Origins of M-458

[leonardo]

According to the "Ancestral Path" option at FTDNA Discovery there are 12 immediate descendants of YP263 over150 years of time passed, which makes for a rapid expansion. There are 118 present day testers at FTDNA. The TMRCA is 150 BCE. I think of the Zarubinsty Culture, where is butted up against the Przeworsk.

[leonardo]

This site has slightly adjusted the location of M458 at 5000 YBP. here is also M458 at 3100 YBP and 2400 YBP.

[okshtunas]

New basal L1029 individual(managed kit) of German ethnicity from Poland, more specifically Bydgoszcz (back when it was part of Prussia) recently appeared on yfull https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L1029/

[okshtunas]

A new modern individual has been added in yfull who is R-M458>PF7521*. I messaged him and waiting on response. Unfortunately the sample is Nebula, and more often than not those kits fall off with no communication. 

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PF7521/

[leonardo]

I just noticed that I have another Big Y match. The man is from Hungary and our shared branch is R-Y2921, around 350CE. Currently there are 8 matches with German ancestry, 3 from Czechia, 3 from Poland and this man from Hungary. His terminal clade is R-FTB88328.
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna...8328/story

[okshtunas]

A new modern individual has been added in yfull who is R-M458>PF7521*. I messaged him and waiting on response. Unfortunately the sample is Nebula, and more often than not those kits fall off with no communication. 

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PF7521/

Turns out the sample is active enough. He's actually from South Holland, Netherlands. 

Considering R-PF7521* is parent to CTS11962 and L260, his placement and origin is interesting.

[leonardo]

A new modern individual has been added in yfull who is R-M458>PF7521*. I messaged him and waiting on response. Unfortunately the sample is Nebula, and more often than not those kits fall off with no communication. 

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PF7521/

Turns out the sample is active enough. He's actually from South Holland, Netherlands. 

Considering R-PF7521* is parent to CTS11962 and L260, his placement and origin is interesting.

Obotrites?

[okshtunas]

A new modern individual has been added in yfull who is R-M458>PF7521*. I messaged him and waiting on response. Unfortunately the sample is Nebula, and more often than not those kits fall off with no communication. 

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PF7521/

Turns out the sample is active enough. He's actually from South Holland, Netherlands. 

Considering R-PF7521* is parent to CTS11962 and L260, his placement and origin is interesting.

Obotrites?

Doubtful. If he was L1029 sure.

[alexfritz]

There are now 31 descendant lineages of YP445, so it appears that my male-line kin were the opposite of my mother's maternal grandfather, Edgar Robinson, who had ten children, but all daughters.  The line appears to be Czech-German, with the Americans most likely of German descent (like myself), giving a preliminary 27 for Germany to 11 Czech, as I am assigning the eight American samples to Germany, given that German-Americans greatly outnumber Czech-Americans.

looks like another 2 were added just recently
and likewise alreadyupdated / featured on the Tree 

now 21 samples is not too bad for some first insights and thus far it seems that most German YP445s  are indeed YP445* (for now) and ~1/3 downstream YP729; but there are also 68 YP445s from country ? so there is still some potential left; i myself for example am not on Discovery YP445 either (on FTDNA as L1029+) as i did my downstream test with YSEQ (M458-pack) but if i would add myself with a known genealogy going back to the 1500s sGermany (markt Haltenbergstetten) then the FTDNA database def has atleast 8 YP729s Germany, and unknown how many else, though officialy now 7

[okshtunas]

There are now 31 descendant lineages of YP445, so it appears that my male-line kin were the opposite of my mother's maternal grandfather, Edgar Robinson, who had ten children, but all daughters.  The line appears to be Czech-German, with the Americans most likely of German descent (like myself), giving a preliminary 27 for Germany to 11 Czech, as I am assigning the eight American samples to Germany, given that German-Americans greatly outnumber Czech-Americans.

looks like another 2 were added just recently
and likewise alreadyupdated / featured on the Tree 

now 21 samples is not too bad for some first insights and thus far it seems that most German YP445s  are indeed YP445* (for now) and ~1/3 downstream YP729; but there are also 68 YP445s from country ? so there is still some potential left; i myself for example am not on Discovery YP445 either (on FTDNA as L1029+) as i did my downstream test with YSEQ (M458-pack) but if i would add myself with a known genealogy going back to the 1500s sGermany (markt Haltenbergstetten) then the FTDNA database def has atleast 8 YP729s Germany, and unknown how many else, though officialy now 7

I know it sounds dictatorial, but these companies really need to make adding recent ancestry info/flags mandatory, for the accuracy of data. Of course unless it's truly unknown. But, I wouldnt be surprised if a large number of the unknowns are known, and people are just lazy with filling it out.

