(11-09-2023, 02:24 PM)Jaska Wrote: Rodoorn, what you wrote is not linguistic evidence. Therefore it cannot overrule the actual linguistic evidence:
Northwest and East Germanic can both be derived from Scandinavia. Therefore, their common ancestor Late Proto-Germanic can be located in Scandinavia.
It was exactly formulated the way you did, so this would be likewise!
Recap.
Jaska:
"Similarly, the Germanic lineage may have been present south from Scandinavia for a long time (even since the very distant Pre-Germanic), even though the post-Proto-Germanic expansion from the north updated the language in the south (to be more "fashionable", a sociolinguist might propose). We could see it as a wide ethno-linguistic network, within which the location of the prestigious innovation center shifts due to political/military, technological, or other developments. And such shifts may be reflected in the archaeological or genetic data."
Rodoorn:
"So the Germanic lineage may have been present in Southern Scandinavia for a long time (even since the very distant Pre-Germanic), even though the post-Proto-Germanic expansion from "the South" (the Suebi) updated the language in "the North" (to be more "fashionable", a sociolinguist might propose).
Because there is one thing that is very clear:the core or 'the location of the prestigious innovation center shifts due to political/military, technological, or other developments' was along the Suebi and especially the Semnones."
> So if I don't argue linguistic, you don't either!
The crucial thing is that "fashionable" ( also translated by you as "prestige") was the crucial factor for the expansion N>S.
>But in the case of the the Angli, Warini - as attested Germanic speakers- came the prestige not from Sweden but from the other Suebi and specific the Semnones. That's the core. That's point Jaska!
> You can by no means make concrete that the prestige from Sweden/ Scandinavia towards the Angli and Warini was present. From the Suebi it can be made explicit in archeological and even in fashionable way (the Suebian knot). Even by an "eye witness" (Tacitus)
So if there were two hub in LBA/IA that could have effected the Germanic speaking Angli and Warini namely "the hub around the Malären" and the "hub around the Elbe-Havel" then there can't be no other conclusion that the prestige of the Semnones towards the Angli and Warini was tremendous bigger!
Please make concrete what could point towards a bigger prestige and affiliation (towards the Warini and Angli) of the Malären hub.