05-05-2024, 10:03 PM
Yes, I know this version of the theory. A model that identifies a common origin for both Yamnaya and Corded Ware makes sense. But where are the R1b-L151 samples, marking their origin in Ukraine? Where the R1a-M417 samples before their entry into Corded Ware territory?
Do you share my intuition that EHG/ANE is the core element of Indoeuropean genetics? Then we have no choice, we have to follow the Wolga upstream ("Wolga cline") and get to Veretye in Karelia, the oldest EHG find so far. In my version there was a general migration from north to south by ANE/EHG-rich people, caused by a climate change. In that case you will find EHG/ANE-rich populations in the whole area, and you can successfully use them to modulate the admixture of adjacent populations. But that doesn't solve, in my opinion, the Indoeuropean question.
We know in fact a lot about this people from their mythology, and some aspects are not compatible with an origin in Ukraine. Why are there so many consistent announcements in Indoeuropean mythology and tradition that point to a common origin in the north, to a home north of the Polar Circle, to a climate change that forced them to leave their homeland? The Germanic "Fimbul Winters" are well known, I believe, so I will give some other examples collected by William Warren in "Paradise lost":
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"It is simply the Arctic Eden of humanity remembered as it was before the Evil One entered, and “by his witchcraft counter-created winter and the worst of plagues." There "are (now) ten winter months there, two summer months; and those are cold for the waters, cold for the earth, and cold for the trees.“
(Third Fargard of the Avesta, Persian)
“A year of mortals is a day and a night of the gods, or regents of the universe seated around the North Pole; and again their division is this: their day is the northern and their night the southern course of the sun.”
(Code of Manu, Hindu tradition)
“In the beginning the stars revolved in a tholiform manner.” (Anaxagoras)
Comment: Tholiform means "like in a dome", circling around the head of the observer. Anaxagoras himself defined the motion more fully when he said that it was a motion not underneath, but around the earth. Anaximenes would seem to have the same idea, for he is reported to have likened the primitive revolution of the sky to the rotating of a man’s hat upon his head. (Warren)
A learned Danish writer pronounces it “remarkable” that the Scandinavian mythology informs us that, before the establishment of the present order of the world, the sun which now rises in the East, “rose in the South”. (Warren) Comment: North of the Polar Circle day and night endure half a year - and the sun rises and sinks in the south.
"O Maker of the material world, thou Holy One! What lights are there in the Vara which Yima made?”
Ahura Mazda answered: "There are uncreated lights and created lights. There the stars, the moon, and the sun are only once a year seen to rise and set, and a year seems only as a day.” (2. Fargard of the Avesta, Persian)
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This is just a short collection. If I had some time, I could give you many more, similar quotations. A well known example ist the "Arctic home in the Vedas", written by the Indian intellectual B.G. Tilak - showing that the Indian homeland must have been located in the far north, beyond the Polar Circle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arctic..._the_Vedas
All these phenomena can not be experienced or observed in the Ukraine or the Pontic Steppe.
Do you share my intuition that EHG/ANE is the core element of Indoeuropean genetics? Then we have no choice, we have to follow the Wolga upstream ("Wolga cline") and get to Veretye in Karelia, the oldest EHG find so far. In my version there was a general migration from north to south by ANE/EHG-rich people, caused by a climate change. In that case you will find EHG/ANE-rich populations in the whole area, and you can successfully use them to modulate the admixture of adjacent populations. But that doesn't solve, in my opinion, the Indoeuropean question.
We know in fact a lot about this people from their mythology, and some aspects are not compatible with an origin in Ukraine. Why are there so many consistent announcements in Indoeuropean mythology and tradition that point to a common origin in the north, to a home north of the Polar Circle, to a climate change that forced them to leave their homeland? The Germanic "Fimbul Winters" are well known, I believe, so I will give some other examples collected by William Warren in "Paradise lost":
---
"It is simply the Arctic Eden of humanity remembered as it was before the Evil One entered, and “by his witchcraft counter-created winter and the worst of plagues." There "are (now) ten winter months there, two summer months; and those are cold for the waters, cold for the earth, and cold for the trees.“
(Third Fargard of the Avesta, Persian)
“A year of mortals is a day and a night of the gods, or regents of the universe seated around the North Pole; and again their division is this: their day is the northern and their night the southern course of the sun.”
(Code of Manu, Hindu tradition)
“In the beginning the stars revolved in a tholiform manner.” (Anaxagoras)
Comment: Tholiform means "like in a dome", circling around the head of the observer. Anaxagoras himself defined the motion more fully when he said that it was a motion not underneath, but around the earth. Anaximenes would seem to have the same idea, for he is reported to have likened the primitive revolution of the sky to the rotating of a man’s hat upon his head. (Warren)
A learned Danish writer pronounces it “remarkable” that the Scandinavian mythology informs us that, before the establishment of the present order of the world, the sun which now rises in the East, “rose in the South”. (Warren) Comment: North of the Polar Circle day and night endure half a year - and the sun rises and sinks in the south.
"O Maker of the material world, thou Holy One! What lights are there in the Vara which Yima made?”
Ahura Mazda answered: "There are uncreated lights and created lights. There the stars, the moon, and the sun are only once a year seen to rise and set, and a year seems only as a day.” (2. Fargard of the Avesta, Persian)
---
This is just a short collection. If I had some time, I could give you many more, similar quotations. A well known example ist the "Arctic home in the Vedas", written by the Indian intellectual B.G. Tilak - showing that the Indian homeland must have been located in the far north, beyond the Polar Circle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arctic..._the_Vedas
All these phenomena can not be experienced or observed in the Ukraine or the Pontic Steppe.