Coming Soon: Y-DNA Haplogroups for Family Finder

[Mabrams]

The tree increased from 367,768 to 382,000 overnight. Plus 14,232. A shade under 4%.

For R1b men, the clades of M269, P312, DF27, L21, U106 all increased 4% or more.
My personal SNP-of-Interest, Z341* went up 12% (I have no idea why. Dumb Luck).

So apparently still cranking out V3s. I hope this goes on for a while.

OTOH, I have seen zero effect on my personal FF or Y12 lists. Maybe that updating occurs later today.

[Mabrams]

Wish List

FTDNA should add a BigY Filter to the HaploTrees.

It would make getting accurate assessments of branch developments much easier if we had direct counts, and not have to manipulate the numbers from different screens and then wonder if our approach is valid.

The large influx of FF kits is changing the character of the tree. Even more so, when the V2s start hitting the tree.

[randalgibbs]

You can determine both the total number of men on the block tree and the number that are Big Y tested by going to the top of the block tree (Type A-PR2921 in Go to Branch Name).
Every man is in one of 2 branches under A-PR2921 - either A-L1090 or A-L1087.

If you hover your mouse over Aggregated Public Variants, it will show the number of Big Y men on that branch (see below). If you then scroll to the bottom and click on the Countries, you can get the total number of men on that branch (Big Y, SNP tested, FF). You can do this on any branch in the block tree to find how many men are in any branch and how many of them are Big Y tested.

Currently under A-L1090, there are 381,989 men - 110,187 of whom are Big Y tested.
Under A-L1087 there are a total of 11 men, 9 of whom are Big Y tested.

The total numbers from the block tree are 382,000 SNP tested men, 110,198 Big Y.
The 382,000 number exactly matches the number of men on the haplotree.

Unfortunately, there is no way to determine for the non Big Y men whether they are Family Finder or SNP or both.

[ArmandoR1b]

Take for example E-Z5018, it has only 3 BigY testers which are branch participants, but there are 35 people as branch participants if you go to the country statistics. Ergo, those 32 are SNP and FF tested or whatever.

Also, if you go upstream to the most basal A haplogroup, you can also see the total number of BigY-tree downstream testers, and that's way more than the BigY testers and includes FF and SNP testers.

Probably you used another view or mode if there exists one? I don't know. Its the same all the way down to my main branch, which being not covered by FF tests and I don't even know if there would be a SNP package. At every level there are way higher numbers for branch participants than there are BigY testers.

In Time Tree those FF/SNP testers don't appear. I don't know of a count, I just observed it, because the Time Tree would look very strange otherwise with hundreds if not thousands of samples on the basal position of the main branches.

Edit: If you meant what I wrote, when clicking on say Z5018 and seeing those 3, then yes, that's the BigY testers, but the total number in the country statistic includes the SNP/FF testers and those are the ones we can easily gather and compare. Like its impossible to tell from the downstream testers of E-Z5018 who's SNP/FF tested and whose BigY tested, because one needs to check at every step and every branch how they are looking.
But I referred to the country statistics in Blocktree and the country flags.

I wasn't referring to only branches that stop at the same level I was looking at. That is just Branch Participants, 1st column in the Haplotree, in the example you provided. I already knew that those are testers that have no derived downstream SNP either due to type of test or being in a branch that does not match anyone else. The number I was referring to is the 3rd column All Downstream Participants which includes people that stop at that branch.

E-Z5018 has 2,427 participants in Haplotree All Downstream Participants. E-Z5018 has 841 Big Y participants in Big Y Block Tree. So there are 1586 All Downstream Participants without a Big Y test if those numbers are correct.

In order to see the 841 Big Y participants in Big Y Block Tree for E-Z5018 you have to go up one branch to E-FTT49 then hover over the subclade


  Big Y Block Tree.png (Size: 29.22 KB / Downloads: 141)

If you do the same for the subclades of E-Z5018 at the E-Z5018 level the sum of them should be similar to the total of 841 for E-Z5018.

Discover for E-Z5018 says that there are 2,293 DNA tested descendants. I have noticed that Discover might not keep up with Haplotree or it accurately excludes kits that stop at the branch. I will have to monitor that for my FF tested subclade.

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-Z5018/story

The first column for the count in the Haplotree can be important for finding the count of people that stop at that branch if you already know that FF doesn't test downstream from that specific subclade. For instance, I should have kept count of that column for R-L151 since I already know of an example that ceased at that branch.


edit: even if we did it your way it is still accurate the way I worded post #343 in that "The Haplotree tree is for all SNPs tested kits, Big Y, individual SNP tests, SNP packs, and FF subclades" and "Big Y Block tree... is only for Big Y kits " What you showed doesn't show that SNP tested and family finder kits are in the Big Y Block Tree. It does show an average of 34 Private Variants but that has nothing to do with FF kits since they don't have Private Variants. So I am still confused as to why you thought SNP tested and family finder kits are in the BigY tree unless you meant to say SNP tested and family finder kits are in the Haplotree. If that is what you meant then what I had already said was the same thing with "The Haplotree tree is for all SNPs tested kits, Big Y, individual SNP tests, SNP packs, and FF subclades"

[ArmandoR1b]

Overnight the numbers have increased for both Big Y Block tree and Haplotree. Much more for Haplotree of course since it includes all SNP tested kits. Big Y Block Tree only includes Big Y tested kits for the way I do it.

