Coming Soon: Y-DNA Haplogroups for Family Finder

[ArmandoR1b]

Of my 3245 12 marker matches 1414 are still M269. 5 are Z49, which is the closest I can hope for on this update.
Of my 379 25 marker matches, 215 are still M269.  0 are Z49.

Of my 7864 FF matches, 262 are M269, 11 are Z49

Update.  

1413 12 marker matches are M269.  Down 1. 
7874 FF matches, 259 are M269.  Down 3,  11 are Z49, no change.

As far as I can tell they still haven't started processing v1 kits. For some reason it seems they are still working 2017 kits again.

edit: I assume they missed some

[Mitchell-Atkins]

7874 FF matches, 259 are M269.  Down 3,  11 are Z49, no change.

Check out how many Autosomal transfers with STRs you have. They gonna stay at main haplogroup level.

Total 12 markers is 3251 with 1410 are M269.
 
I have 543 autosomal 12-marker matches of which 234 are M269

[Mabrams]

I had 28 Y-12/R-M269/Family Finders (not ATs) get updated today.

255 yesterday, 227 now

~~~~~

In one of the projects I admin, I saw 4 Family Finder kits from mid-2015 get updated today.

But they have very low numbers of SNPs recorded.    118, 60, 70, and 121 

One "updated" haplotype is I-M253 which is no improvement over a STR test.  Two others are R-L151, which is pretty shallow.  They did test neg for U106 so it's likely they would be P312.

The V2s recently updated had 200 to 250 SNPs in general (V3s were around 350).
Are these V1s? or just a bad streak of V2s that ran through their positive SNPs very quickly.

In another project, I saw no kits updated, which puzzles me.  A lot of them are already BigYs, but I could not find any 2015 Family Finder kits that were updated.  Maybe tomorrow.

[Riverman]

I had 28 Y-12/R-M269/Family Finders (not ATs) get updated today.

255 yesterday, 227 now

~~~~~

In one of the projects I admin, I saw 4 Family Finder kits from mid-2015 get updated today.

But they have very low numbers of SNPs recorded.    118, 60, 70, and 121 

One "updated" haplotype is I-M253 which is no improvement over a STR test.  Two others are R-L151, which is pretty shallow.  They did test neg for U106 so it's likely they would be P312.

The V2s recently updated had 200 to 250 SNPs in general (V3s were around 350).
Are these V1s? or just a bad streak of V2s that ran through their positive SNPs very quickly.

In another project, I saw no kits updated, which puzzles me.  A lot of them are already BigYs, but I could not find any 2015 Family Finder kits that were updated.  Maybe tomorrow.

In practical terms, the best outcome for new STR matches is that I know instantly when they can't be close, because of the assignment. Sometimes they themselves have not done a FF test, but one of their namesakes has, which makes the case as clear to me.
However, with this shallow assignment of old FF testers, I got a problem, because I can't use M35 or my main branch if searching for new BigY testers. Probably its a bit of a stupid question, but is there an option which allows us to see new BigY upgraders among the STR testers? The match list can only be sorted by time of the STR test, but not the BigY upgrade.

[ArmandoR1b]

In one of the projects I admin, I saw 4 Family Finder kits from mid-2015 get updated today.

Two others are R-L151, which is pretty shallow.  They did test neg for U106 so it's likely they would be P312.

I had announced several times in this thread that R-DF27 people were getting the R-L151 assignment with v2. Of course v1 is not going to be as good as v2 since they added SNPs to the ISOGG tree before v2 was created so some of those were added to v2. R-L21 and R-U152 are almost definitely tested in v1 but just like v2 they aren't providing the negative results. DF27, U152, and L21 are the three big subclades of P312. So most R-L151 would actually be R-DF27 if they had tested for Z195 and ZZ12_1 in both v2 and v1.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

Looks like the recent slow down in progress is over.  6000 jump from 533,132 to 539,637

Guess I spoke too soon.  Things have come to a grinding halt after my last update.  Still haven’t moved past 540,000

Things are moving again.  Up 12k.  Now 552,007

New total 560,881

Countries with at least 1000 samples:
United States 22,530 10.38%
England 22,467 10.35%
Ireland 17,859 8.23%
Germany 14,278 6.58%
Scotland 11,792 5.43%
Sweden 10,763 4.96%
Saudi Arabia 9,696 4.47%
Finland 7,664 3.53%
United Kingdom 7,526 3.47%
Russian Federation 6,292 2.90%
Poland 5,745 2.65%
France 5,309 2.45%
Italy 0 4,998 2.30%
Norway 3,608 1.66%
Spain 3,475 1.60%
Ukraine 2,971 1.37%
Switzerland 2,423 1.12%
Iraq 2,266 1.04%
Northern Ireland 2,263 1.04%
Netherlands 1,883 0.87%
Kuwait 1,830 0.84%
Mexico 1,774 0.82%
Wales 1,765 0.81%
Turkey 1,670 0.77%
Czech Republic 1,664 0.77%
Portugal 1,571 0.72%
Hungary 1,547 0.71%
Lithuania 1,467 0.68%
Belarus 1,362 0.63%
Denmark 1,333 0.61%
United States (Native American) 1,324 0.61%
Yemen 1,321 0.61%
India 1,291 0.59%
Canada 1,256 0.58%
United Arab Emirates 1,153 0.53%
Greece 1,107 0.51%
China 1,008 0.46%

U152 now at 25,702. The way things are going U152 may be close to 30,000 when this update is complete.

