Investigation of differentiation between Cornwall & Devon

[Mitchell-Atkins]

An  investigation  of  differentiation  between  Cornwall  and Devon based on history, surnames, and Y-chromosomes

Thesis submitted for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy February 2019
By Jodie E. Lampert Department of Genetics and Genome Biology University of Leicester

An investigation of differentiation between Cornwall and Devon based on history, surnames, and Y-chromosomes (le.ac.uk)

All 120 R1b samples were derived for M269, given the presence of the derived L11 allele in 118 of the samples and the confirmation of the M269 derived allele in the two samples that were ancestral for L11. Two SNPs, U198 and M222, were ancestral in all samples. Thus, of the nine possible haplogroups defined by the typed SNPs, seven were observed: R1b-M269* (n=2), R1b-L11* (n=3), R1b-U106* (n=38), R1b-S116* (n=30), R1b-U152 (n=7), R1b-S145* (n=33), R1b-Z253 (n=3). The * means the lineage is not derived for any further downstream SNPs in this study. Four of the samples contained at least one missing allele and were removed from the analysis.

[alanarchae]

yeah the interesting thing is there is quite a chunk of DF27 in Devon and Cornwall and some of the earliest DF27 sampled do come from SW England. Those areas have a very long history of contact with northern France. So it’s hard to be certain what the chronology of the DF27 presence is there. It may have come in over a very long period. But it would be extremely interesting if some was bell beaker era. Though ftom memory bell beaker burials are very rare in the area. Though by 2200BC someone seems to have been exploiting tin in the area and recent studies of irish gold objects also point to a cornish source.

[alanarchae]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/...3A09307995

[Pylsteen]

I had to look up the S numbers, so S145 is L21, S116 is P312 (including quite some DF27 probably...)

[alanarchae]

What is clear is native west and central Cornwall male lines are a lot more pre-Anglo-Saxon than Devon (and Bodmin) ones. This fits the very different histories of Anglo-Saxon settlement of the two areas. Though I think even before that there was likely a cline because Devon seems to have higher ratio of DF27 relative to L21 than Cornwall and also more E and I2. Though we can’t rule out high-medieval French input given the several trading ports there were in Devon. As with everything only ancient DNA can resolve things.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

I took the data and pie charts and got the following for the study.
You can see the inverse relationship between L21 and U106.  U152 stays relatively level across the area with slightly more in Cornwall than in Devon.


FWIW, in my prior analysis of FTDNA project data back in 2014, I had U152 in Cornwall at 6.7% (of 60 samples) and 4.0% (of 151 samples) in Devon.  

DF27 was 11.7% in Cornwall and 8.6% in Devon.

[alanarchae]

I took the data and pie charts and got the following for the study.
You can see the inverse relationship between L21 and U106.  U152 stays relatively level across the area with slightly more in Cornwall than in Devon.


FWIW, in my prior analysis of FTDNA project data back in 2014, I had U152 in Cornwall at 6.7% (of 60 samples) and 4.0% (of 151 samples) in Devon.  

DF27 was 11.7% in Cornwall and 8.6% in Devon.

the study took a lot more care to only use one people with plausible cornish surnames. Cornwall today is packed with retired people/2nd homers from southeast england who outprice the locals who mostly rely on tourism so aren’t well paid. Same as highlands and islands of scotland. I don’t think they know or care that they are actually destroying these places by settling in them and making houses unaffordable to the native locals.

[alanarchae]

not bang up to date but a useful summary of beaker in cornwall - it’s late beaker and mostly cremations though you have to factor in the acid soil’s ability to dissolve inhunations. Seems what beaker is present is mostly 2200BC or younger, which fits the importance of the area dating to tin (bronze) and later beaker gold which both date from around 2200BC onwards. It seems that even Devon has v few classic beaker burials - just a few and they look like they relate to the wessex area further east.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...rchaeology

[Webb]

I seem to recall this discussion on Anthrogenica just before it came to an end. This is from the Cornwall DNA Project:

“Sep 2015 Second summary of results

The R1b Backbone Test has finally allowed us to analyse our most important haplogroup, R1b. The most surprising result is that we have almost as much R-DF27, the Iberian subclade, as we do R-L21, the 'Celtic' subclade. This probably represents multiple incursions from the Continent (Spain and Brittany) over thousands of years.”

