Notes on PF7589

[RBHeadge]

Question -are there any yDNA groups in Europe that don’t show this brief but intense branching blip c. 2200BC?

I have not examined histograms for any other Y-hpgs during this period except for the ones mentioned above. And it would be a herculean task to try to do so manually for the P312 clades. Maybe others in this thread can answer.

PF7589’ branching also clearly took a big hit at 2200BC. It’s short lived but very noticeable.

it’s noticeable that P7589 takes a hit (just like all the P312 clades do too) around 2200-2100BC. However Z2109, J-L383 and I-L1229 seem to actually accelerate. That could be a hint that P7589 was one of more or more of the following c. 2200BC

1. A little closer to P312 than the rest
2. P7589 had similar subsistence strategies as P312 but differed from the others 
3. P7589 has similar choice of geographical niche (altitude, position relative to rivers for example).
4. P7589, like P312, owed its growth to some trade routes or sources that were disrupted around 2200BC

My response below uses data collected on Dec 19, 2023
PF7589 doesn't show a decline during the 2200-2100 BCE period. It shows consistent growth c2300-2100. It's still growing from 2100-2000 BCE, just at a slower rate than the previous two centuries. There is a major acceleration in growth from 2000-1900 BCE, the highest rate of growth PF7589 sees until more modern times.

This diminished rate of growth 2100-2000 BCE is still above average for PF7589 over the course of it's existence and it's at the same level seen during the iron age.

I had a look at the raw data that went into the histogram.

PF7589:
The branching events were pretty evenly spaced, roughly every generation.  I did not see any bunching on the edges of the bins that may give false impressions. Nothing that would cause a major shift in the relative levels during an update. EXCEPT for a period from 2127-2019 BCE, where there was a conspicuous absence of branching events. Could this be a signal of the 2.4ky shifted a century to the right? It's close, so maybe. If so, maybe more testing will correct this into the right timeframe. The rapid expansion afterwards could reflect a population recovery.

L283:
No branching events c2424-2163 BCE, then regular spacing between branching events; is the timing off by a couple centuries to the left?

Z2109:
NSTR

I-L1229:
The spacing between branching events is more coarse c2450-2025 BCE than the other haplogroups above. They happen once a century rather than once a generation.

• There way clearly a population reduction for L283, potentially centered around the 2.4ka if CI are considered. They were probably living in the NW Balkans at this time.
  
• If you squint, you might see a population reduction for PF7589 and L1229 near this period. But this may just be a function of small number of kits. We have evidence that L1229 was in western and eastern Hungary during this time and I'd expect it to also be present in the central region too. It was mostly in the west. I would expect PF7589 to be mostly in Western Hungary during this period.
  
• Nothing to report for Z2109, who was in central and eastern Hungary in this period.
  

IIRC, some BB P312 is in central Hungary around this time.

[alanarchae]

Question -are there any yDNA groups in Europe that don’t show this brief but intense branching blip c. 2200BC?

I have not examined histograms for any other Y-hpgs during this period except for the ones mentioned above. And it would be a herculean task to try to do so manually for the P312 clades. Maybe others in this thread can answer.

PF7589’ branching also clearly took a big hit at 2200BC. It’s short lived but very noticeable.

it’s noticeable that P7589 takes a hit (just like all the P312 clades do too) around 2200-2100BC. However Z2109, J-L383 and I-L1229 seem to actually accelerate. That could be a hint that P7589 was one of more or more of the following c. 2200BC

1. A little closer to P312 than the rest
2. P7589 had similar subsistence strategies as P312 but differed from the others 
3. P7589 has similar choice of geographical niche (altitude, position relative to rivers for example).
4. P7589, like P312, owed its growth to some trade routes or sources that were disrupted around 2200BC

My response below uses data collected on Dec 19, 2023
PF7589 doesn't show a decline during the 2200-2100 BCE period. It shows consistent growth c2300-2100. It's still growing from 2100-2000 BCE, just at a slower rate than the previous two centuries. There is a major acceleration in growth from 2000-1900 BCE, the highest rate of growth PF7589 sees until more modern times.

This diminished rate of growth 2100-2000 BCE is still above average for PF7589 over the course of it's existence and it's at the same level seen during the iron age.

I had a look at the raw data that went into the histogram.

PF7589:
The branching events were pretty evenly spaced, roughly every generation.  I did not see any bunching on the edges of the bins that may give false impressions. Nothing that would cause a major shift in the relative levels during an update. EXCEPT for a period from 2127-2019 BCE, where there was a conspicuous absence of branching events. Could this be a signal of the 2.4ky shifted a century to the right? It's close, so maybe. If so, maybe more testing will correct this into the right timeframe. The rapid expansion afterwards could reflect a population recovery.

L283:
No branching events c2424-2163 BCE, then regular spacing between branching events; is the timing off by a couple centuries to the left?

Z2109:
NSTR

I-L1229:
The spacing between branching events is more coarse c2450-2025 BCE than the other haplogroups above. They happen once a century rather than once a generation.

• There way clearly a population reduction for L283, potentially centered around the 2.4ka if CI are considered. They were probably living in the NW Balkans at this time.
  
• If you squint, you might see a population reduction for PF7589 and L1229 near this period. But this may just be a function of small number of kits. We have evidence that L1229 was in western and eastern Hungary during this time and I'd expect it to also be present in the central region too. It was mostly in the west. I would expect PF7589 to be mostly in Western Hungary during this period.
  
• Nothing to report for Z2109, who was in central and eastern Hungary in this period.
  

