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12-03-2023, 10:01 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2023, 10:06 PM by Orentil.)
Rendlesham is really a remarkable place. I wasn't aware that there was also a fragment of a B-gold bracteate identicalk to the Binham bracteate found.
Ask the Curator: Beads and Pendant from Rendlesham – Whats New (wordpress.com)
Funnily they placed the fragment showing the "defeated beast" wrongly in comparison to the other fragment and the Binham bracteate.
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12-03-2023, 11:05 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2023, 11:15 PM by JonikW.)
(12-03-2023, 10:01 PM)Orentil Wrote: Rendlesham is really a remarkable place. I wasn't aware that there was also a fragment of a B-gold bracteate identicalk to the Binham bracteate found.
Ask the Curator: Beads and Pendant from Rendlesham – Whats New (wordpress.com)
Funnily they placed the fragment showing the "defeated beast" wrongly in comparison to the other fragment and the Binham bracteate. Thanks for posting that incredible bracteate. Rendlesham certainly looks like an unusually important Migration Period site, as you say. Like NewEnglander pointed out, the local soil makes it unlikely we'll get aDNA from there, but it was obviously an exceptionally wealthy royal centre with connections reaching out to various places across the Germanic world.
You might remember I visited the Rendlesham exhibit at Sutton Hoo mentioned in your link back in July and posted some pics then. This broadly Scandinavian D- bracteate and brooch with parallels from France and the Netherlands nicely illustrate some of the connections that the royal centre must have had. Hopefully we'll learn more about those connections from the archaeology if not the DNA. The temple is of massive interest on that front, especially if it really does have Scandinavian parallels that might tell us more about the origin of Raedwald and the Wuffingas, who could be related to the Wulfings of Beowulf.
![[Image: IMG-20231203-224943.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/vZ05X5VK/IMG-20231203-224943.jpg)
![[Image: IMG-20231203-224924.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/NGRTS3Xm/IMG-20231203-224924.jpg)
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01-09-2024, 09:28 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2024, 10:08 AM by Orentil.
Edit Reason: Correction from Wessex to Lincolnshire
)
I hope Gretzinger will take the lead in analyzing these samples from Lincolnshire.
https://www.heritagedaily.com/2024/01/we...ery/150187
Edit: Correction from Wessex to Lincolnshire
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(01-09-2024, 09:28 AM)Orentil Wrote: I hope Gretzinger will take the lead in analyzing these samples from Wessex.
https://www.heritagedaily.com/2024/01/we...ery/150187
Exciting news! I think the site itself is in Lincolnshire, which in itself might suggest a community of Angles. I'm slowly making my way through that TV series but haven't got to that part yet. I look forward to finding out more.
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The relevant episode of 'Digging for Britain' aired this evening, Tuesday, 9th Jan 2024 @ 20:00 on BBC2. Should still be on iPlayer for UK viewers.
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Thanks SMJ. All six episodes were put up on iPlayer from the time the first one aired so you don't have to wait for each one to appear on terrestrial TV. This item is on episode 4 and the slot begins at about 11 mins 50. There's nothing of real note that wasn't in Orentil's article. They think the burial of the teenage girl and child was late in the sixth century to late in the seventh and will be carrying out proper dating of the burials in due course.
There are 23 burials in total, some including females with small iron knives at the waist. We also had a fleeting glimpse of some penannular brooches. They gave no details but these were common items of dress in the Roman period and often found in bags or purses of Anglo-Saxon females.
Included in that tantalising glimpse at the artefacts I could see an annular brooch of a kind typical of the Anglian areas of the north and east rather than the Saxon ones. I imagine given the late likely date of the cemetery that this community may all have been local born and bred but the isotopic data will be good to see as well as the aDNA
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02-02-2024, 08:19 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2024, 08:29 PM by pelop.)
Has anyone looked at the samples from this paper?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-023-05642-z
3 samples are Iron Age, C10427 and C10462 are from this site:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetwang_Slack
C10427: R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b2a1b1a4b1c1a & K1a4a1
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C10090: T2b17
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02-03-2024, 03:04 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2024, 03:04 AM by Manofthehour.)
