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Questioning pre-civilization models: indingeous Scandinavians and Amerindians
#1
I'm used to theories about viking slavery and theft of women, it's also very cool in the historic marine activity of Norway where I am have my genealogy, everyone is very exotic with like ancestry from Spain, Italy and what not due to trade and fishery, while probably universally true it takes quite a lot to make a population impact without peopulation migrations.

My MtDNA is V15a2 and in the R-L21 branch R-BY11863.
Having done NGS with both medical and genealogical services, where the former has by far best SNP accuracy, and rather boring outside of green/amber and blue eyes genes and 50% reduced risk of liver disease.

My GedCom is:
GEDmatch Ref: 5609090 : I500003

And is rather boring, my cousing with its own genealogy web page has the most interesting thing as a possible Roman saddlemaker 8 generations back.
Otherwise small time farmers and fisherman at least 11 generations back.

My gedmatch kit has closer to 1.5 million original SNP before slimming.

I don't use K36 as that places me in north western germany per German proto-norse theories, and obviously due to haplogroups I'm Irish in spite the fact that there aren't that many icelandic in my haplogroup from a distinctvey different and geographically isolated region from where the Icelandic originated whom had more interaction that way. Specifically, its the blue region in North West with a light blue tounge north of it by Norwegian plateu and closer to Dovre, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_r...variations, as seen here in fig 3, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-021-00899-6.

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 is at least based on archelogical data such that Anzick-1 shows up.
https://erling-lundevaller.netlify.app/p...-location/

Quote:Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Kit KV1931303

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 44.77
2 Atlantic 21.47
3 Eastern_Euro 11.18
4 West_Med 9.94
5 Baltic 9.42
6 Amerindian 0.87
7 South_Asian 0.75
8 West_Asian 0.72
9 Oceanian 0.34
10 Northeast_African 0.32
11 Sub-Saharan 0.15
12 Siberian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_Norwegian 5.57
2 Norwegian 6.76
3 Swedish 8.56
4 Orcadian 9.01
5 North_Dutch 9.32
6 Danish 10.15
7 West_Scottish 10.86
8 Southwest_English 11.17
9 North_Swedish 11.26
10 Southeast_English 11.42
11 Irish 11.64
12 West_German 11.67
13 North_German 13.08
14 South_Dutch 14.69
15 French 17.55
16 East_German 17.92
17 Southwest_Finnish 18.68
18 Finnish 20.6
19 Hungarian 21.63
20 Austrian 23.49

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.9% West_Norwegian + 3.1% Sardinian @ 5.33
2 96.3% West_Norwegian + 3.7% Spanish_Galicia @ 5.49
3 98.6% West_Norwegian + 1.4% Moroccan @ 5.52
4 97.5% West_Norwegian + 2.5% Portuguese @ 5.53
5 98.8% West_Norwegian + 1.2% Algerian @ 5.53
6 98.9% West_Norwegian + 1.1% Mozabite_Berber @ 5.54
7 98.5% West_Norwegian + 1.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.55
8 96.3% West_Norwegian + 3.7% West_German @ 5.55
9 98.6% West_Norwegian + 1.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.55
10 99.8% West_Norwegian + 0.2% Papuan @ 5.56
11 99.6% West_Norwegian + 0.4% MA-1 @ 5.56
12 99.8% West_Norwegian + 0.2% Mayan @ 5.56
13 98.6% West_Norwegian + 1.4% French @ 5.56
14 99.6% West_Norwegian + 0.4% Tunisian @ 5.56
15 99.7% West_Norwegian + 0.3% Sakilli @ 5.56
16 99.7% West_Norwegian + 0.3% Kol @ 5.56
17 99.8% West_Norwegian + 0.2% Karitiana @ 5.56
18 99.8% West_Norwegian + 0.2% Anzick-1 @ 5.56
19 99.3% West_Norwegian + 0.7% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.56
20 99.8% West_Norwegian + 0.2% Chamar @ 5.56


Ontop of this, I am positive for all things discussed here, mtDNA V and yDNA L21/M529.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1199377/
And possible to speculate here.
https://academic.oup.com/hmg/article/30/R1/R64/6028725

Quote:Comparing Kit KV1931303 (Olav Smørholm) [YSEQ] and Kit KZ1717272 (*Canada Cree B) [Select a Company or Source]

Hard Breaks Checked for cM (2.0) if GAP is greater than 500000 Basis Pairs.
Segment threshold size will be adjusted dynamically with an average of 208 SNPs. About 2/3 will occur between 191 and 225.
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.
Largest segment = 3.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 7.3cM (0.203 Pct)

2 shared segments found for this comparison.