IIRC, some BB P312 is in central Hungary around this time.

Some produced similar graphs for most large P312 clades a few months ago and - brief sharp slowing of branching around 2200BC or so was noted in every one. But the vast maj of P312 was associated with bell beaker which largely breaks up at that time and ancient DNA also shows the near monopoly of P312 in a lot of europe was exalted around then with a bunch of new yDNA lines appearing in central Europe. So for P312 it’s a very good match. 

I was really just trying to see if the different branching and growth patterns around that time would help tease out the relative positions of the y lines your graphs look at but maybe I overstretched it a bit. 

However, leaving branching seen in modern DNA aside, one factor (as you note above) that cannot be disputed is that the U152 huge dominance seen in the era 2400-2200BC through central Europe as far east as south Poland and the Czech area does end and a number of new y lines suddenly appear in the area eastwards of central Germany with Unetice. So there was some loss of power by U152 and opportinism by other yDNA groups (though not totally displacing U152). The beaker network has stretched as far as Budapest  around 2300-2200BC. So it certainly touches on the edge of your region of interest and perhaps the collapse of beaker control did have some effect there. Even if it was only the vaccum it created. The complex multi layered cultural history seen at Csepel Island might also he relevant. i can’t recall the exact chronology but as well as beaker there was Somogyvar-Vincovci phase

[RBHeadge]

the low countries from 1800BC is interesting. A bit unexpected to see that given the archaeology. All I can think of is traders. Some metals were coming from inner central Europe. In the potentially relevant period this recent paper looking at metal composition in Holland is interesting as if mentions for early to middle bronze age several implied sources including east Alpine Italy, Austria, Slovakia etc. This was apparently a shift from the western sources of copper used in the beaker age. It’s not hard to imagine movement of ores from NE Italy and Slovakia commencing around 2000BC or (as Dotch metal supply shifted away from the west and more to the south) that middlemen on the Danube in Austria might have been involved and a few travelled with the goods and end up settling in the Netherlands.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...9X22003479

Thanks again. I read through the paper. I think the most relevant timeframe is Period 4 (1800-1600 BCE). Which has that clear high-antimony signal. Curiously that signal shows up again is period 8 (1000-800 BCE), which is something I should consider when looking at PF7589 movement in the early iron age.

In period 4, high-arsenic copper plays just a marginal role. Only 13% of the measurements are > 1 %wt and none are > 2 %wt. The objects with high (>1 %wt) antimony all have limited arsenic (0.1–0.3 %wt), moderate to high Ag and Ni (0.35–4.8 %wt) and are typologically classified as ‘Emmen axes’ (Fig. 10) crafted from Singen metal (Butler and Van der Waals, 1966, 86; Vandkilde, 2005, 25).

During the MBA-A (c. 1800–1500 BCE), most objects for this period are low-impurity (<1 %wt) alloys, resulting from exchange networks that have insular, central European and Italian Alpine oxidic ore sources all at play simultaneously (supra).

Something that I'll have to research more is if the singen copper is exclusive to that part of the German Alps, or if its indicative of the Alps at-large? Does anyone know? If the latter then a NE Italy and Slovenia source with passage through western Pannonia makes sense.

[RBHeadge]

In period 4, high-arsenic copper plays just a marginal role. Only 13% of the measurements are > 1 %wt and none are > 2 %wt. The objects with high (>1 %wt) antimony all have limited arsenic (0.1–0.3 %wt), moderate to high Ag and Ni (0.35–4.8 %wt) and are typologically classified as ‘Emmen axes’ (Fig. 10) crafted from Singen metal (Butler and Van der Waals, 1966, 86; Vandkilde, 2005, 25).

Something that I'll have to research more is if the singen copper is exclusive to that part of the German Alps, or if its indicative of the Alps at-large?

I found the original Butler and Van Der Waals reference.

Most of the Dutch examples are indistinguishable from the normal Singen metal. In the Netherlands this metal was employed chiefly for low-flanged axes of Emmen type; it was also used for some of the objects in the Wageningen hoard. It also occurs in two flat axes, one Bell Beaker awl, one 'Irish' axe, and two other low-flanged axes. This high impurity As-Sb-Ag-Ni copper is never described or discussed in standard works on early European metallurgy, although it appears to have served quite an important part of Europe throughout the Reinecke A1 period in anticipation of, or as a substitute for, high-tin bronze.

The ultimate origin of this alloy requires clarification. JSS assumed an origin somewhere in Southwestern Germany for their Group A metal; Otto and 'Nitter
(r952) claimed the Saalfeld ore bed as the origin of the Ag-Ni-As-Sb alloy; Tocik supposes that the Nitra metal came from the nearby Slovakian Ore Mountains. In
any case, it must have Come to the Netherlands up the Rhine, occasionally in Veluwe Bell Beaker times (the Exloo awl) and in greater quantity throughout the Reinecke A1 period. In Central Europe it was in use in the Earlier Nitra-Christlein I phase and onwards throughout Reinecke A1. Singen appears to be the only culture that used this alloy virtually exclusively, so that the name ' Singen metal' seems appropriate for it without prejudice to where it may actually have originated.

While some scholars may have thought it came from Slovakia, the way I read this is that is is most likely came out of the ground close to Singen. So I won't say that this is conclusive evidence of BY38964's migration to the Low Countries.

