New French & German Genetic Groups

[ChrisR]

$79, plus $9.99 shipping.  For a while now, there's been an "upgrade" button visible at initial login.

Yes, I've done it, got my update afterwards, but the current one being not delivered yet. Its basically a second test, with a new sample and processing etc.

Yeah, I just got an email saying the kit is on its way.

Thx for the clarification. Then in my case it is not interesting as I was supposing the upgrade will be done from the existing (archived) sample. I do not remember how 23andMe handles used spit kits. But again, not all donors might be available (physically or by consent) for doing a new sample at least in my case. And I would prefer having a WGS 30x+ first in many cases.

[Mulay 'Abdullah]

1/3 of my DNA results for French and German and no update since July 2022

Well, more than 2/3 for me and still no update as well.

Yeah, that's bad....I am directly mixed with french ancestry, I have french locations.

[muttgenes]

1/3 of my DNA results for French and German and no update since July 2022

Well, more than 2/3 for me and still no update as well.

82.5% of my DNA results are French & German and I only tested last June if that makes any difference for updating. My maternal side and my father's maternal side are almost exclusively Russlanddeutsche and from heavily researched genealogies as they were some of the earliest settlers of the Dakotas.

[geebee-1015]

I've finally broken down and ordered an upgrade.  My current results are based on the v2-v3 chips, so obviously I haven't been getting any updates for a while.  Now I get to have the joy of waiting again (and waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting).

I'll let people new when I get my results.

I'm replying to my own post because I'm now seeing an extremely annoying consequence of choosing to upgrade.  Not only have my existing results immediately disappeared -- I haven't even gotten to take the new test yet -- but also I have results for my five tested siblings, my daughter, my deceased father, my wife, and her brother within my account.  If I switch to their profiles, I don't get any of their results or relationships!  I paid for every one of these tests, and they have nothing to do with my own test or upgrades, so I don't see why I can't now see any of their results even from within their profiles.

[Motolinea]

VEry bad decision from 23andMe , why would they lump together France and Germany ? They are genetically easily distinguishable, except for maybe Alsace.

[Riverman]

VEry bad decision from 23andMe , why would they lump together France and Germany ? They are genetically easily distinguishable, except for maybe Alsace.

No they are not. Northern French and South Western-Western Germans have too much of an overlap for making a clean cut. There is no ethnicity estimate which gets it right in a solid way. Basically there is a strong overlap of German, English, French and Scandinavian, because of the common Celto-Germanic roots of these people. Southern French and Basque are a different matter.

[geebee-1015]

I've finally broken down and ordered an upgrade.  My current results are based on the v2-v3 chips, so obviously I haven't been getting any updates for a while.  Now I get to have the joy of waiting again (and waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting).

I'll let people new when I get my results.

I'm replying to my own post because I'm now seeing an extremely annoying consequence of choosing to upgrade.  Not only have my existing results immediately disappeared -- I haven't even gotten to take the new test yet -- but also I have results for my five tested siblings, my daughter, my deceased father, my wife, and her brother within my account.  If I switch to their profiles, I don't get any of their results or relationships!  I paid for every one of these tests, and they have nothing to do with my own test or upgrades, so I don't see why I can't now see any of their results even from within their profiles.

Since my previous post I have been able to access my original results.  This is also true for those of my wife and daughter.  

My kit is now at the DNA genotyping stage, with results predicted to be ready July 24th.  :-)

[muttgenes]

VEry bad decision from 23andMe , why would they lump together France and Germany ? They are genetically easily distinguishable, except for maybe Alsace.

As someone else stated, they are not so distinguishable unless you are from certain regions of France with centuries of heritage there. Alsace, Saarland, Belgium, Luxembourg, and other areas have histories of constant mixing and shifting as well as the rest of the Germanic region. There are also limited reference populations from France for various reasons.

[Mulay 'Abdullah]

VEry bad decision from 23andMe , why would they lump together France and Germany ? They are genetically easily distinguishable, except for maybe Alsace.

No they are not. Northern French and South Western-Western Germans have too much of an overlap for making a clean cut. There is no ethnicity estimate which gets it right in a solid way. Basically there is a strong overlap of German, English, French and Scandinavian, because of the common Celto-Germanic roots of these people. Southern French and Basque are a different matter.