193041 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.713 Percent of SNPs are full identical.


Quote:Comparing Kit KV1931303 (Olav Smørholm) [YSEQ] and Kit XA1462764 (*Canada Cree A) [Select a Company or Source]

Hard Breaks Checked for cM (2.0) if GAP is greater than 500000 Basis Pairs.
Segment threshold size will be adjusted dynamically with an average of 208 SNPs. About 2/3 will occur between 191 and 225.
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.
Largest segment = 5.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 5.5cM (0.154 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

193195 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.772 Percent of SNPs are full identical.

Comparison took 0.265.
CPU time used: 0.034.

Quote:Comparing Kit KV1931303 (Olav Smørholm) [YSEQ] and Kit A469033 (*C S) [Migration - F2 - A]

Hard Breaks Checked for cM (2.0) if GAP is greater than 500000 Basis Pairs.
Segment threshold size will be adjusted dynamically with an average of 208 SNPs. About 2/3 will occur between 191 and 225.
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.
Largest segment = 4.1 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 21.1cM (0.589 Pct)

6 shared segments found for this comparison.

602660 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.47 Percent of SNPs are full identical.

Quote:Comparing Kit KV1931303 (Olav Smørholm) [YSEQ] and Kit JB9261919 (*Canada Ojibwe C) [Select a Company or Source]

Hard Breaks Checked for cM (2.0) if GAP is greater than 500000 Basis Pairs.
Segment threshold size will be adjusted dynamically with an average of 208 SNPs. About 2/3 will occur between 191 and 225.
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.
Largest segment = 4.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 4.5cM (0.127 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

192828 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.037 Percent of SNPs are full identical.

Some of the kits mentioned in the last few pages with native american samples.
Hoping there are some experts curious about my high resolution kit.

And most of my relatives that MyHeritage have social science determed to be Italian are from outside Hustadvika, for me that's 5% italian and can quite a bit higher, but they may embrace parts of their population with old traditions of marine activity better than Norway that is working on growing the agriculture economy.

Many things are athropologically possible, but between archeology and it being largely impossible to live off anything other than a marine economy as primary activity.
This is funny, because broad generalisation, expectations and steretypes aren't shared, and largely ignored and omitted, of course there is pride in this reputation.
But there also isn't a single DNA sequencing from any burials anywhere near this part of Norway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnjRoLwcKjo

Molde somewhat famous for its Jazz festival, also have Saami with Reindeer in town every christmas, there are some things the locals know to be wrong.
So maybe the locals in parts of Norway are right, and central Europe is wrong with their remote speculation on own behalf.
Used to Saami in nice clothes and pretty animals, anything is possible in social anthropology, including native americans conquering Norway or Norwegians used to Saami stealing native americans in early modern migrations to America, but it's a bit of a stretch on behalf of Euro centric history and anthropology as steretypical war mongering and barbaric in kind -- K36 and World-22 must be horribly wrong, causing many to not be interested for the piling up of confirmation bias on faulty ideas and models. Otherwise, "choose a norwegian cruise captain, especially from that part that have many, as the people have instincts to survive from fisheries for thousands of years in some of the most dangerous waters in the world". While Norwegians take care to talk Saami into joining expeditions on land in the Arctic, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_C...snowdrifts.

Most so called anthropology with sound theories actually don't have much.

