A genetic history of the Balkans from Roman frontier to Slavic migrations

[vasil]

We have discused this before but its clear the South Balkan L621 samples can only have come from the north during and post Chalcolithic since they are for sure not there during the Neolithic and they definitely didnt come from somewhere further south like Greece. I used to be in the Central European camp but now I am all the way Northern Balkans/Carpathian Basin. Western Europe has time and again shown itself to be a sink for Eastern European diversity and up until now every time we have tought hey this must a WEU lineage for X major EEU branch we have been proven wrong when we get ancient dna. The westernerner L621 branches are obviously the result of the strong Carpathian-Central European contact zone and dont even have to have migrated at the same time but gradually. CTS4002 a branch with a TMRCA of 3000bc being found in BA Eastern Balkans together with L621* which proves divercity is an absolute nail in coffin for any theory other than the Carpathian one not to even mention the strong WHG signal we see poping up in the neighborhood from the Neolithic to the Iron Age. The CTS4002 founder effect fits Cotofeni like a glove.

[vasil]

I think acording to Pribislav that sample is Y85772.

One such L621* was recently found in the 5th century CE Alpine Italy (Santo Stefano),

[vasil]

There is BTW a new German sample in FTDNA in the Disles/British branch.

[Riverman]

We have discused this before but its clear the South Balkan L621 samples can only have come from the north during and post Chalcolithic since they are for sure not there during the Neolithic and they definitely didnt come from somewhere further south like Greece. I used to be in the Central European camp but now I am all the way Northern Balkans/Carpathian Basin. Western Europe has time and again shown itself to be a sink for Eastern European diversity and up until now every time we have tought hey this must a WEU lineage for X major EEU branch we have been proven wrong when we get ancient dna. The westernerner L621 branches are obviously the result of the strong Carpathian-Central European contact zone and dont even have to have migrated at the same time but gradually. CTS4002 a branch with a TMRCA of 3000bc being found in BA Eastern Balkans together with L621* which proves divercity is an absolute nail in coffin for any theory other than the Carpathian one not to even mention the strong WHG signal we see poping up in the neighborhood from the Neolithic to the Iron Age. The CTS4002 founder effect fits Cotofeni like a glove.

Cotofeni might have a wider range of diverse haplogroups, including E-V13, I2a, J2a, J2b, G and H, depending on exact region. But as you probably know I bet on E-V13 becoming the main lineage of post-Cotofeni groups, which doesn't mean that others weren't present as well. E.g. J2a being found in Kyjatice, the borther group to Gáva, and we don't know how deeply rooted it was in the region.

BR2 was the first J2a found in a Kyjatice-related context:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y17946*/

According to Bruzmi there is a second unpublished one, which is quite remarkable if 2 of 2 samples from Kyjatice, among people with a clearly Central European autosomal profile, turned out to be J2a.

My bet for I-L621 is still a minority element among Eastern Lusatians, rather.

Lusatians (I2 dominated), Kyjatice (J2a?) and Gáva (E-V13?) were all closely related culturally and there was some gene flow between them too. However, so far all the Lusatian-related I2 finds are from different branches, like those in Tollense or the minority element in the Knovíz culture.

Kind of strange that there is lots of I2 in the BA, all around, in all the important groups from the vicinity of the Proto-Slavs, but its practically all from different main branches. I guess we deal with a hard to track, fairly small population, which might have preferred cremation like most post-Cotofeni/Inner-borderline East Carpathian groups.

[vasil]

We have discused this before but its clear the South Balkan L621 samples can only have come from the north during and post Chalcolithic since they are for sure not there during the Neolithic and they definitely didnt come from somewhere further south like Greece. I used to be in the Central European camp but now I am all the way Northern Balkans/Carpathian Basin. Western Europe has time and again shown itself to be a sink for Eastern European diversity and up until now every time we have tought hey this must a WEU lineage for X major EEU branch we have been proven wrong when we get ancient dna. The westernerner L621 branches are obviously the result of the strong Carpathian-Central European contact zone and dont even have to have migrated at the same time but gradually. CTS4002 a branch with a TMRCA of 3000bc being found in BA Eastern Balkans together with L621* which proves divercity is an absolute nail in coffin for any theory other than the Carpathian one not to even mention the strong WHG signal we see poping up in the neighborhood from the Neolithic to the Iron Age. The CTS4002 founder effect fits Cotofeni like a glove.

Lusatians (I2 dominated), Kyjatice (J2a?) and Gáva (E-V13?) were all closely related culturally and there was some gene flow between them too. However, so far all the Lusatian-related I2 finds are from different branches, like those in Tollense or the minority element in the Knovíz culture.

Kind of strange that there is lots of I2 in the BA, all around, in all the important groups from the vicinity of the Proto-Slavs, but its practically all from different main branches. I guess we deal with a hard to track, fairly small population, which might have preferred cremation like most post-Cotofeni/Inner-borderline East Carpathian groups.