[leonardo]

YFull has a new sample under R-YP5267 (a branch of YP263). The tester apparently is able to go back far in time to hie earliest ancestor:
Der Schmeisser, b. 1405 and d. about 1470 Germany YF129575 new R-YP5267*

[alexfritz]

YFull has a new sample under R-YP5267 (a branch of YP263). The tester apparently is able to go back far in time to hie earliest ancestor:
Der Schmeisser, b. 1405 and d. about 1470 Germany YF129575 new R-YP5267*

might be new to Yfull but im pretty sure the customer was already on FTDNA earlier - Samples STRs No 176662

the sample was familiar to me from the M458-project as it is actually one of my 'close by' L1029s from Mönchsroth near Dinkelsbühl, the other is a fellow YP619 (YP446 > FT49702) from Öhringen - No 746904

FTDNA M458-project map
(top pin is me, YP445 > YP729 1500s markt Haltenbergstetten today Niederstetten)

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Spoiler

[leonardo]

YFull has a new sample under R-YP5267 (a branch of YP263). The tester apparently is able to go back far in time to hie earliest ancestor:
Der Schmeisser, b. 1405 and d. about 1470 Germany YF129575 new R-YP5267*

might be new to Yfull but im pretty sure the customer was already on FTDNA earlier - Samples STRs No 176662

the sample was familiar to me from the M458-project as it is actually one of my 'close by' L1029s from Mönchsroth near Dinkelsbühl, the other is a fellow YP619 (YP446 > FT49702) from Öhringen - No 746904

FTDNA M458-project map
(top pin is me, YP445 > YP729 1500s markt Haltenbergstetten today Niederstetten)

Show Content

Spoiler

So you and this tester probably are descended from the Sorbs? This seems most likely. The only other option would be an Obotrites who were as far west and south as Hamburg. to Bremen.

[alexfritz]

YFull has a new sample under R-YP5267 (a branch of YP263). The tester apparently is able to go back far in time to hie earliest ancestor:
Der Schmeisser, b. 1405 and d. about 1470 Germany YF129575 new R-YP5267*

might be new to Yfull but im pretty sure the customer was already on FTDNA earlier - Samples STRs No 176662

the sample was familiar to me from the M458-project as it is actually one of my 'close by' L1029s from Mönchsroth near Dinkelsbühl, the other is a fellow YP619 (YP446 > FT49702) from Öhringen - No 746904

FTDNA M458-project map
(top pin is me, YP445 > YP729 1500s markt Haltenbergstetten today Niederstetten)

Show Content

Spoiler

So you and this tester probably are descended from the Sorbs? This seems most likely. The only other option would be an Obotrites who were as far west and south as Hamburg. to Bremen.

i smwhat narrowed it down to two options
the first indeed deals with an EMA scenario and the old-Sorbs since all finds of pottery in the general area (Kocher r > Tauber r) from eg wüstung Wülfingen, Unterregenbach, wüstung Fuchsstadt and Schweinsdorf are linked to either the upper-Main or Saale area (Gross 1990); near Öhringen for example is the frm village Windisch-Pfedelbach today Windischenbach and in the general area there are five more villages and hamlets with a 'windisch-' prefix toponym of which the frm Windisch-Hohbach today Wendischenhof near Dörzbach would be the closest to Niederstetten; though here i have another theory in conjunction with the knights of Rosenberg taking over markt Haltenbergstetten (1415) and their fiefs at Boxberg incl the village of Windischbuch

next to the close by L1029s there is at the Germany YDNA project also a sample from close by Wertheim No N77748 which is M458 (NEVGEN L260) and per surname maybe related to a famous Wertheimer