[RBHeadge]

Ancient DNA Update 1

FTDNA Sample Name	Haplogroup	Date	Country Found	Culture
Vescovile 3277	BY73448	-200	Italy	Cenomane Celt

This sample, among others in the study, has potential contamination or low coverage issues that prevented a full analysis of the autosomnal DNA, so we may never know if he was local or came from elsewhere with other Celts. This sample is found under Y16632, and the other branches under Y16632 show a more northern bias, more so than other PF7589. That branch previously had no one from Italy or the alps. I'd expect most of those Y16632 sub-branches to be in northern France, southern Scandinavia, or northwest Germany around this time in history.

This sample was found with a very diverse array of Y-haplogroups. Of relevance to this thread is an I-L1229>Y39658 sample. The branching event is c1754 BCE, not too far before their bottleneck. It has two branches: a Pakistan/Afghanistan; and France/Britain.

[Nikolai Velikov]

Phylogenic Analysis
In this series of posts, I will review the modern NGS kits and ancient DNA for several countries and areas in Europe. I will use phylogenic analysis of the various lines and attempt to: determine a no-earlier-than (NET) and no-later-than (NLT) arrival date for PF7589 in those regions; and how those lines progressed through Europe. There will be overlap between the analysis of the various countries/regions.
All haplogroups feature survivor lines, especially PF7589. These survivors may feature and unbroken line that could be over 4,000 years old. Without any added context it may be nearly impossible to interpret the path of those lines. Additional testing may cause branches in those lines that add context and force a reevaluation of those lines. Additionally, the branching may show back-migrations which could change NET, and NTL in other regions. BY38964 will come up in several regions below and is an example of a line that progressed quickly and directly from the Balkans to the Low Countries, and then hundreds or a couple thousand years later spread around Europe. Similar migrations may be hidden in the survivor lines, or even within smaller branches now. I can only work with the data I have, and I will reiterate as new data is acquired.
I am aware of the limitations are wide confidence intervals for genetic mutation age estimates. Realistically, the 95% CI is so large that reliably dating branches is near impossible. For the analysis in this and the following section, I am relying on general trends across differing branches and how they line up with known historic events. I recognize that even by this standard that timing may still be off by a few centuries. With that typed, the following analyses will use the date presented by FTDNA. New dating methods may change the conclusions in future analysis.
Italy
Italy has diversity across nearly all branches of PF7589. The only high-level branches lacking Italian kits are PF7589* and early-PF7589 survivor branches with a couple kits.

Code:

PF7589>BY11990>BY73204>Z29840>Z29843
PF7589>BY39441>Y37595/Y37612
PF7589>CTS10379>Y5149*
PF7589>CTS10379>Y5149>CTS5940*
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>PH1272>FTC43740
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>A614>FTD16061>Y21243>BY11306
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327*
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327>BY42293>BY48364
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FT61217>FT209063*
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FT61217>FT209063>FT209870>FT210396

All of these modern branches represent a different part of Italy. One may be tempted to place the PF7589 Western European “homeland” as Italy, but ancient DNA and the timing of the branching events suggests otherwise. The table below shows all of the branches and the context-derived relevant branching date underlined.
Branch Name                     Parent Branching Event           Branch ECA          Survivor?                   Notes
Z29843                                -2769                                    -2450?                 YES                         ***
Y37595/Y37612                    -1321                                    1705                    NO
Y5149*                                -3260                                    -3025                   YES
CTS5940*                            -3025                                    -602                     NO
FTC43740                            -2252                                    678                       NO
BY11306                              -1495                                    -900?                    NO                         ***
FT40327*                            -1861                                    -1602                    NO                         Splits with OE, POL
BY48364                              -1285                                    -1042                    NO
CTS6718*/Z2120*                 -2927                                    na                        YES
FT209063                             -2285                                    -709                     NO                        
FT210396                             66                                        157                        NO                         ECA of 709 BCE is approx
***Includes scientific study kit(s) from Sardinia, FTDNA age estimate unreliable here due to differences in tested regions from FTDNA kits.
If the survivor lines are eliminated, this shows the relevant Italian branches ranging from 1600 BCE to 600 BCE. This is consistent with ancient DNA where no PF7589 is found before c1300 BCE.
The ancient DNA branches are listed below.

Code:

PF7589:                                                                               Villamar 11, Marsulana 3
PF7589>BY11990>BY73204>Z29840                                                         Boville Ernica 1021
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889                                                               Villa Magna, Collegno 49, Nogara 9309
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>BY61900>FTC358                                                Tarquinia 17 and 24                 -1850***
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CTS116                                                  Necropoli Salaria 111               -2000
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CFT48482>FGC24138                                       Collegno 53                         -2284 Lombard
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CFT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327>BY42293>BY48364  Collegno  -1042 Lombard
[color=#000000]PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659         -2267 Late Roman

Note that due the limitation of ancient DNA, the true terminal clade of these samples is unknown. Similarly, trying to derive branching events for Italy from these samples in unreliable.
 
The Italian kits found under Y5149 are difficult to interpret at first. There is a survivor Y5149* kit, and a CTS5940* kit with sibling branches that lead to Sweden, and Britan/Ireland (with a likely Norman origin). This branching event dates to 600 BCE and is likely related to French La Tene expansion. PF7589 during the La Tene era will be covered in a future post. 
The CTS5940* incursion into Italy represents a different later migration into Italy as compared with those found in other Branches in the Late Bronze age (Y3795/Y37612, BY11306, FT40327).
BY48364, despite the 1050 BCE branching event is likely a Lombard migrant, as shown by ancient DNA samples Collegno 49, 53, and 57.
 
