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Stolarek et al: Genetic history of East-Central Europe...
(11-12-2023, 12:28 AM)leonardo Wrote:
(11-12-2023, 12:10 AM)PopGenist82 Wrote:
(11-11-2023, 11:46 PM)leonardo Wrote:
(11-11-2023, 08:58 PM)PopGenist82 Wrote:
(11-10-2023, 09:30 PM)leonardo Wrote: Didn't the Trzciniec Culture contribute to the Pomeranian Culture?

That relationship is not clear. They’re very different 'cultures', one was based on barrows , the other cremating with an early centre in Pomorania
This doesn’t exclude the chance that adna shows an actual link.

Quote:Regarding a remnant, it would not be outrageous to assume a remnant remained. In most mass migrations a remnant remains. We know that even after the Great Migration, Germanic people remained in their original area. Some likely combined with the incoming Slavs to create the Sukow-Dziedzice group.

There are no links.

Przeworsk & Wielbark end by ~ 400 AD, the population having moved to the carpathian basin and/ or Western Europe (and Black Sea before that)
Between 400-450, the Vistula -Oder region is chaos, and a transit zone for Goths, Huns and Alans.
500-600 the region shows links with Thuringia and occasional scandinavians
Sukow culture is late, 700-800 AD.

I've seen some sources place the Sukow-Dziedzice group at an earlier date, but regardless, the issue is whether a Germanic remnant remained. In the end, even that isn't of consequence to my main point: if M458 was present in the Pomeranian Culture, a remnant could have remained when most of it migrated southern and east. I was simply using the concept of a Germanic remnant in the Sukow-Dziedzice group as an analogy. The south and eastern migration would have taken it into the Zarubinsty Culture and from there, as the Zarubinsty Culture ended and migrated in a radial fashion, who knows where they went. It is interesting to note that L1029 seems to have expanded in such as fashion. L260 and YP515 did as well, but in not such a noticeable fashion.
[Image: AmeUQv5.png]

If M458 is from a remnant Pomeranian culture group, then it shouuld uncontroversially appear in Wielbark culture. 
WIth high-coverage aDNA, we will be able to see where modern lineages sit under.

Yeah, I'm not interested in re-igniting that conversation, other than to say one person's "controversy" is not for another. When this thread first popped up on AG there was a consensus that 8-10% of the Stolarek samples were M458, a sizable minority in such a study. As I mentioned, we are talking about a remnant. Even in this thread you can see some of them listed here, https://genarchivist.com/showthread.php?...92#pid1692 and here, https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-L1029/tree

I don’t see any controversy. A closer look revealed high contamination rates in those specific samples, for some reason not commented on by the authors. 
Your “remnant” theory is possible, but needs demonstration. I have nothing against it and would certainly make for an interesting spin
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RE: Stolarek et al: Genetic history of East-Central Europe... - by PopGenist82 - 11-12-2023, 02:15 AM

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