On technical point of view, also most of southern france was celtic even in we can to speak of "celtization" for some areas like Auvergne as example, where some ancient historians spoke about local people with iberian and ligurian roots background before celts people ("gaulish" in ancient roman texts) settled and take the control of this area and then mixed with them. But in any case, finally they were also celtic people on cultural point of view even if they were "celtized" and "southwestern" mediterranean on genetical point of view.

[Motolinea]

VEry bad decision from 23andMe , why would they lump together France and Germany ? They are genetically easily distinguishable, except for maybe Alsace.

No they are not. Northern French and South Western-Western Germans have too much of an overlap for making a clean cut. There is no ethnicity estimate which gets it right in a solid way. Basically there is a strong overlap of German, English, French and Scandinavian, because of the common Celto-Germanic roots of these people. Southern French and Basque are a different matter.

No,, the overlap with Basques, those are just the SW French of the region of Gascony, the rest of southern french overlap with northern spaniards, 
so you have in reality that most of french are intermediate between iberians and germanics . The overlap with germanics only happens, as expected, in those areas bordering the germanic countries.

[Joey37]

I didn't get any groups, but I am only 10.6% French and German compared to the whopping 77.2% British and Irish, where I get four regions with one very close (South West England) and both countries (United Kingdom and Ireland) as matches.

[albion0209]

The only Genetic Group I got under my French & German (25.1%) is Ticino and Grisons -Very Close. 

Honestly disappointed that I got nothing in Germany itself which has been under my Country Matches for ages (with North Rhine-Westphalia and Hesse specified further). What would be accurate based on research I have done, family tree, etc. would be Rhineland-Palatinate area of Germany.

[muttgenes]

The only Genetic Group I got under my French & German (25.1%) is Ticino and Grisons -Very Close. 

Honestly disappointed that I got nothing in Germany itself which has been under my Country Matches for ages (with North Rhine-Westphalia and Hesse specified further). What would be accurate based on research I have done, family tree, etc. would be Rhineland-Palatinate area of Germany.

My father has the same MTDNA as you and my grandmother's family is from Alsace originally.

[JFWinstone]

I have no regions and have 26% French & German. My dad has 5.2% and has 5 Dutch Regions (North Holland, South Holland, Friesland, Groningen and Utrecht). My dad has a lot of Broadly NW Europe still which I think is part of his Dutch. My mum 12% no regions.

[geebee-1015]

The results of my upgrade just came in:

Northwestern European 90.1%

-- French & German 48.9%

• Western Swiss Plateau (Very Close)
  
• Rhineland (Very Close)
  
• Eastern German Plains (Close)
  

-- British & Irish 30.8%

• Northern Ireland & Central Scottish Lowlands (Very Close)
  
• Northern & Central Scotland (Very Close)
  
• Scotland & Northern Ireland (Very Close)
  
• Scottish Highlands & Western Islands (Very Close)
  
• Wales (Very Close)
  
• England (Distant)
  

-- Finnish 0.4%

-- Broadly Northwestern European 10.0%

Southern European 6.2%

-- Spanish & Portuguese 6.1%

• Balearic Islands, Alicante, and Southern Valencia (Very Close)
  

-- Broadly Southern European 0.1%

Indigenous American 2.1%

-- Indigenous American 2.1%

Western Asian & North African 1.2%

-- Anatolian 1.2%

Not too different from the estimate based on earlier chips, and much closer to my known (paper trail) ancestry than AncestryDNA.  For comparison, here are those numbers:

• England & Northwestern Europe 69% (50-72%)
  
• Scotland 16% (0-33%)
  
• France 4% (0-26%)
  
• Germanic Europe 4% (0-40%)
  
• Indigenous Americas - North 2% (0-2%)
  
• Wales 2% (0-8%)
  
• Finland 1% (0-1%)
  
• Eastern European Roma 1% (0-2%)
  
• Ireland 1% (0-4%)
  

But even this is an improvement for Ancestry, since only a couple of updates ago they were saying I had no Germanic Europe!  My father's side of my family has spent over 250 years in Pennsylvania, and my ancestors on this side have mostly German surnames.  Those that weren't German were primarily Scottish and Scots-Irish, but Ancestry thinks I'm mostly English.  (Technically, England & Northwestern Europe, but Ancestry speaks of that region as synonymous with simply, "English".)