[Mitchell-Atkins]

To place the Y diversity of the populations studied here in a broader context, relevant Y-STR
data were gathered and pairwise Rst calculated among 22 populations including Cornwall,
Bodmin Moor, and Devon (see table 6.7). In order to make all the datasets compatible,
comparisons were done at the level of 12 Y-STRs only. Relationships between populations
are represented in the MDS plot shown in figure 6.13. Six sub-populations from France were
included, and the sampling locations of these are shown on the map in figure 6.12. Two are
from the current region of Brittany

Figure 6-13 really shows the genetic difference between Cornwall and Devon, with Cornwall close to Wales and Ireland and Devon closer to southern and central England.  

Interesting that Brittany lies in between the 2 and how close Normandy is to Central England

[Webb]

I was looking through the results of the Devon DNA project, and besides noticing the large number of North/South cluster kits, which isn’t new or unusual, as a we have known for quite sometime that Western England seems to be a hot spot for the North/South cluster, AKA, Z220. One of the surname groupings are close matches to the Sedgeford samples from the Anglo-Saxon paper. These were the two brothers and son of one of the brothers. All three died from blunt force trauma and were dumped together in a single grave, compared to the rest of the remains in the cemetery, which were more methodically arranged.

[Gray Fox]

I was looking through the results of the Devon DNA project, and besides noticing the large number of North/South cluster kits, which isn’t new or unusual, as a we have known for quite sometime that Western England seems to be a hot spot for the North/South cluster, AKA, Z220.  One of the surname groupings are close matches to the Sedgeford samples from the Anglo-Saxon paper.  These were the two brothers and son of one of the brothers.  All three died from blunt force trauma and were dumped together in a single grave, compared to the rest of the remains in the cemetery, which were more methodically arranged.

You'll also notice my ydna line amongst those in the Devon project. Under the surname Isaac and of R1b-DF27/SRY2627. I feel through my own genealogical research that it was a relatively recent arrival, most likely during or just after the Norman Conquest.

[rmstevens2]

My maternal grandfather's line came from Devon. It is R1b-FT418639 (downstream of R1b-Z253), surname Gist. 

My own surname, Stevens, is very common in Cornwall, but I don't have any Y-DNA matches from there or who trace their Y-DNA lines to Cornwall. My Y-DNA matches who can trace their lines to the Old Country trace them to Wales, and Stevens is also a Welsh patronymic surname (from the Welsh ap Stephen, "son of Stephen").

[Titane]

This article published in Nature last year may help inform and broaden the discussion:

The Anglo-Saxon migration and the formation of the early English gene pool

• Joscha Gretzinger, 
  
• Duncan Sayer, and many many more...
  

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05247-2#Abs1

Not only is the paper interesting, but there is free access to a multitude of graphs and tables - enough to keep citizen scientists busy for a while.
I came across it looking for more information about the medieval site of Groningen in the Netherlands - and found it!

[Capsian20]

An  investigation  of  differentiation  between  Cornwall  and Devon based on history, surnames, and Y-chromosomes
Thesis submitted for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy February 2019
By Jodie E. Lampert Department of Genetics and Genome Biology University of Leicester

An investigation of differentiation between Cornwall and Devon based on history, surnames, and Y-chromosomes (le.ac.uk)

All 120 R1b samples were derived for M269, given the presence of the derived L11 allele in 118 of the samples and the confirmation of the M269 derived allele in the two samples that were ancestral for L11. Two SNPs, U198 and M222, were ancestral in all samples. Thus, of the nine possible haplogroups defined by the typed SNPs, seven were observed: R1b-M269* (n=2), R1b-L11* (n=3), R1b-U106* (n=38), R1b-S116* (n=30), R1b-U152 (n=7), R1b-S145* (n=33), R1b-Z253 (n=3). The * means the lineage is not derived for any further downstream SNPs in this study. Four of the samples contained at least one missing allele and were removed from the analysis.

Thanks you , i see there 3 sample belong a Haplogroup E-M35 there only one samples know subclade
but 
this last 2 samples both unknown subclade under Y-DNA E-M35 maybe E-V13, E-M81 , E-PF2431, E-V12(not V32) .....
DEV059: E1b1b<E1b1b1b2a : E-PF1962
BM62: E1b1b:E-M35 <?
BM71:E1b1b:E-M35<?