Most probably Sioux according to this forum:

Quote:Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Kit A469033

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Amerindian 70.31
2 Siberian 11.92
3 Eastern_Euro 7.15
4 North_Sea 4.73
5 Southeast_Asian 4.41
6 Atlantic 0.92
7 Oceanian 0.57

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Amerindian 10.68
2 Mayan 22.78
3 Pima 24.43
4 Anzick-1 27.11
5 Karitiana 38.4
6 East_Greenlander 48.53
7 West_Greenlander 49.52
8 MA-1 69.42
9 Chukchi 76.01
10 Shors 85.94
11 Tatar 86.16
12 Afghan_Hazara 86.59
13 Koryak 86.62
14 Uygur 86.66
15 Afghan_Turkmen 86.76
16 Uzbeki 86.79
17 Chuvash 86.97
18 Hazara 87.43
19 Mari 87.46
20 Nogay 88.02

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.2% Karitiana + 30.8% Shors @ 3.27
2 78% Pima + 22% Shors @ 3.37
3 76.1% Anzick-1 + 23.9% Shors @ 3.38
4 76.8% Anzick-1 + 23.2% Hakas @ 3.89
5 78.7% Pima + 21.3% Hakas @ 3.98
6 69.9% Karitiana + 30.1% Hakas @ 4.09
7 79.4% Mayan + 20.6% Shors @ 4.61
8 80% Mayan + 20% Hakas @ 4.82
9 68.9% Mayan + 31.1% West_Greenlander @ 5.01
10 80.3% Mayan + 19.7% Ket @ 5.11
11 77.5% Anzick-1 + 22.5% Altaian @ 5.15
12 79.3% Pima + 20.7% Altaian @ 5.3
13 80.9% Mayan + 19.1% Selkup @ 5.31
14 81.3% Mayan + 18.7% Tuvinian @ 5.53
15 80.5% Mayan + 19.5% Altaian @ 5.53
16 80.6% Mayan + 19.4% Saqqaq @ 5.91
17 78.6% Pima + 21.4% Mari @ 5.94
18 67.5% Pima + 32.5% West_Greenlander @ 6
19 70.7% Karitiana + 29.3% Altaian @ 6.01
20 65% Anzick-1 + 35% West_Greenlander @ 6.11

Quote:Comparing Kit KV1931303 (Olav Smørholm) [YSEQ] and Kit A469033 (*C S) [Migration - F2 - A]

Hard Breaks Checked for cM (2.0) if GAP is greater than 500000 Basis Pairs.
Minimum segment threshold size to be included in total = 25 SNPs.
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.
Largest segment = 6.4 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 56.4cM (1.573 Pct)

15 shared segments found for this comparison.

602660 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.47 Percent of SNPs are full identical.

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 seem to work better, but maybe not entirely for native americans.
But I suspect a greater Scandinavian and North American interest if the gaps aren't attempted filled with greedy algorithms or confirmation bias towards impact on horse back and buffalo hunting native americans, where it may very well be an entire tribe made it to Scandinavia and no nightmares or atrocities are involved outside of helping academic theories and ideological missionary activity around a no-compete principle for desireable neighbouring activity(genetically speaking, rather than cultural genocide for traits involved). So maybe it's entirely ethnic native american this probable Sioux kit, perhaps with attractive traits in early America? I think this has to be assumed, as it may be a commonly shared feared on behalf of neighbours. So I'm not going to pander some ideas, but maybe choose a ranch with native americans involved?

Norway in general don't want hear that any ethnic groups are extinct, due to viking age, missionary activity, forced education with academic drivel from europe, where destroying language and breaking down attitudes advantageous for them is worse enough. So have at my kit, but really want someone closer to Romsdalen, Dovre og Norwegian plateu, maybe Dalarne in Sweden and Umeå. While parts of Europe wonder where everyone from sparesely populated areas went, given their cultural presence in past times.

As also probably Sioux:
Quote:Comparing Kit KV1931303 (Olav Smørholm) [YSEQ] and Kit M944384 (*S Glass) [Migration - V4 - M]

Hard Breaks Checked for cM (2.0) if GAP is greater than 500000 Basis Pairs.
Minimum segment threshold size to be included in total = 25 SNPs.
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.
Largest segment = 5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 60.4cM (1.682 Pct)

17 shared segments found for this comparison.

491334 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.164 Percent of SNPs are full identical.

