Childebayeva et al. Bronze Age Northern Eurasian Genetics

[VladMC]

tru

"dated to the Sintashta time, determined by the AMS dates of the monuments of the Cis-Ural region within the 20th–18th centuries BC (the AMS dates of the Sintashta culture and the South Ural Abashevo culture were taken into account).
...
According to materials from the burial ground near Mount Berezovaya, the time of STF-Sintashta contacts falls on the 20th–18th centuries. BC uh."

2023 г.
https://evrazstep.ru/index.php/aes/article/view/1029

[tru]

Fatyanovo is not MLBA, it belongs to EBA or En according to the Russian traditions or according to the European tradition to LN. Fatyanovo is synchronous with the Catacombs MBA, but there is almost no bronze in it, which is a sign of EBA.

Middle_Don is not an Eneolithic culture, but a Neolithic one. Volosovo (Sakhtish_IIa) is also Neolithic.

[VladMC]

I think that this particular sample is not Fatyanovo, but Fatyanoid ceramics.

[tru]

tru
"dated to the Sintashta time, determined by the AMS dates of the monuments of the Cis-Ural region within the 20th–18th centuries BC (the AMS dates of the Sintashta culture and the South Ural Abashevo culture were taken into account).
...
According to materials from the burial ground near Mount Berezovaya, the time of STF-Sintashta contacts falls on the 20th–18th centuries. BC uh."

This is nothing, since dates are just estimates, they do not prove anything and do not determine anything. They are all approximate. The 20th century is from 2000 to 2100 BC, so see that Sopka-2/4B falls into this interval.

It is important that Sintashta of ST:
ROT016 XY R1a1a1b-Z645 U5a1+@16192 2137-1919 calBC 
ROT003 XY R1a1a1-M417 R1a1a ca. 4150-3800 BP,

[VladMC]

2350-2130 BC is still older

[tru]

2137 BC is older than 2130, and even more ancient than 2030.

[VladMC]

2350 BC is older than 1919 ВС, yes

[VladMC]

Objectively speaking, not a single sample of Rostovka chooses Sintashta, except for one outlayer RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o3

Target: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT017
Distance: 1.9257% / 0.01925731 | R5P
27.2 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MBA
22.0 RUS_Lake_Baikal_MBA
21.4 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o3
18.6 Russia_Baraba_MLBA_Vengerovo2
10.8 GRC_Minoan_Lasithi_MBA

Target: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT016
Distance: 1.9121% / 0.01912112 | R5P
23.4 CHN_Chemurcheck_Chagangole_MBA1
22.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MBA
21.8 CZE_Unetice_MLBA
18.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MLBA
14.0 KAZ_Botai_EBA

Target: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT015
Distance: 1.7141% / 0.01714054 | R5P
45.2 CHN_Tarim_MLBA1
34.8 RUS_Kurma_EMBA
12.8 Hungary_MBA_Kisapostag
5.2 USA_San_Nicolas_E_EMBA
2.0 KEN_Nyarindi_MLBA

Target: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT004
Distance: 2.4256% / 0.02425633 | R5P
28.8 CHN_Tarim_MLBA1
27.4 CHN_Dzungaria_EBA2
17.0 Bell_Beaker_CZE_early
14.4 Denmark_EBA
12.4 Russia_MLBA_Vengerovo2

Target: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT002
Distance: 3.6651% / 0.03665105 | R5P
87.2 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MBA
7.2 Bell_Beaker_CZE_late
3.4 Russia_BOO_MLBA
2.2 KEN_Nyarindi_MLBA

[VladMC]

We do not know the genetics of Abashevo, Balanovo, Babino, Volsk-Lbishchevo. Therefore, there is no basis to claim that their genetics were the same as Sintashta’s. Their genetics could be exactly the same as those of the samples from my model

[qijia]

tru
"dated to the Sintashta time, determined by the AMS dates of the monuments of the Cis-Ural region within the 20th–18th centuries BC (the AMS dates of the Sintashta culture and the South Ural Abashevo culture were taken into account).
...
According to materials from the burial ground near Mount Berezovaya, the time of STF-Sintashta contacts falls on the 20th–18th centuries. BC uh."

This is nothing, since dates are just estimates, they do not prove anything and do not determine anything. They are all approximate. The 20th century is from 2000 to 2100 BC, so see that Sopka-2/4B falls into this interval.