France
France presents another interesting area for further exploration of PF7589. Random sampling studies continuously show some of the highest concentrations of PF7589 in Europe. Unfortunately, genealogical testing bias does not provide a complete picture for this country. The table below shows the French kits:

Code:

PF7589>BY39441>BY47547*
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CTS116>CTS11542>FT256224
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CTS11542>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>FTB35174>BY14210>BY14216>BY14216>BY71290
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CTS11542>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>Y16632>Y16631>FTB51423
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CTS11542>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>BY71728
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CTS11542>FGC48821>BY38964>BY38967>BY195676>FT67331*
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>FT40375>FT40768

I attempted to trace these lines back genealogically to specific regions in France with limited success. BY71290 traces back to Normandy, France. FT67331 traces back to Ardeche, Rhone-Alpes, France.

The context derived branching events table follows:
 
Branch Name                     Parent Branching Event           Branch ECA              Survivor?             Notes
BY47547                               -1322                                     -282                       NO                         ECA FRA/IRE/UK split
FT256224                             -1377                                     -1209                     NO
BY71290                               -423                                       1680                      NO                         FRA/IRE split
FTB51423                             -1851                                      -528                      NO                         FRA/SWE split
BY71728                              -2284                                      847                        YES
FT67331                              -1464                                      88                          NO                         From Low Countries
FT40768                              -1347                                      585                        NO
These branching timelines may appear chaotic at first, but essentially break down into three categories. The first is the initial arrival into France with happens towards the end of the Late Bronze age, circa 1300-1200 BCE as found in BY47547, FT256224, and FT40768.
The second pattern is the branching due to La Tene expansion circa 500-300 BCE.  BY47547, BY71290, FTB51423 all show branching events between France and Britain/Ireland or Sweden.  CTS5940 discussed below implies a similar pattern. PF7589 during the La Tene era will be covered in a future post.
The last category is later arrival into France. Including, FT67331 which derives from BY38964 and was located in the Low Countries prior to coming to France (See Low Countries section below). The timing of its split if consistent with the Belgae being conquered by the Romans and forcibly moved elsewhere in the Empire, in this case southeastern Gaul.
There are British and Irish subclades which appear to have a Norman origin. These lines include:

Code:

PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>BY56888
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>BY1199>BY12000>BY12006 PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>BY1199>BY12000>FT33767
PF7589>CTS10379>Y5149>CTS5940>FT47492
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>Y16632>Y16631>Y16634>Y16639>BY12055
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>A614>A605

The branching events for the possible Norman lines follows:
Branch Name                     Parent Branching Event           Branch ECA               Survivor?             Notes
BY56888                               -2975                                     1110                       NO                        
BY12006                               764                                        1199                       NO
FT33767                               764                                        1039                       NO
FT47492                               -602                                       976                         NO
BY12055                               764                                        987                         NO                         Norman?
A605                                    -1719                                     1251                       NO                         Norman?
The common parent ECA (764 CE) for BY1200>BY12006, BY12000>FT33767; and BY12055 despite the temporal distance between those branches is curious. It may be a coincidence or it may imply that they experienced the same underlying growth event and therefore underlying geography. Anecdotally, I see similar dates for suspected Norman Z2103 branches. This likely represents a broader population movement that I will need to research more and discuss in a future post.  Does anyone know of a reason for this?

BY12000* is represented by a Dutch Mennonite kit. It is possible that BY12006 represents a Flemish mercenary or minor noble affiliated with the Normans who settled in Britain and Ireland. However, there is no onomatological evidence for Flemish origins in BY12006. The BY12000* kit may represent a Dutch origin, or German, or Northern France circa 8th century. My best guess is that the kit is ultimately Frisian and that BY12006 migrated through or away from Friesland.
The parental branching event for all of these lines do not offer any further hints.
There is currently no ancient PF7589 DNA from France.
Low Countries
There is a small but noticeable concentration of PF7589 found in the Low Countries. A quick scan of the FTDNA PF7589 Time Tree will show kits from the Netherlands and Belgium under two main subclades:

Code:

PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120> FGC48821>BY38964>various branches
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120> FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>A614>FGC43553

However, a deeper look reveals far more insights. The FGC43553 subclade is well sampled and the Dutch kit can be genealogically traced back one generation to a man from Kriegsheim, Germany. Therefore, it is more appropriate to consider that kit German. 
Branch Name                     Parent Branching Event             Branch ECA         Survivor?             Notes
BY38964                               -2883                                     -1786                     NO                        
FT190719                              850                                        1000                    
BY38964 is my own subclade and I first noticed the monopoly on Low Countries PF7589 over three years ago. In examining BY38964 I found three signature STRs. I scanned several FTDNA project for Dutch and Belgian PF7589 kits that did not test at BigY. In total I found nine PF7589 kits from distinct familial lines potentially from the Low Countries. Five are confirmed BY38964+ or have STRs that imply BY38964+. One has unknown STRs; Three kits do not have BY38964 STRs, and two of those are "Russian Mennonite" so they could be either Dutch or German (see France and Normans above). Low Countries kits can be found under every major branch of BY38964, except for FTB39225 which is several branches down. One could assume that half of the modern Low Countries (specifically Flanders and Netherlands) PF7589 are BY38964+. The earliest common ancestor of BY38964 is circa 1786 BCE. This subclade will be discussed in more detail in a future post.
For regional completeness a Luxembourgish kit is found under:

Code:

PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>BY61900>FTD99734>FT167164>FT190719