Quote:Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Kit M944384

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Amerindian 73.04
2 Siberian 13.01
3 Eastern_Euro 4.8
4 Southeast_Asian 3.03
5 Baltic 2.72
6 Oceanian 1.1
7 North_Sea 0.91
8 Atlantic 0.67
9 South_Asian 0.58
10 Red_Sea 0.09
11 West_Asian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Amerindian 9.55
2 Mayan 20.1
3 Pima 21.25
4 Anzick-1 23.98
5 Karitiana 35.28
6 East_Greenlander 50.14
7 West_Greenlander 51.82
8 MA-1 72.67
9 Chukchi 77.69
10 Koryak 88.37
11 Shors 89.1
12 Tatar 89.61
13 Afghan_Hazara 89.88
14 Afghan_Turkmen 89.97
15 Uzbeki 89.97
16 Uygur 90.01
17 Chuvash 90.59
18 Hazara 90.6
19 Mari 90.94
20 Nogay 91.26

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71% Pima + 29% West_Greenlander @ 2.57
2 68.5% Anzick-1 + 31.5% West_Greenlander @ 2.78
3 81.5% Pima + 18.5% Ket @ 2.97
4 81.4% Pima + 18.6% Hakas @ 3.03
5 80.9% Pima + 19.1% Shors @ 3.06
6 81.7% Pima + 18.3% Saqqaq @ 3.18
7 79.5% Anzick-1 + 20.5% Hakas @ 3.21
8 79.8% Anzick-1 + 20.2% Saqqaq @ 3.31
9 79% Anzick-1 + 21% Shors @ 3.4
10 82.1% Pima + 17.9% Selkup @ 3.42
11 59.6% Karitiana + 40.4% West_Greenlander @ 3.43
12 72.4% Karitiana + 27.6% Hakas @ 3.48
13 72.3% Mayan + 27.7% West_Greenlander @ 3.5
14 79.9% Anzick-1 + 20.1% Altaian @ 3.5
15 81.8% Pima + 18.2% Altaian @ 3.54
16 71.7% Karitiana + 28.3% Shors @ 3.55
17 79.7% Anzick-1 + 20.3% Ket @ 3.76
18 82.6% Pima + 17.4% Tuvinian @ 3.85
19 82.6% Mayan + 17.4% Saqqaq @ 4.02
20 82.5% Mayan + 17.5% Ket @ 4.07

It makes sense, but some parts may not be of entirely original origin.
Somewhat makes sense how quickly things go up compared with my half-cousin less exclusively from reefs and shoreline and more Romsdalen.
But half SNP in comparison and not sure about FTDNA and other providers.

Quote:Largest segment = 5.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 95.1cM (2.65 Pct)

26 shared segments found for this comparison.

301534 SNPs used for this comparison.

50.82 Percent of SNPs are full identical.

While this migration passes through eastern europe, and is a candidate for north american R1b neighbour, whatever that may be.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y13200/
And inviting even older questions than Q-L804 in the northern hemisphere.
Probably never getting rid of the need to understand the world from own perspective, some philosophy is needed to review if attachment is warranted.
Baltic and Scandinavia was vastly different 8000+ ybp, and in the North there is generally alot less doubt if the Reindeer herding migration path would have made it across the north pole or not. At the very least, it's a regular outcry in Norway if they try to make it difficult to get seasonal workers from Poland as they really don't want to use Norwegians for harvesting, but a derailment that isn't needed for agricultural europe. There are peculiarities around production cost for reindeer meat between north and south, that favours the south by an almost excessive amount, but I rest my case before crashing and burning entirely around strength, aspirasion and virtually unspoken truths.
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#2
This kind of thing is interesting to me.

My mother is mostly Irish, albeit with what appears to be trace Scandinavian dating back to the Viking era of Ireland. She scores trace amounts of Amerindian-like ancestry on most calcs (and even on an earlier build of 23andme). The thought of having distant Beothuk ancestry due to Leif Eriksson and his friends has crossed my mind.