It is important that Sintashta of ST:
ROT016 XY R1a1a1b-Z645 U5a1+@16192 2137-1919 calBC 
ROT003 XY R1a1a1-M417 R1a1a ca. 4150-3800 BP,

I think we need to wait more:

1. EHG R1a with mtDNA C

2. R1a -z93 migration from altai:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-D6-Vl_BxF0Y/U...+small.png

3. sintashta location, not westside of the Urals :

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uplo...ogical.jpg

  "the important cultural innovations (horse-drawn chariots, bronze alloys) that appeared in the Eurasian steppes and the subsequent migrations that took place within the zone were probably of a corporate character and involved different cultures (Poltavka, Catacomb, Multi-roller ceramics, Abashevo)"

Steppe_MLBA_oWSHG Sintashta_MLBA_o2 R1b1a1a2a2 Steppe_MLBA_oWSHG Sintashta_MLBA_o2 R1a1a1b2a2a Steppe_MLBA_oWSHG Sintashta_MLBA_o1 R1b1a1a2 Steppe_MLBA_oWSHG Sintashta_MLBA_o1 Q1a Steppe_MLBA_oWSHG Sintashta_MLBA_o1 Q1a2 Steppe_MLBA_oWSHG_brother.I1057_brother.I1056 Sintashta_MLBA_o2 R1a1a Steppe_MLBA_oWSHG_brother.I1057_brother.I1058 Sintashta_MLBA_o2 R1a1a1b

4. andronovo oldest R1a at east Karzak:

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/im...R1a_v2.jpg

5. If it true, seima turbino is also applied. Third eye people okunevo culture migrated to south asia according to petroglyph :

"In the Avesta there is a river and a great goddess who commands Ahura Mazda himself, with a clear geographical description. This is the largest river in the world, which is simultaneously fed by melting snow along its entire route. She name in Avestan is Ardvī Sūrā, with the epithet Anāhitā, this is the Irtysh, and considering that the Irtysh was much more watery during the time of Sintashta because Lake Mansi disappeared just a couple of thousand years before, then it really was the largest for the locals. Avesta: Ardvī Sūrā < PII. *Erdvī Šūrā > *PFU. Ert(v)iš > Old Turkic : Ertis' > Kyrgyz: Эртиш > Tatar : İrteş > Russian: Irtysh. PII. *op "water" > *PFU. ob/Tajik: ob"

"Indo-Iranian arose in Andronovo, and not in Europe, read Kuzmina, who clearly showed that the Indo-Iranian language is clearly tied specifically to the Andronovo culture and reflects only its realities, but does not reflect the realities of any European culture, including Abashevo. For example, Abashevo raised pigs, while Sintashta and Andronovo did not raise pigs and there is no word for pig in the Indo-Iranian language. Proto-Indo-Iranian, respectively, is Sintashta, its language is phonetically close to the CWC languages, but lexically already Indo-Iranian."

6. andronovo proper skull cannot be originated in sintashta at all. Likewise bellbeaker skull can NEVER originate in CWC whatever genetic scientists say.:

"At the same time a more massive type of Europoid (the so-called Pamir-Fergana or Andronovo type), predominated across most of Andronovo territory in the Urals, across all of Kazakhstan, in Fergana, and as far as the Sayan-Altay and Minusinsk Basin (Debets 1948; Levin 1954; Ginzburg 1957; 1962a; Alekseev 1961a, 1961c; 1967; Trofimova 1962a; Gokhman 1973; 1980; Rykushina 1976; 1979)"

[tru]

ROT004 XY Q1b-M346 H1 2202-1983 calBC may also be from Sintashta, since we know that this haplogroup is in Sintashta, there are even entire burial grounds consisting of people belonging almost exclusively to this haplogroup.

[Norfern-Ostrobothnian]

Q1b-M346 seems more like a WSHG or EHG introgression into Sintashta than a haplogroup particularly associated with them. Especially considering how much WSHG ROT004 has as well.