But I think that Luxembourg is less reflective of the Low Countries PF7589 concentration found in Flanders and Southern Netherlands.
There are two ancient PF7589 samples. The first is Zwaagdijk 26829, circa 1450 and likely Hoogskarpel Culture. It has low Y chromosome coverage and was only confirmed to PF7589. And yes, I did a manual review looking at BY38964 block SNPs. The second sample is Groningen 17 from Medieval Netherlands. Its path follows:
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158
which dates to circa 2216 BCE.
Iberia
Spain and Portugal are two other countries with relatively higher concentrations of PF7589. Unfortunately, there are relatively few modern NGS testers who trace back to Iberia. There are five subclades:

Code:

PF7589>BY11990>BY73204>BY97999
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>BY161326>PH1072
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>BY38964>BY38967>BY38958>FTB39225>FTA36827
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>FT40375>FT342198
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>BY11300>FTC12117

The listing above omits a Spanish F1356, who is an obvious early-modern era NPE via Scotland.
The branching events follows:
Branch Name                     Parent Branching Event          Branch ECA                Survivor?             Notes
BY97999                               -3007                                     -2262                     YES                        
PH1072                                 -2763                                     -2250                     YES
FTA36827                             -1118                                     -944                        NO                         Low Countries
FT342198                             -1347                                     -1307                      NO
FTC12117                             603                                         658                        NO                        
If we ignore the survivor lines, then this shows an earliest arrival in Iberia circa 1347 BCE.
The BY11300 line is the most notable of this group. It has a clean split circa 600 CE between German lines and Iberian lines. This is reminiscent of the “Crossing of the Rhine” in 406 where Vandals, Alans, Suebi, Quadi, etc. crossed the Rhine in migrated deeper into western Europe. The timing of the BY11300 split is 200 years too late, but well within the confidence interval. Assuming this is the case, the BY11300 line represents Suebi or some other group that travelled with the Suebi post crossing of the Rhine. One branch would have stayed in Germany while the rest migrated to Iberia. BY11300 is a 2700-year-old survivor line. So, it’s unclear if it had a long presence in Germany prior to the split or if it came from the middle Danube with the other groups. The modern concentrations of PF7589 show remarkable consistency with migration period paths and final destinations in Iberia. Most notably is the high concentration in the former Kingdom of the Suebi.
The FTA36827 descends from FTB39225, which left the Low Countries at the end of the bronze age. FTA36827 is something of a survivor line after leaving the Low Countries, so it’s unclear if it settled in Spain soon after leaving the Low Countries or if it happened later; perhaps during the migration period since the FTA36827 kit descends from Galicia.
 
Further NGS testing of Iberian descendants will be required to start to draw any conclusions on PF7589s presence there.
There are no known ancient PF7589 samples in Iberia.
Balkans
Only one Balkans PF7589 kit has been tested. This was an older SNP tested kit from Croatia. The kit genealogically traces back to Preko, Zadar, Croatia. It is confirmed for CTS6889. Nevgen predicts with 69% fitness that it is FGC48821. It But to read between the lines, this means that it isn’t the more dominant FGC48821>S1141 line, and may fit better under FGC48821>BY38964 because it has 2 of 3 signature BY3864 STRs. Additionally, the overall STR profile is within 2sigma of the confirmed BY38964 kits.  It is possible that if tested at Y700 that the Croatian kit will form a new branch under BY38964, or it may split the BY8964 block.
There is one Balkans PF7589 ancient DNA sample: Cetina Valley 18752. And that happens to be the oldest PF7589 sample too, circa 1800 BCE. It is the only non-J-L283 found among the Cetina samples.
Poland
There is a noticeable high concentration of PF7589 in Poland. There are four Polish kits found in FTDNA and YFULL. They make up the lines:

Code:

PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>BY11999>BY12000
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327>BY42293>BY48364>FT111429
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>FGC24115

The immediate realization is that they all fall under FGC24158 which dates back to circa 2125 BCE. The branching events for all four lines:
Branch Name                     Parent Branching Event          Branch ECA            Survivor?             Notes
BY12000                              -1842                                    764                        NO                        Dutch Mennonite
BY42298                              -2006                                    -1861U                   YES                       German Surname
FT111429                            -1017                                    917                        NO                        
FGC24115                            -2123                                    -93                        NO                         Bavarian kits adjacent   
Neither the kits nor timelines are particularly informative here. BY12000 is a Dutch Mennonite kit, and is there either Dutch or German in origin. It is a modern era immigrant to Poland. 
BY42298 is a survivor line and it has a German surname. It is likely an early modern era German transplant to Poland. 
FT111429 is surrounded by German or Germanic kits. It is under BY48364, the same as terminal Lombard Collegno 57. I suspect that FT111429 is a Lombard branch that stayed in Poland whereas another branch migrated to Italy. 
FGC24115 is made up of two Bavarian kits and one Polish kit. It’s unclear if this represents a westward or eastward shift of the clade.
It is a very small sample size, but this analysis points to a Roman-era or later sustained entry of PF7589 into Poland. Realistically more NGS Polish kits are needed to determine if this is legit or not.
There are no known ancient PF7589 samples.
Germanic Areas (Germany, Switzerland, Scandinavia, Austria)
It can be somewhat difficult to analyze 5000 years of haplogroup history in the context of modern-day German borders. It is quite literally in the middle of Europe and all sorts of groups have passed through, existed within, and fought over territory within those borders. There are regional issues, north vs. south, east vs west, topography, etc. to consider. My original plan was to break it up into three modern regions: Scandinavia, Germany, and Switzerland, and analyze each separately.  The results were consistent across all three regions and Austria. There are some interdependencies among the groups so I will present it all in this section.
The relevant subclades are:

