Late Antiquity-Early Middle Ages cemetery in the Eastern Italian Alps

[ChrisR]

I also looked again. I would revise my comments:
modern Trentino has a broad range of diversity, overlapping with both modern Veneto and Lombardy and as well Piemonte and Liguria and to a lesser degree Emilia.
But it is the "most North Italian" cluster as it has more nearness to Swiss_French, Swiss_German, (West) Austria.
ALP070 and ALP071 are indeed nearest to the Cimbri_Lessinia average, but it is hard to tell if they are from the Lusern(a) area and diversity, they could also be from the Ladin (bordering) area like Val di Fassa, where in the entrance of the valley there are a lot of Medieval German settlements/names. It might be reasonable to handle the two samples as "particular" but maybe not as proper outliers.
The Late Rhaeto-Romans (from Burgeis) interestingly are aven more diverse then the known Trentino samples and overlap with the Cisalpine Gauls (which overlap with other Gauls and the Etrusco-Latin-diversity)

re-looking at the _Northeast Italians on G25
not even that far-out, infact very much in the area except for ALP435
if anything the German speaking isolates of the FVG (Sappada, Timau and Sauris) get alot of hits

The Italian_Notheast samples which also lack a desired more specific geographic positioning (Friuli?) are mostly between the Trentino-Veneto variance and Austria with shift also in direction of Slovenia, so like a "Southern equivalent" to South Tyroleans (and West Austria) with the Eastern+Germanic? shift, unless this shift was already present in the Rhaeto/Noric variance, but the Cenomani-Cis.Gaul LIA and Burgeis Rheato-Romance LA samples tell otherwise. Italy_Northeast as alexfritz already stated overlaps broadly with the Cimbri and 3 other German speaking isolates in NE Italy. In addition to ALP435 I do see also ALP220 with a more "pronounced" Eastern shift. I think splitting the Austria average at least in a West and East (and maybe South) average would be needed to get more insight. Unfortunately also here the lack of geographic origin detail does not allow that.

The main conclusion I have is: the Trentino area admixture after the LateAntiquity did not change much in totality despite having "particular" areas with visible shifts.
We can not yet reach satisfying conclusions about the rest of historic Tyrol and Austria as except for Burgeis AFAIK we do not have LateAntiquity samples which would allow a better analysis compared to older (LaTene/LIA) and younger (Germanic+Slavic, EMA) samples. So far it seems a consistent Eastern (+Northern?) shift is present compared to LIA (and Antiquity?) for the modern Austro-Bavarian speakers.
Having at least some modern Vinschgau/Venosta samples would be interesting.

[alexfritz]

I also looked again. I would revise my comments:
modern Trentino has a broad range of diversity, overlapping with both modern Veneto and Lombardy and as well Piemonte and Liguria and to a lesser degree Emilia.
But it is the "most North Italian" cluster as it has more nearness to Swiss_French, Swiss_German, (West) Austria.
ALP070 and ALP071 are indeed nearest to the Cimbri_Lessinia average, but it is hard to tell if they are from the Lusern(a) area and diversity, they could also be from the Ladin (bordering) area like Val di Fassa, where in the entrance of the valley there are a lot of Medieval German settlements/names. It might be reasonable to handle the two samples as "particular" but maybe not as proper outliers.
The Late Rhaeto-Romans (from Burgeis) interestingly are aven more diverse then the known Trentino samples and overlap with the Cisalpine Gauls (which overlap with other Gauls and the Etrusco-Latin-diversity)

re-looking at the _Northeast Italians on G25
not even that far-out, infact very much in the area except for ALP435
if anything the German speaking isolates of the FVG (Sappada, Timau and Sauris) get alot of hits

The Italian_Notheast samples which also lack a desired more specific geographic positioning (Friuli?) are mostly between the Trentino-Veneto variance and Austria with shift also in direction of Slovenia, so like a "Southern equivalent" to South Tyroleans (and West Austria) with the Eastern+Germanic? shift, unless this shift was already present in the Rhaeto/Noric variance, but the Cenomani-Cis.Gaul LIA and Burgeis Rheato-Romance LA samples tell otherwise. Italy_Northeast as alexfritz already stated overlaps broadly with the Cimbri and 3 other German speaking isolates in NE Italy. In addition to ALP435 I do see also ALP220 with a more "pronounced" Eastern shift. I think splitting the Austria average at least in a West and East (and maybe South) average would be needed to get more insight. Unfortunately also here the lack of geographic origin detail does not allow that.

The main conclusion I have is: the Trentino area admixture after the LateAntiquity did not change much in totality despite having "particular" areas with visible shifts.
We can not yet reach satisfying conclusions about the rest of historic Tyrol and Austria as except for Burgeis AFAIK we do not have LateAntiquity samples which would allow a better analysis compared to older (LaTene/LIA) and younger (Germanic+Slavic, EMA) samples. So far it seems a consistent Eastern (+Northern?) shift is present compared to LIA (and Antiquity?) for the modern Austro-Bavarian speakers.
Having at least some modern Vinschgau/Venosta samples would be interesting.

absolutely
what is very important to know is the onset population of the Roman period in order to fully assess the MP and post-MP movements; for now getting an insight is still difficult with the absence of Roamn era samples from north Italian sites (but the upcoming paper should conclude alot) eg we know from the central Italian data (Table S4e) that C.Italy_Imperial is indeed the east-med source of C.Italy_Early-Medieval (xcl all others) + an add source in this case smth from n.Europe with best fits Hungary_Langobard(_north) ~20% p=0,60; now i doubt that the east-med source in n.Italy will be any different than in c.Italy and the upcoming paper mentioned (cf abstract) that the MP influx wont be higher than in c.Italy aswell; thus the onset must have been less east-med shifted than in c.Italy (smwhat also indicated with 'half proportions')

so the whole area in question now was part of the regio X Venetia et Histria which also stretched north to a place called Sublavio on the eisack and via Raetica smwhere between the Pons Drusi (~Bozen) and Sterzing; now we actually already have samples from a loc of said regio from Emona (Ljubljana) with and overall dating of ~250-350/400 cal CE

checking Emona with modern inds.

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the samples R10467 and R10469 pretty much reflect the hits that also R1555 (81.5-210 cal CE) from Urbino/Bivio in the Umbria et Ager Gallicus gets ie Tuscany, Corsica, Carloforte and thats how i suspect much of Roman n.Italy to look like aswell (cf abstract); whether R10478 and R10477 suggest a direct continuity i think is doubtful but maybe a similar cline already and the Burgeis samples inall show a smwhat similar trend; R10474 is interesting because she is actually a female thus ruling out the obv foederati option (unless ...) and whether her SWE hits indicate east Germanic ie e.Scand (Goths) not sure either