Countries with at least 100 U152 samples
United States 1,335 15.89%
England 1,302 15.50%
Germany 1,046 12.45%
France 683 8.13%
Italy 603 7.18%
Ireland 453 5.39%
Switzerland 401 4.77%
United Kingdom 362 4.31%
Scotland 344 4.09%
Sweden 194 2.31%
Poland 140 1.67%
Spain 113 1.35%

[Mitchell-Atkins]

Odd. Some countries total actually went down. Unless I made an error China went from 1801 to 1008. India went from 1567 to 1291, Kazakhstan 562 to 520, Mongolia 467 to 445, and Japan 516 to 488, Colombia 445 to 245, Cameroon 250 to 230, Pakistan 441 to 217, Sri Lanka 192 to 139, Nigeria 318 to 127, Peru 120 to 106, Benin 92 to 89. Barbados 93 to 64.

[Fredduccine]

Odd.  Some countries total actually went down.  Unless I made an error China went from 1801 to 1008.  India went from 1567 to 1291, Kazakhstan 562 to 520, Mongolia 467 to 445, and Japan 516 to 488.

I think FTDNA temporarily reverted to the previous version or the update is having trouble taking hold - I was just browsing multiple groups and noticed that several samples vanished from the lists after I refreshed the pages about 10 minutes after I first viewed them.

[RBHeadge]

I'm a bit late to this thread, so apologies if I repeat something that was said earlier.

I started seeing abnormal growth in mid-April of BY38968. It went from 3 kits earlier at the beginning of the month to 30 kits today. Most of the new kits were added in groups. Compares this to the broader PF7589, which had about 450 kits at the end of the year, and now has 1542 kits. Most of the new BY38968 kits were of unknown origin. It took a while, but the new BY38968 kits I could find in projects did not have have their full 111 results presented. However they did appear to be BY3894+ based on the limited STRs. It wasn't until a few weeks ago that I thought that they may be FF kits with new Yhpg designation.

I was keeping a log of By38964 growth, I wasn't tracking the growth of various PF7589 kits and branches over time. I think it may be too late to start. With that typed, I looked across the PF7589 branches for signals that these were FF kits with yhpg designations. I defined this a branch node with an abnormally high amount of kits of unknown origin as compared with kits of declared origin. Here's what I found:

PF7589
A5922 21475025 g a
BY38968 16149660 t a
8616565 c t
S1141 2968534 c t
14986042 a g
9924984 t c
CTS6889 15061888 c t
CTS11824/pF7592 21134937 g a
A614 8979323 g t
13624905 c t
19017216 g a
26377940 c t
12266780 c a
BY11300 9034644 t g
----and many others
BY12063 19397019 t a
----and many others

I tried looking for these haplogroups, based on their positions, on the v4 and v5 chip spreadsheets without success. The positions are different. CTS6889 and PF7592 are found on v5, but with different positions.

A few of these haplogroups, sort of, "make sense" for inclusion on a chip. PF7589, CTS6889, A5922, S1141, CTS6889, CTS11824, A614 are all on the main trunk of PF7589. "Make Sense" is a relative term here, since PF7589 isn't that common compared with other haplogroups.
What doesn't make sense is the inclusion of BY38968, BY11300, BY12063, which are relatively minor branches even by PF7589 standards.

[ArmandoR1b]

I tried looking for these haplogroups, based on their positions, on the v4 and v5 chip spreadsheets without success. The positions are different. CTS6889 and PF7592 are found on v5, but with different positions.

A few of these haplogroups, sort of, "make sense" for inclusion on a chip. PF7589, CTS6889, A5922, S1141, CTS6889, CTS11824, A614 are all on the main trunk of PF7589. "Make Sense" is a relative term here, since PF7589 isn't that common compared with other haplogroups.
What doesn't make sense is the inclusion of BY38968, BY11300, BY12063, which are relatively minor branches even by PF7589 standards.

I am not familiar with those haplogroups or their subclades so I can't help much. The v4 and v5 spreadsheets are based on hg19 and don't include all of the recurrent positions that FTDNA has decided to use for some subclades. The FamilyTreeDNA FF haplogroup sheet and Discover site is based on hg38. There are several ways to find the equivalent positions between hg19 and hg38. One is the ISOGG SNP Index at https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNA_SNP_Index.html Another is, if you have a YFull account, https://www.yfull.com/check-snp/ , A third is UCSC Liftover. https://liftover.broadinstitute.org/ Lastly there is a way to search at 23andme but the timeout is annoying.