Code:

Germany:
PF7589>BY11990>BY73204>BY97999>BY69350
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>B417
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>BY38964>FT52936>FT54189
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>BY38964>BY38967>BY38958>BY38968
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>BY38964>BY38967>BY195676
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>BY11300>BY12048
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>A614>FGC43553
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>BY39196
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>FGC24115
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY69456
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327>BY42293>BY48364>FT111429
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327>BY42293>FTC36657>BY56273>BY98004
Switzerland:
PF7589>BY11990>BY73204>Z29840
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CTS116>Y283567
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>A614>FGC43553
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>BY64364>BY62505
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327>BY2293>BY48364>BY60590
Scandinavia:
(DEN) PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>BY61900>BY192493
(SWE) PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>Y16632Y16631>FTB51423
(NWY) PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>Y16632>Y16631>Y16634>Y16639>Y47548
(SWE) PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327>BY42293>FTC36657
(SWS) PF7589>CTS10379>Y5149>CTS5940
Austria:
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327

The branching events are:
Branch Name                     Parent Branching Event         Branch ECA               Survivor?             Notes
BY69350                              -2262                                    567                        NO                         DEU
Z29840                                -3007                                    -2769                     YES                        CH
BY192493                            -1959                                    24                           NO                        DEN
B417                                   -2928                                    1719                       YES                        DEU
Y283567                              -1918                                    -1500                      YES                       CH, YFULL est.
FT54189                              -109                                      519                         NO                        DEU via LC
BY38968                              -1173                                    -911                        NO                        DEU via LC
BY195676                            -1561                                    -1464                      NO                        DEU via LC
BY12048                              603                                        1032                      NO                        DEU
FTB51423                            -1850                                    -527                        NO                        SWE
Y47548                                -859                                      90                          NO                        NOR
FGC43553                            -1720                                    -1180                      NO                        DEU, CH
BY39196                              -2123                                    1318                       YES                       DEU
FGC24115                           -2123                                     -93                         NO                        DEU
BY69456                              -2015                                    1912                       YES                       DEU
BY62505                              69                                         848                        NO                        CH
FT40327*                            -1861                                    -1622                      NO                        OE (YFULL), ITA
BY60590                              -1042                                    258                         NO                        CH
FT111429                            -1042                                    -917                        NO                        DEU
FTC36657                            -1285                                    -1168                      NO                        SWE
BY98804                              471                                       1632                       NO                        DEU
CTS5940                              -3025                                    -602                        NO                        SWE
There is a lot of data to mine through here and a some  valuable insights can be gleaned. We can see that PF7589 had multiple incursions into Germany. The first may have as early as circa 1918 BCE, but this is a survivor line so that date may not be valid. Eliminating survivor lines, the first incursions into Germany were circa 1600 BCE, with more following in the late Bronze Age.
FT40327 deserves particular attention. It shows a three-way split circa 1622 between Italy (FT40327*), Austria (FT40327*), and BY42293 which features kits from Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Poland, Scotland, and South Africa via Britain, as well as ancient Italian Lombard. I will do a separate post on this subclade in the future. Something caused an expansion or displacement of FT40327 circa 1600 BCE, and this will be explored more in the combined analysis post later.
Y283567 is another notable subclade. This Swiss kit was tested by FTDNA and placed at CTS116*. It was submitted to YFULL and assigned CTS116>Y283567. While not visible now, there was probably a Nebula kit temporarily on YFull that allowed for the subclade refinement and age estimation. The YFull age estimate for CTS116 is similar to FTDNA’s estimate, and the Y283567 age estimate is consistent with the number of named SNPs in its block. So, I believe using the YFull age estimate for this subclade is justifiable with the rest of the analysis in this thread. I will do a sperate post on CTS116 in the future.
The BY38964 subclades FT54189, BY38968, and BY195676 represent back-migration into Germany from the Low Countries. These migrations were Frankish expansion into Germany.  One could argue that BY38964 had to pass through Germany to get to the Low Countries, but there is no evidence that the line spent extensive time in Germany. It may have been a direct migration.
The BY11300 lines is another curiosity. It has a clean split circa 600 CE between German lines and Iberian lines. This is reminiscent of the “Crossing of the Rhine” in 406 where Vandals, Alans, Suebi, Quadi, etc. crossed the Rhine in migrated deeper into western Europe. The timing of the BY11300 split is 200 years too late, but well within the confidence interval. Assuming this is the case, the BY11300 line represents Suebi or some other group that travelled with the Suebi post crossing of the Rhine. One branch would have stayed in Germany while the rest migrated to Iberia. FY11300 is a 2700-year-old survivor line. It’s unclear if it had a long presence in Germany prior to the split or if it came from the middle Danube with the other groups.
As discussed in the France subsection, FTB51423 and CTS5940 are two haplogroups which feature a split in the La Tene period between Sweden and France (including downstream). It’s unclear if these subclades were present in France during the La Tene expansion, or if they were in Germany and expanded into France during this time. La Tene had some trade connections with Scandinavia, but it’s not clear that this involved movements of people. Another explanation is that these subclades were present in Hallstatt Southern Germany, and some expanded into La Tene France, and others moved into North Germany. This will need to be explored in a future post.
There are very little ancient PF7589 samples found in Germany. Some of this may be due to limited testing, but ancient DNA shows a strong presence of L151+ samples in early and middle bronze age specimens. No PF7589 or Z2103 are found in those communities. Until such specimens are found, we may assume that PF7589 was not present in Germany in large numbers prior to the late bronze age. 
PF7589 from outside Europe (Anatolia, Caucuses, Middle East)
There are only two lines of PF7589 kits found outside Europe. These include:

