100% North Africa

WGS ( Y-DNA and mtDNA)
Y-DNA: E-A30032< A30480 ~1610 CE
mtDNA: V25b 800CE ? ( age mtDNA not accurate )
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#11
I must confess to a lot of ignorance when it comes to Y-DNA haplogroup E. So, at the risk of sounding stupid, I have a basic question. What is the current consensus on the origin of E?
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Let us now praise famous men, and our fathers that begat us.

- Wisdom of Sirach 44:1
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#12
(12-15-2023, 10:16 PM)rmstevens2 Wrote: I must confess to a lot ignorance when it comes to Y-DNA haplogroup E. So, at the risk of sounding stupid, I have a basic question. What is the current consensus on the origin of E?

Horn Africa
Target: CapsianWGS_scaled
Distance: 1.2510% / 0.01251049
37.2 Iberomaurusian
36.8 Early_European_Farmer
12.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
8.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
4.8 SSA
0.4 Iran_Neolithic
FTDNA : 91% North Africa +<2% Bedouin + <2  Southern-Levantinfo + <1 Sephardic Jewish + 3% Malta +  3%  Iberian Peninsula
23andME :  100% North Africa

WGS ( Y-DNA and mtDNA)
Y-DNA: E-A30032< A30480 ~1610 CE
mtDNA: V25b 800CE ? ( age mtDNA not accurate )
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#13
(12-15-2023, 10:17 PM)Capsian20 Wrote:
(12-15-2023, 10:16 PM)rmstevens2 Wrote: I must confess to a lot ignorance when it comes to Y-DNA haplogroup E. So, at the risk of sounding stupid, I have a basic question. What is the current consensus on the origin of E?

Horn Africa

That's kind of surprising to me. I figured E was of Eurasian origin, particularly given the fact that it and D-F974 are brother clades under DE-M145. 

I just kind of assumed (I know, dangerous) that the E clades in Africa represented back migrations that occurred at various times and that the only native African Y-DNA haplogroups are A and B. 

If E-M96 was born in the Horn of Africa, that means DE-M145 must have been there. How then did D-F974 and its offspring end up where they did, far to the east?
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Let us now praise famous men, and our fathers that begat us.

- Wisdom of Sirach 44:1
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#14
(12-15-2023, 10:23 PM)rmstevens2 Wrote:
(12-15-2023, 10:17 PM)Capsian20 Wrote:
(12-15-2023, 10:16 PM)rmstevens2 Wrote: I must confess to a lot ignorance when it comes to Y-DNA haplogroup E. So, at the risk of sounding stupid, I have a basic question. What is the current consensus on the origin of E?

Horn Africa

That's kind of surprising to me. I figured E was of Eurasian origin, particular given the fact that it and D-F974 are brother clades under DE-M145. 

I just kind of assumed (I know, dangerous) that the E clades in Africa represented back migrations that occurred at various times and that the only native African Y-DNA haplogroups are A and B. 

If E-M96 was born in the Horn of Africa, that means DE-M145 must have been there. How then did D-F974 and its offspring end up where they did, far to the east?

I have been seen there subclade D0 is from Africa and Near East from ( YEM and SAU and SRY) and USA ( African-American ) so I think origin Y-DNA DE is from Horn Africa
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/D-FT75/tree
Target: CapsianWGS_scaled
Distance: 1.2510% / 0.01251049
37.2 Iberomaurusian
36.8 Early_European_Farmer
12.8 Early_Levantine_Farmer
8.0 Steppe_Pastoralist
4.8 SSA
0.4 Iran_Neolithic
FTDNA : 91% North Africa +<2% Bedouin + <2  Southern-Levantinfo + <1 Sephardic Jewish + 3% Malta +  3%  Iberian Peninsula
23andME :  100% North Africa

WGS ( Y-DNA and mtDNA)
Y-DNA: E-A30032< A30480 ~1610 CE
mtDNA: V25b 800CE ? ( age mtDNA not accurate )
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#15
(12-15-2023, 10:23 PM)rmstevens2 Wrote:
(12-15-2023, 10:17 PM)Capsian20 Wrote:
(12-15-2023, 10:16 PM)rmstevens2 Wrote: I must confess to a lot ignorance when it comes to Y-DNA haplogroup E. So, at the risk of sounding stupid, I have a basic question. What is the current consensus on the origin of E?

Horn Africa

That's kind of surprising to me. I figured E was of Eurasian origin, particular given the fact that it and D-F974 are brother clades under DE-M145. 

I just kind of assumed (I know, dangerous) that the E clades in Africa represented back migrations that occurred at various times and that the only native African Y-DNA haplogroups are A and B. 

If E-M96 was born in the Horn of Africa, that means DE-M145 must have been there. How then did D-F974 and its offspring end up where they did, far to the east?

I think Y-DNA E should be African, so East Africa makes sense to me as well. It's just that it has deeper autosomal ancestries acquired through Shum Laka(Y-dna A000, yeah newly discovered even deeper root) and Pygmies(Y-DNA B) also Bushmen to South (Y-DNA A).
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