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J2b-L283
#1
Looks like there is another migration. Starting a thread so we can continue to discuss this haplogroup on this new forum.

J2b-L283 YFull YTree:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L283/

J2b-L283 Ancient DNA map by Trojet:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid...999993&z=5
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#2
Hopefully this forum is here to stay.

J-L283 portal by Hunter Provyn: 

https://phylogeographer.com/j2b-l283/

J-L283 Heat Map by Hunter Provyn and Thomas Krahn:

https://hras.yseq.net/?dna_type=y&map_type=classic
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#3
Is our boy from Kotias Klde (NEO281) going to make the cut or not from the Stone Age Eurasia study?  It seems there are still quite a few samples from that study missing from ENA.
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#4
(10-02-2023, 06:18 PM)Polska Wrote: Is our boy from Kotias Klde (NEO281) going to make the cut or not from the Stone Age Eurasia study?  It seems there are still quite a few samples from that study missing from ENA.

I've been checking the relevant link at ENA, but it's still missing as of today. Maybe the rest of the samples will be available once the study is published in a journal.

Since this is a new forum, I'd also like to link the archived J2b-L283 thread from Anthrogenica where many important discoveries about this haplogroup were posted and discussed: https://genoplot.com/discussions/topic/16983/j2b-l283/1
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#5
Trojet dateline='[url=tel:1697133326' Wrote: 1697133326[/url]']
(10-02-2023, 06:18 PM)Polska Wrote: Is our boy from Kotias Klde (NEO281) going to make the cut or not from the Stone Age Eurasia study?  It seems there are still quite a few samples from that study missing from ENA.

I've been checking the relevant link at ENA, but it's still missing as of today. Maybe the rest of the samples will be available once the study is published in a journal.

Since this is a new forum, I'd also like to link the archived J2b-L283 thread from Anthrogenica where many important discoveries about this haplogroup were posted and discussed: https://genoplot.com/discussions/topic/16983/j2b-l283/1

I see Pribislav has NEO281 labeled as J2b2 Z2486*, or pre Z534.  You and Pribislav almost always arrive at the same conclusion when doing your reads on these samples, so I’m assuming this placement looks good to you?

https://genarchivist.com/showthread.php?...37#pid1537

Also, ph2ter has a late Neolithic similarity map for NEO281, fwiw.  It’s interesting.
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#6
That is correct. I also see that NEO281 is pre J2b-Z534, as he is splitting that level.
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#7
I have a theory regarding how my J2b L283 ancestors MAY have made their way into southern Poland and the Beskid Mountains. 

I have another BigY match, this time with an American who traces his ancestors back to a small town in the Beskid Mountains in Slovakia about 100 miles south from where my paternal ancestors descend.  There was an archaeological culture centered in this area called the Puchov Culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%BAchov_culture

Basically, there were 2 Celtic tribes associated with Puchov: the Cotini and Anartes.  This was starting around the second century BCE that they settled in the area.  It is thought that the Illyrians had some influence on this Puchov Culture, which makes me think this could be when some L283 was introduced to this part of the Carpathians.

Even the etymology of the word “Beskid” or “Bieszczady” is theorized to possibly have paleo Balkan origins.  For example, “bjeshke” in Albanian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beskids

Then there is this Celtic tribe: the Cotini.  They were Gauls.  It’s impossible to read about the Cotini and not notice mention of 1.) Illyrians and 2.) Puchov Culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotini

In my case, I’m curious if my J2b L283 PH1602 line moved out from Croatia into western Pannonia and then on to Slovakia, Czech Republic, and southern Poland as part of this Puchov Culture.  Interestingly, Puchov also appears to be roughly contemporaneous with the Illyro-Roman Wars.  

Lastly, I see that we now have a Pole from the Silesia area (southern Poland) who is on the same branch as the Illyrian samples from Croatia.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FT115799/
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#8
Made my way to this forum at last.

Also, happy flag day to my fellow Albanians.
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#9
Hey guys, I didn't realize the forum changed. looking forward to seeing the thread continue.
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#10
Here is all of the J2b-L283 samples from the "A genetic history of the Balkans from Roman frontier to Slavic migrations" paper (https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092...23)01135-2):

I15546
Grave No. 26 
380-410 CE 
Serbia_Timacum
Slog Ravna village (Timacum Minus), Slog Necropolis 
L2a1+143+16189  (16192) 
J-Z597 J2b,J-M102,J-Z534,J-Z1825,J-Z593,J-M241,J-L283,J-Z622,J-Z600,J-Z585,J-Z615,J-Z597 
J2b2a1a1a~