Haplotree increased 14,232
Big Y Block Tree increased 335

Here are the changes for R-L151 since I am now tracking it due to v2 being lower resolution than v3 GSA.

Haplotree - L151 increased 6,044
Big Y Block Tree - L151 increased 124

That is a huge increase for R-L151.

I didn't track DF27, which I should have, but Mabrams reported 20,146 Haplotree kits yesterday. Today there are 21,060 so that increased 914 which is too many for all of them to be Big Y. So either there are some DF27 subclades in v2 or v3 is also still being processed along with v2. I know for sure v2 is being processed.

I also tracked my own line tested by FF.
Haplotree - increased 50
Big Y Block Tree - increased 2

Again, either there are some DF27 subclades in v2 or v3 is also still being processed along with v2. I know for sure v2 is being processed. An increase of 50 is too high for an overnight increase of Big Y kits in that subclade.

[ArmandoR1b]

Where do you get that stat from?

You can determine the number of Big Y tests by typing A-PR2921 in "Go to Branch Name" in the block tree and then hovering your mouse over the Aggregated Public Variants under Both A-L1090 and A-L1087 which will display the number of downstream Big Y participants.

Currently there are 109,529 Big Y tests under A-L1090 and 9 Big Y tests under A-L1087 or 109,538 total

Thanks. I found what you mentioned in the Big Y block tree. They should add those stats to the public haplotree.

I've been tracking the number of men on the public haplotree since July 2023. Here are the numbers I recorded on 1st day of each month since then.

Jul 240,247
Aug 241,552
Sep 242,830
Oct 243,469
Nov 244,314
Dec 245,254
Jan 284,791
Feb 286,704
Mar 294,205
Apr 298,243
May 323,134

Thanks. Your numbers are the same as Hygelac. That's good.

Have you kept track of total Big Y kits on a monthly basis?

I started in July 2023, when I figured out how to do so.

Jul 96245
Aug 97621
Sep 98987
Oct 100285
Nov 101378
Dec 102218
Jan 103372
Feb 104402
Mar 106474
Apr 108936
May 109538

FTDNA should provide, in the Public Haplotree, the actual number of STR tested kits with SNP testing and the number of FF kits without STR testing in addition to the total number of SNP tested kits and the total number of Big Y tested kits.

There is also a number of people with STR tested people without FF. I guess they are about 25%. So we will all still see people with STR matching, even at the Y67 or Y111 level, without a haplogroup.

Wish List

FTDNA should add a BigY Filter to the HaploTrees. 

It would make getting accurate assessments of branch developments much easier if we had direct counts, and not have to manipulate the numbers from different screens and then wonder if our approach is valid.

The large influx of FF kits is changing the character of the tree.  Even more so, when the V2s start hitting the tree.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a filter although it would be nice. As you can see I had already mentioned that they should provide the total number of Big Y tested kits in the haplotree. I was implying that it should be a separate count and that the count should be reflective of each specific branch of the haplotree. Same goes for STR tested kits in the Haplotree.

edit: I wonder if the Haplotree is being updated based on Big Y and FF v3 kits only or if they are also updating the Haplotree using the v2 kits that have been given a haplogroup.

[sirdan]

To interrupt your discussion, I check FF haplogroup growth in blocktree. FF users usually are labeled unknown. However, there are some people that have both autosomal and STR too, so they are able to enter paternal place. Some of them do it, just small percentage leave unknown. It would be best to know the state of haplogroup before the FTDNA announcement. However, more or less, you can judge those with FF only by uknown marker.

[ArmandoR1b]

To interrupt your discussion, I check FF haplogroup growth in blocktree. FF users usually are labeled unknown. However, there are some people that have both autosomal and STR too, so they are able to enter paternal place. Some of them do it, just small percentage leave unknown. It would be best to know the state of haplogroup before the FTDNA announcement. However, more or less, you can judge those with FF only by uknown marker.

As far as I have been able to tell you can't see haplogroup growth in blocktree. Will you provide a screenshot for what you are claiming?

edit: I really think you have Haplotree and Block tree confused

[sirdan]

To interrupt your discussion, I check FF haplogroup growth in blocktree. FF users usually are labeled unknown. However, there are some people that have both autosomal and STR too, so they are able to enter paternal place. Some of them do it, just small percentage leave unknown. It would be best to know the state of haplogroup before the FTDNA announcement. However, more or less, you can judge those with FF only by uknown marker.