Code:

PF7589*                                                              Turkey                     ECA: -3260
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CTS11542>FT61217>FT209063>FTD91105     Armenia,  Parent ECA -709, ECA 1824

FTDNA has a Yemenite L51 STR kit. Nevgen predicts it only the PF7589 level. And there are some Lebanese L51* testers found on an old 23andMe map.
Not much can be gleaned from these samples. The PF7589* kit is a survivor line and it may show that early PF7589 migrated with the Yamnaya around the Black Sea. The Armenian kits share an upstream clade, FT209063, with an Italian branch (FT209870) implying that that it was in Southern/Southeastern Europe or Anatolia during the early iron age.
There are two Anatolian ancient DNA samples: Muğla 20140 ad 20141. They were only confirmed to CTS6889, and date to 1100 CE and are Byzantine. I am unaware of their autosomal ancestry.
Czechia
There are two modern NGS tester subclades from Czechia.

Code:

PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>BY38964>BY38967>BY195676>FT67331>FT68037
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>S1148>FT412949

The branching events are:
Branch Name                     Parent Branching Event           Branch ECA              Survivor?             Notes
FT68037                              88                                           230                        NO                   Low Countries
FT412949                            -1013                                       1787                     YES
FT68037 is under BY38964 and was in the Low Countries during the Roman Invasion. It was either forcibly relocated by the Romans to Gaul or escaped to Germany, and then later moved to Czechia.
FT412949 is a survivor line with which little can be determined. Additional NGS testing of Czech kits is needed to better understand the presence of PF7589 in Czechia.
There is one ancient PF7589 DNA sample from Czechia: Prague 15955. This also establishes the no-later-than date for PF7589’s arrival in Czechia. This sample was from the Knoviz culture. Its line follows:
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>PH1272
And dates to circa 2250 BCE.
Hungary
There are two Hungarian NGS kits. The lines follow:

Code:

PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CTS116
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>PH1272>PH4390
STRs for two different Hungarian STR kits imply presence under:
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824

And the branching events are:
Branch Name                     Parent Branching Event          Branch ECA         Survivor?             Notes
CTS116*                              -2928                                    -1981                     NO
PH4390                                -2252                                    -1950                    YES                         ***
CTS11824+                                                                      -2294                     n/a                         STR only
The Hungarian kit lack raw numbers but make up for it with their implications for the larger PF7589 haplogroup. Despite their small numbers Hungarian kit show strong diversity under CTS6889 similar to better sampled countries.
The CTS116* is the earliest PF7589+ branching event for which enough context exists to draw inference. It has multiple Western European countries underneath it: CTS116* is from Hungary, a Roman ancient PF7589 is also found under CTS116, another line flows to Switzerland, and another goes to France. CTS116 will be discussed in more detail in a future post.
There are two ancient PF7589 sample from Hungary.
Gór 25507             PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>BY61900                                   1960 BCE
Hács 15                PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141            2512 BCE
Great Britain and Ireland
The FTDNA customer base is obviously in the United States, and their database has a bias towards British and Irish kits. There are also a lot of PF7589 kits with an origin listed as “Unknown” or “United States”. It’s quite possible that many of these kits are GB+I. However, I will only list those kits here if I am reasonably certain that they are GB+I. I am sure that I will miss some branches, but I generally do not believe this will affect the final the overall analysis. I think we can all agree that the Isles are not the Western European homeland of PF7589, and it could be one of the last populated places where PF7589 arrived. The PF7589 lines are:

Code:

PF7589>FT15462
PF7589>BY11990>Y62024
PF7589>BY11990>Y62024>BY70474
PF7589>BY39441>BY47547>FT431333
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>BY56888
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>BY61900*
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>BY161326>PH1072
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>CTS11542>FT61217>FT61736
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>A614>A605
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>A614>FTD16061
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>FTB35174>BY1210>BY14216
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>FTB35174>BY1210>>BY14216>BY21400*
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>Y16632>Y16632>Y16631>Y16634*
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>Y16632>Y16632>Y16631>Y16634>Y16639>BY12063
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824>CTS11659>Z6817>Y16632>Y16632>Y16631>Y16634>Y16639>Y47548
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>BY60654
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>BY11999>BY12000>BY12006
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>BY11999>BY12000>FT33767
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327>BY42293>BY48364>BY60590
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>FT48482>FGC24138>FGC24158>A5922>BY42298>FTD75751>FT40327>BY42293>FTC36657>BY56273
PF7589>CTS10379>Y5149>CTS5940>FT47492