EEU has clearly always been a last man/tribe standing type place going through regular periods of divercity booms and then that getting bashed. Even nowadays with most Balkan countries experiencing a demographic crisis on one side and the huge diaspora in Austria/Germany on the other we are seeing the process of how Balkan lineages that will likely be extinct in the east in the future get preserved in the west.

[Radko]

Genetic history of Slovenia (unpublished).

Conclusions:

1. High variation during late Roman sites (c. 3rd to 5th cent.)
- diversity centred on southern Europe
- however, many outliers
- PCA outliers have non-trivial African ancestry

2. Less variation (but similar ancestry) in earlier post-Roman sites (c. 5th to 6th cent.)
- distribution remains centred around southern Europe
- fewer outliers overall
- some cluster with the Caucasus
- but most with present-day southern European populations
- no significant African ancestry, some individuals with some Asian ancestry instead

3. Chronological gap in the 7th to 8th centuries (only one site, n=5)

4. In the 9th-10th century, we see a sudden shift to ancestry associated with northeast Europe
- communities now largely cluster with more north-eastern populations
- everyone fits with European variation
- Asian/African gene flow gone

[Idris]

Well done. We might ask him at some point if he can provide them for the East African adolescent. Even though he's very low coverage, I'd bet we'd at least get a good idea of what kind we're talking about: Nubian-like or Horner-like.

When using Eurogenes K36 this sample (I15499) is most similar to Somalians according to my averages:

I15499

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
                      Africa_SO_Somalia
                              0.7285033
                  Africa_DJI_Djibouti:Afar
                              1.1554493
                  Africa_ET_Afar-Region
                              1.3693630
            Africa_ET_Agew-Awi-Zone:Agaw
                              1.5261458
                Africa_ET_Ethiopia-Amhara
                              1.5389246
              Africa_ET_Ethiopia-Oromia
                              1.7126640
        Africa_ER_Eritrea-Gash-Barka:Tigre
                              1.7400256
(...)

How am I meant to isolate his DNA from the public dataset? Any way of converting it into a file for use on GEDmatch or where I can use, say, IllustrativeDNA to get G25 coordinates? 

Same goes for the Kadruka sample, crazy how there's literally nothing on it 1.5 years later.

[Capsian20]

Well done. We might ask him at some point if he can provide them for the East African adolescent. Even though he's very low coverage, I'd bet we'd at least get a good idea of what kind we're talking about: Nubian-like or Horner-like.

When using Eurogenes K36 this sample (I15499) is most similar to Somalians according to my averages:

I15499

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
                      Africa_SO_Somalia
                              0.7285033
                  Africa_DJI_Djibouti:Afar
                              1.1554493
                  Africa_ET_Afar-Region
                              1.3693630
            Africa_ET_Agew-Awi-Zone:Agaw
                              1.5261458
                Africa_ET_Ethiopia-Amhara
                              1.5389246
              Africa_ET_Ethiopia-Oromia
                              1.7126640
        Africa_ER_Eritrea-Gash-Barka:Tigre
                              1.7400256
(...)

How am I meant to isolate his DNA from the public dataset? Any way of converting it into a file for use on GEDmatch or where I can use, say, IllustrativeDNA to get G25 coordinates? 

Same goes for the Kadruka sample, crazy how there's literally nothing on it 1.5 years later.

Hello here G25-simK12 this sample
I15499,-0.299653,0.109166,-0.030642,-0.074393,0.003656,-0.048278,0.028559,-0.046367,0.128159,-0.075243,-0.004364,-0.008275,0.018483,-0.000793,0.013776,0.000880,0.002760,0.005165,0.000935,0.001060,0.001096,0.003432,-0.000732,-0.000085,-0.000792

[Michalis Moriakos]

Hello here G25-simK12 this sample
I15499,-0.299653,0.109166,-0.030642,-0.074393,0.003656,-0.048278,0.028559,-0.046367,0.128159,-0.075243,-0.004364,-0.008275,0.018483,-0.000793,0.013776,0.000880,0.002760,0.005165,0.000935,0.001060,0.001096,0.003432,-0.000732,-0.000085,-0.000792

K13-based sim you mean? Did you get your North African too?

Actually, I'd like to see all the samples that didn't make it to the official sheets given G25 K13-based sims just so we can just get a sense for how they plot-- even if they're low-coverage we could at least tell who is East Med, who's Northern Euro, etc. K36 doesn't work well for ancient samples so K13-based sims would be best.

[Capsian20]

Hello here G25-simK12 this sample
I15499,-0.299653,0.109166,-0.030642,-0.074393,0.003656,-0.048278,0.028559,-0.046367,0.128159,-0.075243,-0.004364,-0.008275,0.018483,-0.000793,0.013776,0.000880,0.002760,0.005165,0.000935,0.001060,0.001096,0.003432,-0.000732,-0.000085,-0.000792

K13-based sim you mean? Did you get your North African too?