I15547 
Grave No. 27A 
380-410 CE 
Serbia_Timacum
Slog Ravna village (Timacum Minus), Slog Necropolis 
H+152 
J-L283 J2b,J-M102,J-Z534,J-Z1825,J-Z593,J-M241,J-L283 
J2b2a1

I15548 
Grave No. 28 
380-410 CE 
Serbia_Timacum
Slog Ravna village (Timacum Minus), Slog Necropolis 
W+194 
J-Z1043 J2b,J-M102,J-Z534,J-Z1825,J-Z593,J-M241,J-L283,J-Z622,J-Z600,J-Z585,J-Z615,J-Z597,J-Z2507,J-Z638,J-Z1297,J-Z1295,J-Z8421,J-Z631,J-Z1043
J2b2a1a1a1a1a1a1~

I26752 (new sample)
G 17 
200-300 CE 
Croatia_Osijek 
Ban Jelačić Square, Osijek 
K1b1a1a 
J-Y23094 J2b,J-M102,J-Z534,J-Z1825,J-Z593,J-M241,J-L283,J-Z622,J-Z600,J-Z585,J-Z615,J-Z597,J-Z2507,J-Z638,J-Z1297,J-Y27522,J-Y23094 
J2b2a1a1a1a1a2a~

I28397 (new sample)
Grave 139 
700-900 CE 
Croatia_Nustar Dvorac, Nuštar 
J1c1b1a 
J-Z1043 J2b,J-M102,J-Z534,J-Z1825,J-Z593,J-M241,J-L283,J-Z622,J-Z600,J-Z585,J-Z615,J-Z597,J-Z2507,J-Z638,J-Z1297,J-Z1295,J-Z8421,J-Z631,J-Z1043
J2b2a1a1a1a1a1a1~

I34800 (new sample)
Grave 50-A 
700-900 CE 
Croatia_Nustar Dvorac, Nuštar 
H16 
J-Z1043 J2b,J-M102,J-Z534,J-Z1825,J-Z593,J-M241,J-L283,J-Z622,J-Z600,J-Z585,J-Z615,J-Z597,J-Z2507,J-Z638,J-Z1297,J-Z1295,J-Z8421,J-Z631,J-Z1043
J2b2a1a1a1a1a1a
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#11
Video 
I made a map of the six J2b-L283 samples from the paper @Glitch linked above. Noteworthy about ID I26752 is that it is the oldest J2b-L283>Y23094 sample thus far.
[Image: J2b-L283-Olaldepaper.jpg]
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#12
J2b-L283>Z1043 aDNA distribution map with the newly added samples:
[Image: J2b-L283-Z1043.jpg]
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#13
(12-09-2023, 10:32 PM)elflock Wrote: J2b-L283>Z1043 aDNA distribution map with the newly added samples:
[Image: J2b-L283-Z1043.jpg]

Hi,

I'm a bit surprised by this map.
Apparently you are considering 1st millenium CE samples on the J-Z1043 branch.
Why aren't you including the German and the Swedish samples ?

Also, considering the very close time of diversification for Z631 and Z1043, adding the Italian Z631 sample might be relevant (particularly when considering that it is the oldest sample on the Z631 branch up to now).

Cheers,
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#14
@GHurier 

The maps aren't good and I initially did this Z1043 map for myself, so no real purpose other than having a recap of the samples from Southeast Europe/Pannonia so far. You're right, a Z631 map would probably be better considering the phylogeny.
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#15
(12-09-2023, 10:32 PM)elflock Wrote: J2b-L283>Z1043 aDNA distribution map with the newly added samples:
[Image: J2b-L283-Z1043.jpg]

Nice map for J-Z1043 distribution. It's good to have maps which focus on regions which have a special relation to certain clades.

I15548 is now the second oldest Z1043 sample, located about 400km east of R3481 who is the oldest Z1043 sample.

Distance to: Serbia_TimacumSlog:I15548
0.03055078 Serbia_SvilosKrussevlje_Roman.SG
0.03532561 Hungary_EarlyMidAvar
0.03536734 Croatia_BA
0.03652018 Hungary_IA_Scythian_oAegean.SG
0.03658172 Serbia_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean.SG
0.03703242 Greece_Logkas_MBA.SG

Distance to: Serbia_TimacumSlog:I15548
0.03765034 Albanian
0.04002796 Greek_Macedonia
0.04051197 Italian_Lombardy
0.04058765 Italian_Bergamo
0.04096147 Greek_Thessaly
0.04214066 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04337464 Italian_Piedmont

Phylogeographer (Hunter Provyn) wrote an interesting article about Z1043 a while back: J2b-FT33373 an Iron Age Line of J2b-Z1043 with Significant Western Balkans Diversity.
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