The branching events are:
Branch Name                     Parent Branching Event         Branch ECA            Survivor?             Notes
FT15462                              -3260                                    1710                     YES
Y62024                                -3138                                    -975                     YES
BY70474                              -975                                      1575                    NO
FT431333                             -282                                      -255                     NO                         La Tene
BY56888                              -2975                                    1110                     NO                         Norman
BY61900*                            -2975                                    -1959                    YES
PH1072                                -2763                                   -2550                    YES
FT61736                              -2284                                    -2124                    YES
A605                                   -1719                                    1251                     NO                         Norman?
FTD16061                            -1719                                    -1684                    YES
BY14216                              -1104                                    -794                      YES                        
BY21400*                            -794                                      -424                      NO                         La Tene
Y16634*                              -1851                                    -1766                    YES
BY12063*                            -858                                      764                       YES                         Norman?
BY12055                              764                                       986                       NO                         Norman?
Y47548                                -858                                      90                        YES
BY60654                              -2216                                    1848                     YES
BY12006                              765                                       1209                     NO                         Norman
FT33767                              765                                        1039                     NO                         Norman
BY60590                              -1017                                     268                       NO                         RSA via Britain
BY56273                              -1168                                     471                       NO                         Anglo-Saxon?
FT47492                              -602                                       976                       NO                         Norman                              
There are a lot of branches that are either survivor lines across their entire history, or over a significant part of their history. When ignoring the extra-long survivor lines, the earliest arrival to GB+I was probably circa 424 BCE with the La Tene or successor cultures. It’s very possible that it may have arrived earlier than that with some of the survivor lines, but I’ll conservatively provide 424 BCE as a no-later-than date.
One will notice from the table above that most of the lines entering the Isles are via the Normans. See France section above. At present there is only one line that may have arrived with the Anglo-Saxons.
Buckland 23 is the only ancient PF7589 found in Britain. It dates to circa 600 CE in Kent. Its path is:
PF7589>CTS10379>CTS6889>Z2120>FGC48821>S1141>CTS11824 and the splitting event is 2294 BC

FGC24115 is made up of two Bavarian kits and one Polish kit. It’s unclear if this represents a westward or eastward shift of the clade

I have been recently tested R-FGC24115 so count one more representative

[RBHeadge]

FGC24115 is made up of two Bavarian kits and one Polish kit. It’s unclear if this represents a westward or eastward shift of the clade

I have been recently tested R-FGC24115 so count one more representative

I've made the change in my notes.

It's good to finally have a Y700 kit from Bulgaria. Since there is a detectable presence of PF7589 in Bulgaria in randomly tested studies I was tinkering with the idea that modern Bulgarian-PF7589 could represent either: A Tumulus expansion induced movement of Encrusted Pottery Culture down the Danube; or a relic of PF7589's first movement southward out of the steppe. The new FGC24115 ECA is dated to c900 BCE so it's probably neither of those.

There are now 5 kits under FGC24117: three Y700, 1 FGC, 1 scientific. Trying to create a tree with mixed sources is never clean but I'll try my best below:

FGC24115 (c900 BCE)
+Bulgarian FTDNA kit (+18 PVs)
+FGC24130 (c250 CE)
++FTDNA kit unknown origin (+15 PVs)
++"FGC24141" (ECA unknown, maybe c1200CE?) (name selected based on public YFULL SNPs)
+++FTNDA Bavarian Kit (+7 PVs)
+++FGC Bavarian kit (+7 PVs)
+++Scientific Polish kit

My guess, to be taken with a huge grain of salt:
c1600 BCE Transdanubia
c900 BCE FGC24130 in southern Germany with Hallstatt, your branch moves into costal Bulgaria with later La Tene Celtic expansion
Middle Ages Some FGC24141 stays in Bavaria, one migrates into Poland?

[RBHeadge]

Four BY38968 kits were added to the FTDNA block tree yesterday. All of "unknown" origin. No uptick in the average number of PVs under the block. This is an entire year's worth of new-BY38964 kits added in one week so I feel like this has to be an extended family that all tested together. If not then its just a huge coincidence.

Prior to this week, BY38968 has one Y500 and two Y700 kits under this block. There are four FTDNA STR kits that are also probably under this haplogroup. Tthere were three Nebula kits from two families on YFull, although only one remains now. Most kits, are centered on the Low Counties. Taken together, BY38968 is the block prolific block under BY38964. Something happened circa 935 BCE in the Low Countries to cause explosive growth of this clade.

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Another three kits were added to the BY38968 branch this week. FTDNA has not added any new branches below BY38968 yet.

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And an English kit got added today under BY38968. Still eight unknown origin kits. No new branches. This is two years worth of kits added in two weeks.

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Since April 16th, under BY38968: there has been a total 18 new kits of unknown origin, one English, one Brazilian, and one Italian kit. The number of PV remains constant at 18, and no new branches under BY38968 has been formed yet. No other kits have been added under BY38964xBY38968 yet. FWIW, nothing new added to YFull.

The number of BY38964 has doubled in a month, and a discover rate 5x normal. I have to wonder if this is legit. I know the FTDNA is behind, so maybe the new branches are still forthcoming. Or maybe things got assigned in the wrong place.

I was able to look at the English kit. STRs are definitely consistent with BY38964. It clusters with the same surname which claims a German origin. The eventual finding of an English kit under BY38964 was expected.

There is another kit, probably under the "unknown" category that makes me think there was a colonial-era New England NPE.

The Brazilian kit is a surprise. And the Italian kit is going to make me re-evaluate the timing of BY38964's arrival into the Low Countries. Getting confirmation that all of these kits are BY38968+ and broken into fine branches will certainly help analysis of the branch.

The FTDNA website has been flakey this weekend. So I haven't had a chance to really see if there are many new PF7589's in general, or if its just confined to BY38968.

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I checked, at the number of PF7589 kits on FTDNA in December was in the 500s. Today it's 1,380. It more than doubled in the last 5-6 months. So the growth of BY38968 kits scales well. Now must be a really good time to be a Gene By Gene shareholder, but an exhausting time to work in the FTDNA lab.