Posts: 296
Threads: 2
Joined: Sep 2023
So now that it seems like the mainstream is on board with a Steppe origin of PIE, what does linguistics have to say about PPIE?
For example are there any hints of language contacts which could point to which component of 'CLV' ancestry is more likely to have conveyed PPIE?
Posts: 302
Threads: 11
Joined: Oct 2023
(Yesterday, 04:52 PM)Kale Wrote: So now that it seems like the mainstream is on board with a Steppe origin of PIE, what does linguistics have to say about PPIE?
For example are there any hints of language contacts which could point to which component of 'CLV' ancestry is more likely to have conveyed PPIE?
Ancient contacts or distant relatedness for Indo-European has been proposed at least with Uralic and some Caucasian language families. In the "Nostratic" or "Trans-Eurasian" frameworks many Eurasian language families are bundled as relatives, some models including also Indo-European. However, in such comparisons the criteria are so loose that different results become mutually contradictory. Critical linguists are skeptic if we can ever prove any such distant relatedness between language families beyond doubt.
~ Per aspera ad hominem ~
Y-DNA: N-Z1936 >> CTS8565 >> BY22114 (Savonian)
mtDNA: H5a1e (Northern Fennoscandian)
Posts: 296
Threads: 2
Joined: Sep 2023
Does that include loanwords also (at or before the PIE stage)?
Posts: 302
Threads: 11
Joined: Oct 2023
(Yesterday, 05:44 PM)Kale Wrote: Does that include loanwords also (at or before the PIE stage)?
Well, some loanwords are more convincing than others. Many Proto-Uralic words formerly considered borrowings from Proto-Indo-European like *nimi 'name' and *weti 'water' are difficult, because either there is no clear donor language/stage or there must be assumed unexpected sound substitutions or borrowing from some peculiar stem variant. Such words are so few in number that there probably will never appear several examples of the same developments. This leaves room for chance resemblance: even if the meaning is the same, there are only few matching sounds per word.
~ Per aspera ad hominem ~
Y-DNA: N-Z1936 >> CTS8565 >> BY22114 (Savonian)
mtDNA: H5a1e (Northern Fennoscandian)
Posts: 58
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2023
There are some eerie similarities among the personal pronouns of many languages of northern Eurasia (Indo-European, Uralic, Turkic, Mongolic, Tungusic, Yukaghir). However, for the first-person singular personal pronouns, the similarity only holds for the oblique cases; I do not recall finding anything like Indo-European "I" (German ich, Latin ego, etc.) in those other language families of northern Eurasia. The "I" words rather resemble Austronesian first-person singular personal pronouns.
Posts: 296
Threads: 2
Joined: Sep 2023
(Yesterday, 06:36 PM)Jaska Wrote: (Yesterday, 05:44 PM)Kale Wrote: Does that include loanwords also (at or before the PIE stage)?
Well, some loanwords are more convincing than others. Many Proto-Uralic words formerly considered borrowings from Proto-Indo-European like *nimi 'name' and *weti 'water' are difficult, because either there is no clear donor language/stage or there must be assumed unexpected sound substitutions or borrowing from some peculiar stem variant. Such words are so few in number that there probably will never appear several examples of the same developments. This leaves room for chance resemblance: even if the meaning is the same, there are only few matching sounds per word.
What are some loanwords that seem convincing, and from what languages do they derive?