Coming Soon: Y-DNA Haplogroups for Family Finder

[ArmandoR1b]

My concern about the gentleman whose V2 test only advanced 4 levels is probably overstated.

I forgot that he actually belongs to an uncommon clade of R-M269 so that explains why only 4 levels.

But.....looking at SNPs, I dont see any evidence for testing P312.   Still in blue.   That would be a nice SNP to test.  But it wasn't tested on the V3s either.  So hopefully a decent sample of SNPs downstream of P312 get tested. 


btw, there were 221 SNPs that tested positive    On the V3s, I tend to see 350 or more.
I dont know if 221 is a typical number for a V2.  I suspect they are bit low since my gentleman did not follow a typical pathway.

I would also have liked for P312 to have been tested and I am concerned that many DF27 people with v2 won't get a positive downstream SNP since DF27 wasn't tested by v3 and possibly won't be by v2. I'll post more about that later.

[rmstevens2]

I just noticed that my eldest son, who had the standard R-M269 prediction from his old Y-37 STR test, just got an R-BY166 assignment from his Family Finder results.

I've mentioned already that BY166 is in my Y-DNA pedigree a few steps upstream of my current terminal SNP. 

Still waiting for a similar assignment for his younger brother. My grandsons are the sons of my youngest son. They already got FF BY166 results. 

Oh, and I also learned just now that one of my FF matches with my surname is not related to me on the Y-chromosome line. He got an R-CTS4065 assignment. That's an R-DF27 line, so not in my line, which is an R-L21 line.

[ArmandoR1b]

Just as I had expected a kit just showed up as R-L151 and no mention of negative results so there is no way to know for sure if he is negative for P312, DF27 (which is not tested by any autosomal test), ZZ12_1, Z195, etc. It doesn't even show if negative for U152, L21, DF19, and so on either.

I really think he would be in a subclade of R-DF27 if he had been tested by the GSA kit.

So I expect a lot of R-L151 for Latin America, Spain, Hispanics in U.S., French and Portuguese when they really should mostly be in a subclade of R-DF27.

[Mabrams]

Just as I had expected a kit just showed up as R-L151 and no mention of negative results so there is no way to know for sure if he is negative for P312, DF27 (which is not tested by any autosomal test), ZZ12_1, Z195, etc. It doesn't even show if negative for U152, L21, DF19, and so on either.

I really think he would be in a subclade of R-DF27 if he had been tested by the GSA kit.

So I expect a lot of R-L151 for Latin America, Spain, and Hispanics in U.S. when they really should mostly be in a subclade of R-DF27.

Did you see a negative for U106?   I did see that.   But that is all.   

The V3 chips were (usually) pretty darn good.   L151 is such a disappointment.  Not even to U106/P312 junction.   I hope other clades do much better.

[ArmandoR1b]

Just as I had expected a kit just showed up as R-L151 and no mention of negative results so there is no way to know for sure if he is negative for P312, DF27 (which is not tested by any autosomal test), ZZ12_1, Z195, etc. It doesn't even show if negative for U152, L21, DF19, and so on either.

I really think he would be in a subclade of R-DF27 if he had been tested by the GSA kit.

So I expect a lot of R-L151 for Latin America, Spain, and Hispanics in U.S. when they really should mostly be in a subclade of R-DF27.

Did you see a negative for U106?   I did see that.   But that is all.   

The V3 chips were (usually) pretty darn good.   L151 is such a disappointment.  Not even to U106/P312 junction.   I hope other clades do much better.

FF v3 was only able to get to about 4500 ybp or about 2500 BC. 23andme v5 could get to the same subclade. So FF v3 isn't any better in that regard. But both are good enough to disprove a common ancestor in many cases.

FF v2 does show U106‐ but that isn't much help since U106 is so uncommon among Hispanics. We can't disprove a common ancestor with L151 being so common among Hispanics. FF v2 is a lot like 23andme v4 which is what I expected. I expect other subclades to be like 23andme v4.

[Mabrams]

In the last day,

The tree has grown from 364,407 to 367,768 or basically 1%.

DF27 has grown from 19,964 to 20,146. An increase of 182 or nearly 1%

Z341 has grown from 1159 to 1175. An increase of 16, which is actually over 1%

So it looks like the V3 chip FF are still rolling out more Y haplos.

My personal FF SNP-of-Interest, Z341, yesterday added 4 Z341s exactly (Z341*). Rather surprisingly, 3 out of the 4 showed up on my Y12 list. These lucky fellows have won a generalized email from me soon, inviting them to explore the BigY. I did send out a similar such email in the middle of April, and one person did add a BigY.

~~~

I also track my R-M269s on my Y12 list, as they decrease upon being updated. Every day or two, there is another drop of 10 to 20.

On May 1, 773 R-M269s with FF, eligible to be updated. Today, only 697.

[AimSmall]

How are you ascertaining tree growth? Page/link?

[Mabrams]

How are you ascertaining tree growth?  Page/link?

Current Total Tree size:
Haplotree | FamilyTreeDNA   A-PR2129.  Click on Countries (3 dots at right).   

For other clades, I type those in under Branch Name, and then Countries.

[sirdan]

I check every day, and confirm that growth is continous now.

[ArmandoR1b]

In the last day,

The tree has grown from 364,407 to 367,768 or basically 1%.

DF27 has grown from 19,964 to 20,146.  An increase of 182 or nearly 1%

Z341 has grown from 1159 to 1175.  An increase of 16, which is actually over 1%

So it looks like the V3 chip FF are still rolling out more Y haplos. 

My personal FF SNP-of-Interest, Z341, yesterday added 4 Z341s exactly (Z341*).  Rather surprisingly, 3 out of the 4 showed up on my Y12 list.  These lucky fellows have won a generalized email from me soon, inviting them to explore the BigY.  I did send out a similar such email in the middle of April, and one person did add a BigY. 