As far as I have been able to tell you can't see haplogroup growth in blocktree. Will you provide a screenshot for what you are claiming?

edit: I really think you have Haplotree and Block tree confused

Block tree shows quantity.
For egzample, people count with unknown coutry on I-S7642 is amazing (first column, descendants are to the right)
   

[ArmandoR1b]

To interrupt your discussion, I check FF haplogroup growth in blocktree. FF users usually are labeled unknown. However, there are some people that have both autosomal and STR too, so they are able to enter paternal place. Some of them do it, just small percentage leave unknown. It would be best to know the state of haplogroup before the FTDNA announcement. However, more or less, you can judge those with FF only by uknown marker.

As far as I have been able to tell you can't see haplogroup growth in blocktree. Will you provide a screenshot for what you are claiming?

edit: I really think you have Haplotree and Block tree confused

Block tree shows quantity.
For egzample, people count with unknown coutry on I-S7642 is amazing (first column, descendants are to the right)

That is not the Block Tree. That is the Haplotree. I was right. You have them confused.

edit: I just remembered. You have not had a Big Y test that is why you are not familiar with the Big Y Block Tree.

[sirdan]

As far as I have been able to tell you can't see haplogroup growth in blocktree. Will you provide a screenshot for what you are claiming?

edit: I really think you have Haplotree and Block tree confused

Block tree shows quantity.
For egzample, people count with unknown coutry on I-S7642 is amazing (first column, descendants are to the right)

That is not the Block Tree. That is the Haplotree. I was right. You have them confused.

edit: I just remembered. You have not had a Big Y test that is why you are not familiar with the Big Y Block Tree.

Man, just go there and check yourself.

You are confusing me with another guy.

I have explained the mechanism already.

[ArmandoR1b]

Block tree shows quantity.
For egzample, people count with unknown coutry on I-S7642 is amazing (first column, descendants are to the right)

That is not the Block Tree. That is the Haplotree. I was right. You have them confused.
edit: I just remembered. You have not had a Big Y test that is why you are not familiar with the Big Y Block Tree.

Man, just go there and check yourself.
You are confusing me with another guy.
I have explained the mechanism already.

Ok man, I know what the issue is now.

The screenshot you posted can be seen from https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-d...me=I-S7642

It isn't necessary to go to the Block Tree to see the same information that is in the Haplotree.

This is what is in the I-S7642 Haplotree
   

This is the number of I-S7642 Big Y participants per the Block Tree

  I-S7642 Block Tree Big Y participants.png (Size: 28.16 KB / Downloads: 93)

This is the same info from I-S7642 Haplotree within the Block Tree. Notice that it has the identical information that is in the Haplotree.
   

edit: I guess I really should be calling it the Country Report since that is what the title is but the way we were getting it is from the Haplotree.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

Today L151 total in the FTDNA public haplotree (logged in under country report) is 132167, 

Of the L151 subclades in the FTDNA tree, as of today there are:
P312 is 92266 (69.8%) 
U106 is  35211 (26.6%)
No subclade 3214  (2.4%)
S1194 is 1357  (1.0%)
A8083 is 117 (0.08%)


Of the P312 subclades 

Z290 is 49822 (54.0%)
Z46516  is 37872 (30.0%)
DF19  is 2242 (2.4%)
No subclade is 1505 (3.0%)
L238  is 729 (0.8%)
A9063 is 46 (0.09%)
Y18211  is 40 (0.08%)
BY25512 is 10 (0.02%)


Currently

U106 is 32% the size of P312
Z46516 (includes DF27, U152, and DF99) is 74% the size of Z290 (almost exclusively L21),
U152 (15798) is 75% the size of DF27 (21060). Together they make up Z46516>ZZ11

Z46516>FGC84729 is 994 (553 of which is DF99). This is a brother branch to Z46516>ZZ11( which is almost exclusively DF27 and U152)


I'm curious how these ratios will change over time.

EDIT:
R1b/M343 is 148,601 with 2295 (1.5%) not in a subclade,
M269 is 145,426, 6815 (4.7%) not in a subclade

[ArmandoR1b]

I have found some v2 kits that have a Z195 subclade and they show Z195+ also. So at least close to half R-DF27 kits with only v2 FF for SNP testing should at least get Z195+ as a result. In that regard FF v2 is better than 23andme v4. That means that R-L151 won't be as much as it seemed it would be. I still don't like the lack of testing for P312 and the lack of negative SNPs.

[Mitchell-Atkins]

Here are the numbers for today's FTDNA haplotree totals for some select countries and R1b branches in Europe, in case anybody wants to run some percentages.

NOTE that Z46516 is mostly made up of U152, DF27 and FGC84729



In England there is almost an equal split between U106, Z290, and Z46516 (36%, 29%, 28% of L151 respectively)

And in France there is rough parity between Z290 (almost exclusively L21), U152, and DF27 (23%, 31%, 38% of P312 respectively)