With the ISOGG Index you can do a search of SNP or position and you get SNP name, synonyms, hg198, and hg38. There is a limit of mutations though so you will have to try the other methods if not found there.

At the specific page at YFull you can do a search of the SNP. You get SNP name, synonyms, hg198, and hg38 as well as other information and has all mutations. There is another page for positions.

The last you have to type out chry:position-position. For instance chry:16149660-16149660 which takes you to https://liftover.broadinstitute.org/#inp...38-to-hg19 This page won't tell you the name of the SNP.

Something else that you want to pay attention to is the number of Branch Participants for the specific branch in the public haplotree. For instance R-BY38964 has 0 Branch Participants. That means that FTDNA does not have any FF participants that are terminal at that branch. They are downstream. So it isn't fruitful to look up more information on that regarding FF haplogroups. You need to look downstream. Once you get to the terminal groups you will see a number under Branch Participants. Then you have to compare to the Block Tree to see if some are terminal with Big Y or not.

If you know which project the participants are in you will see a list of positive SNPs and a low number of negative SNPs if the haplogroup was identified by FF. If you know of some and then you can look up the SNPs or positions in the available tools posted above.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

Odd.  Some countries total actually went down.  Unless I made an error China went from 1801 to 1008.  India went from 1567 to 1291, Kazakhstan 562 to 520, Mongolia 467 to 445, and Japan 516 to 488, Colombia 445 to 245, Cameroon 250 to 230, Pakistan 441 to 217, Sri Lanka 192 to 139, Nigeria 318 to 127, Peru 120 to 106, Benin 92 to 89.  Barbados 93 to 64.

I think I know what's going on with those numbers.  I was using 2 different sources

Here in Discover, https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna...view=table

China is currently 1,918

But on the Haplotree country report https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/A
China  is 1,008

I believe the discover tree is using extra sources beyond those that actually tested at FTDNA e.g. ancient samples and public studies.

It's very noticeable when you compare Italy (Sardinia)
Discover = 1214
Haplotree = 4

The overall present totals
Discover = 563,345
Haplotree = 560,878

[ArmandoR1b]

What doesn't make sense is the inclusion of BY38968, BY11300, BY12063, which are relatively minor branches even by PF7589 standards.

I found something that makes sense. FT179402 is a phylogenetic equivalent to BY38968. FT179402 is defined by hg38 position 8616565. That position is also used for PF3661. Even though PF3661 is C>A and FT179402 C>T the position is tested. Since it is tested FTDNA can see the allele. So they use it to define R- BY38968.

You would have to do the same investigation for BY11300 and BY12063.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

Side by side comparison of Haplotree (Left) and Discover (Right) numbers

United States 22,534 22,367
England 22,469 21,978
Ireland 17,862 17,514
Germany 14,278 13,960
Scotland 11,792 11,604
Sweden 10,764 10,568
Saudi Arabia 9,705 9,733
Finland 7,664 7,620
United Kingdom 7,526 7,504
Russian Federation 6,291 6,325
Poland 5,745 5,630
France 5,309 5,238
Italy 4,998 4,992
Norway 3,608 3,565
Spain 3,475 3,525
Ukraine 2,971 2,955
Switzerland 2,423 2,402
Iraq 2,266 2,276
Northern Ireland 2,262 2,233
Netherlands 1,882 1,877
Kuwait 1,830 1,826
Mexico 1,774 1,797
Wales 1,765 1,724
Turkey 1,671 2,114
Czech Republic 1,664 1,662
Portugal 1,571 1,542
Hungary 1,547 1,546
Lithuania 1,467 1,437
Belarus 1,362 1,338
Denmark 1,333 1,334
United States (Native American) 1,325 1,311
Yemen 1,321 1,349
India 1,291 1,685
Canada 1,256 1,259
United Arab Emirates 1,153 1,181
Greece 1,107 1,138
China 1,008 1,918
Armenia 993 1008

[ArmandoR1b]

I believe the discover tree is using extra sources beyond those that actually tested at FTDNA e.g. ancient samples and public studies.

It's very noticeable when you compare Italy (Sardinia)
Discover = 1214
Haplotree = 4

The overall present totals
Discover = 563,345
Haplotree = 560,878

That makes sense. The people that were posting numbers initially, which is where I got the information for my numbers, they were using haplotree and not Discover. The haplotree even states "SNP-tested users from our Y-DNA database"

The Discover page states " This is where your direct paternal haplogroup is most commonly found today based on self-reported information from hundreds of thousands of Y-DNA testers and participants in academic studies. "

[ArmandoR1b]

BY11300 is defined by CTS7416 which is in the FF v3 list. Ybrowse states Extracted from 1000 genomes data. A YFull search of the SNP shows that HG01066 is in that subclade. So that one makes sense because of 1000 Genomes.