~~~

I also track my R-M269s on my Y12 list, as they decrease upon being updated.  Every day or two, there is another drop of 10 to 20. 

On May 1, 773 R-M269s with FF, eligible to be updated.  Today, only 697.

I guess I need to start tracking R-L151 and the youngest subclade in my line tested by v3 in both haplotree and the Big Y block.

[ArmandoR1b]

How are you ascertaining tree growth?  Page/link?

How are you ascertaining tree growth?  Page/link?

Current Total Tree size:
Haplotree | FamilyTreeDNA   A-PR2129.  Click on Countries (3 dots at right).   

For other clades, I type those in under Branch Name, and then Countries.

randalgibbs
You can determine the number of Big Y tests by typing A-PR2921 in "Go to Branch Name" in the block tree and then hovering your mouse over the Aggregated Public Variants under Both A-L1090 and A-L1087 which will display the number of downstream Big Y participants.

Currently there are 109,529 Big Y tests under A-L1090 and 9 Big Y tests under A-L1087 or 109,538 total

The Haplotree tree is for all SNPs tested kits, Big Y, individual SNP tests, SNP packs, and FF subclades.

As you can see from the post by ranadlgibbs the Big Y Block tree https://www.familytreedna.com/my/bigy-blocktree is only for Big Y kits. So if you subtract the Big Y kits from total count you get the kits without Big Y. FTDNA does not provide the count of kits with an FF subclade without other testing or the number of kits with an SNP pack test without Big Y.

[Riverman]

But SNP tested and family finder kits are in the BigY tree, just at the lower resolution level. E.g. under a specific upstream branch, you might have 200 testers, but only 2 BigY tested individuals which couldn't be assigned more downstream.
In the Time Tree are only BigY testers with scientific samples (ancient and modern).

[ArmandoR1b]

But SNP tested and family finder kits are in the BigY tree, just at the lower resolution level. E.g. under a specific upstream branch, you might have 200 testers, but only 2 BigY tested individuals which couldn't be assigned more downstream.
In the Time Tree are only BigY testers with scientific samples (ancient and modern).

Are you seeing that in a specific subclade? The difference in count for the youngest subclade for my line tested by FF between Big Y Block tree and the Haplotree are too large for Big Y Block tree to also have FF tested kits or SNP pack tested kits without Big Y.

I wasn't looking at Time Tree at all. I can't see where the Time Tree mentions a count. Did you mean to mention Discover such as https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-P297/story where they mention 138,078 DNA tested descendants

The first two below are the trees I mentioned -

Big Y Block tree - https://www.familytreedna.com/my/bigy-blocktree
Haplotree - https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/A

[ArmandoR1b]

I'll use R-CTS4065, mentioned earlier in this thread, as an example of the difference between Haplotree, Discover Story, and Big Y Block Tree. AFAIK, R-CTS4065 is the most downstream of that line that is tested by FF so when those results are used they show in the that specific count.

Haplotree - 1,012 R-CTS4065 and downstream participants
Discover Story - 995 DNA tested descendants
Big Y Block Tree - 311 Big Y participants

Here we can see a significant difference between Haplotree and Big Y Block Tree. Meaning that Big Y Block tree should only have Big Y participants as is stated in the Big Y Block Tree. I don't think FTDNA is misleading us there.

Additionally, if I count the number of Big Y kits on step downstream from R-CTS4065 in the Block Tree the count is 307. Meaning only four aren't given a downstream SNP. If they had been tested by FF they wouldn't get a downstream SNP but there would been a lot more based on the Haplotree.

If I sum all of the counts of the subclades of R-CTS4065 in the haplotree they add up to 344. Meaning those are mostly Big Y kits and some SNP pack tested kits and some individual SNP tested kits since the count is higher than the 311 Big Y participants. Since SNPs downstream from R-CTS4065 aren't tested by FF the total of the subclades is much less than the total of R-CTS4065 itself in the haplotree.

It seems R-CTS4065 must have gained a lot of kits just through FF and/or R-CTS4065 was also the most downstream SNP in an SNP pack.

[Riverman]

Take for example E-Z5018, it has only 3 BigY testers which are branch participants, but there are 35 people as branch participants if you go to the country statistics. Ergo, those 32 are SNP and FF tested or whatever.

Also, if you go upstream to the most basal A haplogroup, you can also see the total number of BigY-tree downstream testers, and that's way more than the BigY testers and includes FF and SNP testers.

Probably you used another view or mode if there exists one? I don't know. Its the same all the way down to my main branch, which being not covered by FF tests and I don't even know if there would be a SNP package. At every level there are way higher numbers for branch participants than there are BigY testers.

In Time Tree those FF/SNP testers don't appear. I don't know of a count, I just observed it, because the Time Tree would look very strange otherwise with hundreds if not thousands of samples on the basal position of the main branches.




Edit: If you meant what I wrote, when clicking on say Z5018 and seeing those 3, then yes, that's the BigY testers, but the total number in the country statistic includes the SNP/FF testers and those are the ones we can easily gather and compare. Like its impossible to tell from the downstream testers of E-Z5018 who's SNP/FF tested and whose BigY tested, because one needs to check at every step and every branch how they are looking.
But I referred to the country statistics in Blocktree and the country flags.