(02-02-2024, 08:19 PM)pelop Wrote: Has anyone looked at the samples from this paper?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-023-05642-z
3 samples are Iron Age, C10427 and C10462 are from this site:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetwang_Slack
C10427: R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b2a1b1a4b1c1a & K1a4a1
C10462: R1b1a1b1a1a2b1c1b1a & H1b
C10090: T2b17
I don't know what those would be in short-form SNPs like Ftdna uses. I know the second one is some subclade of L2 but I don't know which one. Does anyone know? Or does anyone know a sight or tool which will convert long form SNPs into short form?
U152>Z56>Z43>Z46>Z48>Z44>CTS8949>FTC82256 Lindeman
M222...>DF105>ZZ87>S588>S7814 Toner
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(02-03-2024, 03:04 AM)Manofthehour Wrote: (02-02-2024, 08:19 PM)pelop Wrote: Has anyone looked at the samples from this paper?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-023-05642-z
3 samples are Iron Age, C10427 and C10462 are from this site:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetwang_Slack
C10427: R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b2a1b1a4b1c1a & K1a4a1
C10462: R1b1a1b1a1a2b1c1b1a & H1b
C10090: T2b17
I don't know what those would be in short-form SNPs like Ftdna uses. I know the second one is some subclade of L2 but I don't know which one. Does anyone know? Or does anyone know a sight or tool which will convert long form SNPs into short form?
You might try:
Find ISOGG Y-SNP Synonyms
http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/adminUtils.html
Paper Trail: 42% English, 31.5% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
LDNA©: Britain & Ireland: 89.3% (51.5% English, 37.8% Scottish & Irish), N.W. Germanic: 7.8%, Europe South: 2.9% (Southern Italy & Sicily)
BigY 700: I1-Z141 >F2642 >Y3649 >Y7198 (c.365 AD) >Y168300 (c.410 AD) >A13248 (c.880 AD) >A13252 (c.1055 AD) >FT81015 (c.1285 AD) >A13243 (c.1620 AD) >FT80854 (c.1700 AD) >FT80630 (1893 AD).
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It appears the first one is a subclade of U106>Z1
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(02-03-2024, 03:57 PM)Vinitharya Wrote: It appears the first one is a subclade of U106>Z1
Are you sure? According to ISOGG the first one (C10427) is R-CTS7970. Seems continental, Celtic-related.
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02-03-2024, 05:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2024, 05:24 PM by Vinitharya.)
R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b2a1b1a4b1c1a is listed in ISOGG as being A8050, which is one level down from R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b2a1b1a4b1c1, which is listed as S6881, which is on YFull as a subclade of U106>Z1. A8050 is listed on YFull as A11379, which has an origin of 900 ybp, which may indicate contamination and/or mislabeling.
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02-03-2024, 05:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2024, 06:16 PM by Manofthehour.)
(02-03-2024, 04:30 PM)pelop Wrote: (02-03-2024, 03:57 PM)Vinitharya Wrote: It appears the first one is a subclade of U106>Z1
Are you sure? According to ISOGG the first one (C10427) is R-CTS7970. Seems continental, Celtic-related.
That's the second one, which belongs to a branch of U152>L2>Z142.
Thanks JMcB for the tool! It should come in handy from now on.
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U152>Z56>Z43>Z46>Z48>Z44>CTS8949>FTC82256 Lindeman
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For these ISOGG translations you can use Robin Spencer’s FTDNA Admin tools on his ScaledInnovation site. http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/adminUtils.html
Y-DNA I1a2a1a1a1a1a1~ I-M253>DF29>Z58>Z59>CTS8647>Z61>Z60>Z140>Z141>Z2535>L338>A1944/Y15155>A2398>FT114518>FT195891>FT194840>FT196036>FT196236
mTDNA H4a1a4b-a*
FamilyTreeDNA 931859 (FamilyFinder, Big Y-700, mtFull) myOrigins: England, Wales, and Scotland 62%; Scandinavia 26%; Ireland 12%
YFull YF068629=YF108828 (Y, mT)
YSeq 41625
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