HOWEVER: She does not have any matches with any of these samples even at 3cM, nor does she have any matches with samples on the other thread with the North Amerindian GEDmatch profiles. She DOES have >3cM matches with Central and Southern Amerindians though. My understanding is that some Central Amerindians from the Caribbean were part of the slave trade, and that some Irish people were indentured servants in the Caribbean. However, I have no evidence that my ancestors were ever indentured servants or slaves. All her matches which are closest to the Siberian/Amerindian/East Asian genetic profile are Turkic.

(and if you mean Romani as opposed to Roman, your results do bear that story out).
Avatar: The obverse of a coin of Kanishka I depicting the Buddha, with the Greco-Bactrian legend ΒΟΔΔΟ.

Follow my attempt at reviving Pictish.
Romanes-lekhipen- the Romani alphabet.
Reply
#3
(06-10-2024, 08:21 PM)szin Wrote: This kind of thing is interesting to me.

My mother is mostly Irish, albeit with what appears to be trace Scandinavian dating back to the Viking era of Ireland. She scores trace amounts of Amerindian-like ancestry on most calcs (and even on an earlier build of 23andme). The thought of having distant Beothuk ancestry due to Leif Eriksson and his friends has crossed my mind.

HOWEVER: She does not have any matches with any of these samples even at 3cM, nor does she have any matches with samples on the other thread with the North Amerindian GEDmatch profiles. She DOES have >3cM matches with Central and Southern Amerindians though. My understanding is that some Central Amerindians from the Caribbean were part of the slave trade, and that some Irish people were indentured servants in the Caribbean. However, I have no evidence that my ancestors were ever indentured servants or slaves. All her matches which are closest to the Siberian/Amerindian/East Asian genetic profile are Turkic.

(and if you mean Romani as opposed to Roman, your results do bear that story out).

I did have a look in the gedmatch, "Norse, Scottish and Irish" or equivalent group.
And at 0.5cM there was high correlation with some coastal parts of Scottland.
Much more so than with others from remote parts of Norway.
Most Scottish hits involved ability to point at specific Fjords at the west coast of Norway, and in some cases far North.

I actually lived in Jamaica, Montego Bay in 1999 as a student at Cornwall College there.
Had many interesting talks concerning Brittish presence and what happened to indigenous Jamaica.
Didn't have any children there, so wont find my me there for that reason.

More seriously, high cM hits are much harder to get with whole genome samples.
In spite of that, the general rule is a correlation between shared ancestry and time.
Not having any 3 cM hits where they are expected come down to chance and population distance.

However, this is somewhat a black magic black box you would need experts to answer.

That being said, my comparison to Rathlin1 at 3cM:
Quote:Comparing Kit KV1931303 (Olav Smørholm) [YSEQ] and Kit F999800 (Rathlin1 Ireland 2.0ky cal BC) [GEDmatch Xfer]

Hard Breaks Checked for cM (2.0) if GAP is greater than 500000 Basis Pairs.
Segment threshold size will be adjusted dynamically with an average of 208 SNPs. About 2/3 will occur between 191 and 225.
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.
Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 21.1cM (0.589 Pct)

6 shared segments found for this comparison.

814533 SNPs used for this comparison.

55.332 Percent of SNPs are full identical.

It's impossible, there is an overlap I have that you do not. While Rathlin1 as a that old sample show as 1% Amerindian.
Could be the genes for amber and blue eyes, or 50% reduction in risk for liver diseasee, but I have those.

Somehow, it feels like this, (photo from tobacco advertisement museum):
https://digitaltmuseum.no/011013509583/r...a-et-fjell
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#4
A core argument attempted made around this, is to think carefully around armchair anthropology and archeology.
That drown in national and cultural idenities that are involved, but perhaps mostly around economic activity.
Where locals all over the world from village to village have notions of us and them hard to distinguish from outside.

Wether it is fragments mixed around ancient population migrations, culturally or economically preferred traits passed back and forth.

The room to romanticize a pocket of Reindeer herders suriving an ice age in Norway isn't impossible around practices of cremeating their dead.
Starting to come down and finding others that survived the end of the world.

Historic arm chair anthropology around European barbarians, arctic tribes may not be more helpful than excessive efforts mapping flags and national idenities on fragments to deduce pre-historic times from historic Roman writings.

