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The proto indo europeans had mostly black hair and brown eyes
#1
This is a very interesting channel, he does analyses of phenotype and pygmentation of ancient dna samples.
In this video he took a look at some yamnaya dna sample,and while these were not the real source of indo european ancestry , that was likely Sredny Stog, genetically they were almost identical to each other. It would be interesting to see some results for Sredny stog but i doubt it will be diferent. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvrH7SF--kg&t=541s

It is weird to conceive how Globular amphorae agriculturalists were as light as they were , meanwhile the same seemed not to be the case for iberian neolithic farmers for example, even tho both groups were basicaly 70% AHG, 30% WHG.


[Image: BtHiOQP.png]
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#2
I know this may not be the received opinion, but my understanding is that both Yamnaya and Sredny Stog were Pre-Indo-European.

It can be seen from the oracles that Yamnaya is a mix of Northeast Euro (Ukrainian-like) and Iran/Caucasus (Tabasaran-like) ancestries. They will also be slightly shifted towards South Siberia on most PCA when compared to modern eastern Europeans.

As for, Globular Amphora, they have more Iron Gates or "Baltic HG"-related admixture, while in Iberian farmers it is mostly typical WHG.

I think that in both cases, it is admixture from this Northeastern European source that is responsible for the differences you mentioned. It is an ancestral component that is definitely older than the Bronze Age and its connection to the Indo-European spread becomes more and more apparent. 

Anyway, interesting channel indeed.
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#3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtqDyf_zi8I

New video on Yamnaya´s phenotype.
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#4
I've seen some studies say GAC were dark, with similar pigmentation to Steppe. Others say they were light. I don't understand why
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#5
(01-01-2024, 02:13 AM)billh Wrote: I've seen some studies say GAC were dark, with similar pigmentation to Steppe. Others say they were light. I don't understand why

In GAC blondism seem to have been more frequent than in steppe but they were still quite "mediterranean" in pigmentation similarly to sardinians for example.
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#6
Blondist traits post-date the IE expansion by a few hundred years. They seem to appear overnight in some very specific R1a-carrying Corded Ware people, although nowadays it's mostly associated with I1 carriers in Northern Europe. I say specific parts of R1a CW carriers, because BB-derived Italo-Celtic people don't particularly have incidences of blondism, even thought they descend from CW. It's primarily a Germanic trait, or populations that have integrated Germanic populations heavily like Slavs.

Not to say that this section of CW accounts for ALL blondist traits (we have even EEFs with it), but they were responsible for most of it.

The most important part though is that it's been proven countless times that steppe =/= blondism.

(1) Italian steppe invasions didn't change phenotypes when compared to local EEFs
(2) In Estonia, lower level of steppe = higher levels of blondism
(3) Anglo-Saxons had less steppe than Brittonic Celts, but higher incidences of blondism
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#7
(04-06-2024, 07:28 PM)targaryen Wrote: Blondist traits post-date the IE expansion by a few hundred years. They seem to appear overnight in some very specific R1a-carrying Corded Ware people, although nowadays it's mostly associated with I1 carriers in Northern Europe. I say specific parts of R1a CW carriers, because BB-derived Italo-Celtic people don't particularly have incidences of blondism, even thought they descend from CW. It's primarily a Germanic trait, or populations that have integrated Germanic populations heavily like Slavs.

Not to say that this section of CW accounts for ALL blondist traits (we have even EEFs with it), but they were responsible for most of it.

The most important part though is that it's been proven countless times that steppe =/= blondism.

(1) Italian steppe invasions didn't change phenotypes when compared to local EEFs
(2) In Estonia, lower level of steppe = higher levels of blondism
(3) Anglo-Saxons had less steppe than Brittonic Celts, but higher incidences of blondism

Blondism is a term used before genetics and I've seen it used when referring to any hair that is not black, which includes lighter brown and red. This is in contract to actual blonde hair which is a mesolithic trait which appears to be autochtonous to north by north east Europe as far back as the mesolithic. The Tarim mummies from 2000 BC have light hair (red-brown) and light skin, so I'm not sure that the steppe was all black hair and dark skin, this could be just that transect in time.
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#8
(04-08-2024, 02:04 AM)Awood Wrote:
(04-06-2024, 07:28 PM)targaryen Wrote: Blondist traits post-date the IE expansion by a few hundred years. They seem to appear overnight in some very specific R1a-carrying Corded Ware people, although nowadays it's mostly associated with I1 carriers in Northern Europe. I say specific parts of R1a CW carriers, because BB-derived Italo-Celtic people don't particularly have incidences of blondism, even thought they descend from CW. It's primarily a Germanic trait, or populations that have integrated Germanic populations heavily like Slavs.

Not to say that this section of CW accounts for ALL blondist traits (we have even EEFs with it), but they were responsible for most of it.

The most important part though is that it's been proven countless times that steppe =/= blondism.

(1) Italian steppe invasions didn't change phenotypes when compared to local EEFs
(2) In Estonia, lower level of steppe = higher levels of blondism
(3) Anglo-Saxons had less steppe than Brittonic Celts, but higher incidences of blondism

Blondism is a term used before genetics and I've seen it used when referring to any hair that is not black, which includes lighter brown and red. This is in contract to actual blonde hair which is a mesolithic trait which appears to be autochtonous to north by north east Europe as far back as the mesolithic. The Tarim mummies from 2000 BC have light hair (red-brown) and light skin, so I'm not sure that the steppe was all black hair and dark skin, this could be just that transect in time.

Mummies tend to have lighter hair because of melanin degradation over time, you will find even peruvian mummies with light hair wich surely had black hair when alive. SHG had little to do with sredny stog/ yamnaya, SHG so far seem to have been the original pseudo albinos, not their heavily east asian ANE ancestors.
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#9
(04-08-2024, 02:04 AM)Awood Wrote:
(04-06-2024, 07:28 PM)targaryen Wrote: Blondist traits post-date the IE expansion by a few hundred years. They seem to appear overnight in some very specific R1a-carrying Corded Ware people, although nowadays it's mostly associated with I1 carriers in Northern Europe. I say specific parts of R1a CW carriers, because BB-derived Italo-Celtic people don't particularly have incidences of blondism, even thought they descend from CW. It's primarily a Germanic trait, or populations that have integrated Germanic populations heavily like Slavs.

Not to say that this section of CW accounts for ALL blondist traits (we have even EEFs with it), but they were responsible for most of it.

The most important part though is that it's been proven countless times that steppe =/= blondism.

(1) Italian steppe invasions didn't change phenotypes when compared to local EEFs
(2) In Estonia, lower level of steppe = higher levels of blondism
(3) Anglo-Saxons had less steppe than Brittonic Celts, but higher incidences of blondism

Blondism is a term used before genetics and I've seen it used when referring to any hair that is not black, which includes lighter brown and red. This is in contract to actual blonde hair which is a mesolithic trait which appears to be autochtonous to north by north east Europe as far back as the mesolithic. The Tarim mummies from 2000 BC have light hair (red-brown) and light skin, so I'm not sure that the steppe was all black hair and dark skin, this could be just that transect in time.

"Blondism" is meant to refer to the phenomenon of blonde hair/blue eyes, usually (but not always) associated with the KITLG gene.
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