Actually, I'd like to see all the samples that didn't make it to the official sheets given G25 K13-based sims just so we can just get a sense for how they plot-- even if they're low-coverage we could at least tell who is East Med, who's Northern Euro, etc. K36 doesn't work well for ancient samples so K13-based sims would be best.

No, I use only K12b isn't accurate for this samples ? ,for sample North African i dont have unfortunately i hope if you have G25-K23 this sample North African shared please

[Capsian20]

Target: I15499
Distance: 7.9811% / 0.07981109
58.0 ETH_4500BP
33.8 Levant_PPNB
6.6 MAR_Taforalt
1.6 Dinka

Distance to: I15499
0.07143800 Somali_simulated
0.07622678 Oromo_Ethiopia_simulated
0.07802989 Welayta_simulated
0.08931907 Beta_Israel_simulated
0.08958025 Amhara_simulated
0.10525336 Tigrayan_simulated
0.14874319 Aari_simulated
0.19551603 Maasai_simulated
0.21047471 Sandawe_simulated
0.25484322 Hadza_simulated
0.27194732 Gumuz_Ethiopia_simulated
0.28692073 Moroccan_South_simulated
0.29880100 Mozabite_simulated
0.29963925 Libyan_simulated
0.30084688 Anuak_Ethiopia_simulated
0.30712633 Egyptian_simulated
0.30724124 Moroccan_simulated
0.30851764 Tunisian_simulated
0.31106074 Sudanese_simulated
0.31755043 Moroccan_North_simulated
0.31837537 Algerian_simulated
0.34731295 San_simulated
0.36010617 Bantu_Eastcentral_Africa_simulated
0.36412405 Bedouin_simulated
0.36713815 Jordanian_simulated

[ph2ter]

[Capsian20]

Thanks you , is very typical Horn African do you think he is come in Land of Punt ( Somalia or Eritrea or South Sudan?)

[Idris]

Well done. We might ask him at some point if he can provide them for the East African adolescent. Even though he's very low coverage, I'd bet we'd at least get a good idea of what kind we're talking about: Nubian-like or Horner-like.

When using Eurogenes K36 this sample (I15499) is most similar to Somalians according to my averages:

I15499

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
                      Africa_SO_Somalia
                              0.7285033
                  Africa_DJI_Djibouti:Afar
                              1.1554493
                  Africa_ET_Afar-Region
                              1.3693630
            Africa_ET_Agew-Awi-Zone:Agaw
                              1.5261458
                Africa_ET_Ethiopia-Amhara
                              1.5389246
              Africa_ET_Ethiopia-Oromia
                              1.7126640
        Africa_ER_Eritrea-Gash-Barka:Tigre
                              1.7400256
(...)

How am I meant to isolate his DNA from the public dataset? Any way of converting it into a file for use on GEDmatch or where I can use, say, IllustrativeDNA to get G25 coordinates? 

Same goes for the Kadruka sample, crazy how there's literally nothing on it 1.5 years later.

Hello here G25-simK12 this sample
I15499,-0.299653,0.109166,-0.030642,-0.074393,0.003656,-0.048278,0.028559,-0.046367,0.128159,-0.075243,-0.004364,-0.008275,0.018483,-0.000793,0.013776,0.000880,0.002760,0.005165,0.000935,0.001060,0.001096,0.003432,-0.000732,-0.000085,-0.000792

Thanks a tonne, man. Really helpful.

[Capsian20]

Well done. We might ask him at some point if he can provide them for the East African adolescent. Even though he's very low coverage, I'd bet we'd at least get a good idea of what kind we're talking about: Nubian-like or Horner-like.

When using Eurogenes K36 this sample (I15499) is most similar to Somalians according to my averages:

I15499

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
                      Africa_SO_Somalia
                              0.7285033
                  Africa_DJI_Djibouti:Afar
                              1.1554493
                  Africa_ET_Afar-Region
                              1.3693630
            Africa_ET_Agew-Awi-Zone:Agaw
                              1.5261458
                Africa_ET_Ethiopia-Amhara
                              1.5389246
              Africa_ET_Ethiopia-Oromia
                              1.7126640
        Africa_ER_Eritrea-Gash-Barka:Tigre
                              1.7400256
(...)

How am I meant to isolate his DNA from the public dataset? Any way of converting it into a file for use on GEDmatch or where I can use, say, IllustrativeDNA to get G25 coordinates? 

Same goes for the Kadruka sample, crazy how there's literally nothing on it 1.5 years later.

Hello here G25-simK12 this sample
I15499,-0.299653,0.109166,-0.030642,-0.074393,0.003656,-0.048278,0.028559,-0.046367,0.128159,-0.075243,-0.004364,-0.008275,0.018483,-0.000793,0.013776,0.000880,0.002760,0.005165,0.000935,0.001060,0.001096,0.003432,-0.000732,-0.000085,-0.000792

Thanks a tonne, man. Really helpful.

My pleasure , Idris