[VladMC]

ok, I removed all samples younger than 2000 BC, leaving only Sintashta and Akakul

Target: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT017
Distance: 1.8318% / 0.01831788 | R5P
30.0 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MBA
26.6 RUS_Baikal_MBA
18.8 CHN_Chemurcheck_Chagangole_MBA1
16.0 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o3
8.6 Italy_EMBA

Target: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT016
Distance: 1.9783% / 0.01978288 | R5P
25.6 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MBA
24.8 Yamnaya_UKR_EMBA
24.4 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
19.2 KAZ_Botai_EBA
6.0 Poland_EBA_Slonowice

Target: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT015
Distance: 1.9201% / 0.01920115 | R5P
44.2 KAZ_Botai_EBA
32.6 RUS_Kurma_EMBA
11.2 Russia_Volosovo_EBA_Sakhtish_IIa
6.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_EMBA2
5.8 USA_San_Nicolas_E_EMBA

Target: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT004
Distance: 2.5900% / 0.02590037 | R5P
37.8 Kazakhstan_MBA_Andronovo
28.0 KAZ_Kazakh_steppe_MBA
14.2 Denmark_EBA
10.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
9.8 RUS_Afanasievo_EBA

Target: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT002
Distance: 3.6776% / 0.03677626 | R5P
88.6 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MBA
6.2 Bell_Beaker_CZE_late
3.0 RUS_Afanasievo_EBA
2.2 ETH_Mota_MBA

[tru]

Your models do not have Sintashta ROT003 XY R1a1a1-M417 R1a1a ca. 4150-3800 BP, because everyone else except ROT016 XY R1a1a1b-Z645 U5a1+@16192 2137-1919 calBC  and probably ROT004 XY Q1b-M346 H1 2202-1983 calBC are not Sintashta by definition. here are the correct sources.

[VladMC]

Distance to: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT017
0.09529249 Russia_EMBA_Kostenkova_izbushka:NEO65
0.09792101 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE667
0.09856141 RUS_Bazaikha_EMBA:BZK002
0.10066072 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE677
0.10992139 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE670
0.11082680 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE680
0.11189155 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE674
0.11600999 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE671
0.11805008 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE684
0.11850115 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE672

Distance to: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT016
0.08323451 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE681
0.09670660 RUS_Marinskaya_EBA:MK3001
0.09927868 CHN_Chemurcheck_Chagangole_MBA1:C2037
0.10200338 CHN_Chemurcheck_Chagangole_MBA1:C2049
0.10293164 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE685
0.10321294 MNG_Chemurchek_EMBA_2:I12978
0.10343495 CHN_Chemurcheck_Chagangole_MBA1:C2047
0.10352833 CHN_Dzungaria_EBA2:G218M5-3N
0.10693473 CHN_Chemurcheck_Chagangole_MBA1:C2046
0.10824865 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE672

Distance to: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT015
0.03532195 KAZ_Kazakh_steppe_MBA:EBA1
0.04199856 Russia_Baraba_MBA_Vengerovo2:NEO921
0.04199856 Russia_Odino_MBA_Vengerovo2:NEO921
0.04307172 Russia_EMBA_Siberia:NEO79
0.04385383 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE684
0.04552533 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE719
0.04621194 Russia_EMBA_Siberia:NEO68
0.04784310 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE683
0.04811607 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE515
0.05011519 RUS_Okunevo_MBA:RISE672

Distance to: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT004
0.06195897 CHN_Dzungaria_EBA2:G218M5-3N
0.06653484 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o3:I1028
0.06945120 CHN_Chemurcheck_Chagangole_MBA1:C2045
0.06950865 CHN_Songshugou_MBA1:C3344
0.06976005 CHN_Dzungaria_EBA2:G218M5-2
0.07048318 CHN_Chemurcheck_Chagangole_MBA1:C2046
0.07251280 MNG_Chemurchek_EMBA_2:I12978
0.07252613 Kazakhstan_MBA_Andronovo:NEO57
0.07289323 CHN_Chemurcheck_Chagangole_MBA1:C2049
0.07360450 KAZ_Mereke_MBA:I11735

Distance to: Russia_Rostovka_BA:ROT002
0.07586893 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MBA:kra001
0.08965649 RUS_Yakutia_Ymyiakhtakh_MBA:N4b2
0.14287947 RUS_Ust_Ida_MBAA356
0.14495110 RUS_Lake_Baikal_EBA:irk075
0.14582693 RUS_Lena_River_MBA:irk068
0.14589525 RUS_Baikal_EMBA:I7779
0.14600931 RUS_Baikal_EMBA:GLZ003
0.14602541 RUS_Baikal_MBA:KPT006
0.14720547 RUS_Baikal_MBA:KPT004
0.14774364 RUS_Angara_River_EBA:irk034