E-V13 - Theories on its Origin and New Data

[Riverman]

Also the idea that the Celts replace the local Dacian/North Thracian people can be laid to rest. All papers on Scythians, Celts and Sarmatians prove that up to this point the local element survived in great numbers. And this local element was more "Balkan-like" = Dacians, even before the Romans.

Two papers confirming the Dacian element stayed dominant in Transylvania in the Celtic period.

These studies don't claim anything about Dacians/Thracians being the "local group", nor about what the "old Balkanic" component in Transylvania in this period looks like other than the fact that it relatively resembles the CA/pre-LBA groups.

We already have data about one such group from Romania and they're definitely not "Dacians".



You're inferring conclusions which don't exist in any of these studies. For example, the fact that LBA ancestry did exist in eastern Hungary even after the Celtic migrations is a known fact because we can see in all existing studies that pre-IA lineages continued to exist (R-Z2103, I-M223, several G2a lines, even some old non-Celtic MBA pre-TC lines etc) This type of ancestry was not replaced and it managed to remain distinct, but it has nothing to do with Thracians or Dacians.

It has all to do with Dacians, because its E-V13 which is the most common local lineage in Eastern Hungary in the Avar period after Celtic R-L51/R-L2. The other haplogroups you mention are irrelevant for the Transtisza zone. They never played a significant role there after the EBA to begin with.

And to repeat it the 100th times, Monteoru is not Gáva, is not necessarily represenative of the people from the Transtisza zone/Transylvania. Groups like Eastern Otomani, Wietenberg, Suciu de Sus and most importantly Gáva are not the same. Monteoru were closer related to the groups in Bulgaria and Encrusted Pottery, whereas Gáva emerged from the cremation block in the Eastern Carpathain/Carpatho-Balkan sphere.
You can come up with unrelated samples all the time, but they don't prove anything other than that outside of the Eastern Carpathian basin, there was no signfiicant level of E-V13. Not in Western Hungary, not in Southern Poland outside of the Carpathian range, but also not in Moldova, Bulgaria, Serbia, Albania, Croatia, Macedonia, Greece, Crete etc.

That's the only thing these samples from people which don't belong to the crucial Carpathian cremation block prove. Nothing else. And considering how big the E-V13 population must have been in the MBA-LBA already, we can only look for a major population and formation to carry it. The only one left being the Carpathian cremation block, which was united under the Gáva-related Channelled Ware horizon. All the other candidates being now either disproven directly or too small.