Are there simpler and more reasonable explanations for this than Vikings something something, colonialism something something, warlords and priates or something something, or what here seems to be attempts to bypass human migrations and major historic developments to argue that Europe is the ancestral origin of Reindeer herders and Camel herder and nomads.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1199377/
https://academic.oup.com/hmg/article/30/R1/R64/6028725

By shere magic, samples from Norway are easily brushed aside as being involved in colonialism, losing to powerful and superior Europeans, or it's the feudal Viking age and their technology, but never Roman or Italian feudal times and civil wars, and a growing amount of hypothetical European ancestors that naturally resist influx and influence from neighbours and trade routes. Or that population explosion Europe has lost so much they need unity and others fighting and solving problems for them and be rewarded for their contributions to history, culture, progress and civilization.

Close to be impossible to address the topic without navigating around or clawing onto a detail that doesn't ruffle feathers around commonly shared fear of having lost neighbours and groups important for cutural development between shared activity. So, is large parts of Europe angry about losing entertainment and stories or cultural impressions from trade with Scandinavia and the equivalent of Arabs fighting Arabs for control over trade routes and hubs? Generally easier to externalise the issues than and focus on impact on distant populations than to ask questions about local neighborhood expected to be resillient. And there isn't many words of wisdom archeological or anthropological that resemble theory towards sanity and human nature, around for example; burried may mean agricultural culture and activity, and odd findings may be someone lost or wandered off. On the idea that forrestry culture burials can't involve dangling people from trees. While discussing if a bottoms up longship burried in farmland is telling or not, while not a serious enough proposition for science, it could be an expectation.

As for the Saami-Berber connection in spite of common beliefs and expectations, that Reindeer skin trade with Berbers were stupendously lucrative.
https://dovrefjell-sunndalsfjella.no/villrein/
There are quite a few large piles of bones after resindeer "massacres" some 50 cubic meter of bones.
https://www-forskning-no.translate.goog/...50%20years.

Lending itself to understand cultural references to a Skald/poet at the party of some powerful Norwegian in Viking age.
Accusing the host to be cheap with meat, then to be proposed he gets force fed porrage and the response, "kill me Lord, but not with porrage".
The meat may have been hard to get rid off if assuming reindeer hairs were attractive to weave into Berber carpets, would probably still be worth its weight in gold. https://septentrio.uit.no/index.php/rang.../view/1203

Quote:Haakon was the son of Sigurd HaakonssonJarl of Lade and ruler of Trøndelag and Hålogaland. His mother was Bergljot Toresdatter, daughter of Tore RagnvaldssonJarl of MøreAdam of Bremen wrote that he was "of the stock of Ivar (either Ivar the Boneless or Ivar Vidfamne) and descended from a race of giants".[1] In the sagas, Haakon claimed descent from the divine lineage of Sæming, son of Odin. The Hakon Jarl Runestones in Sweden may refer to him.

Reindeer meat being notoriously low in vitamin-d.
There is a principle in statistics known more as 'look elsewhere effect'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_c...ns_problem
Is Reindeer low vitamin-d and ridiculously high vitamin-d relevant for "observations" around regions tightly linked to Reindeer in varying degrees and comparisons. And there is some evidence that this has lead to an interest and search for the mythical Europeans that did the most genetic or ethnic damage to native americans. While major populations in Norway don't really desire Reindeer herding in some parts back, Berbers could demand historic trade back for cultural and historic economic reasons, and claim that the meat isnt their problem --- maybe? While you look for ancestral Europeans with good vitamin-d uptake around the hypothesis of living off hunting them through an ice age, around minor traits and adaptation to avoid broken bones depending on food sources. Or nightmares of ancient times, needing to hide farms in dense forests and hide from hordes of Reindeer and herders needing water sources and summer grazing as to why Eastern Europe and Baltics are as it is. Living off of Reindeer in desperate times and little ice ages and adapting to lack of complimentary and supplimentary food sources isn't helpful for usual national idenities and confirmation bias on behalf of self-image. Widely regarded as both ancestral and historically important activity, it's avoided like nothing else. And probably Thor Heyerdahl is fringe, and there are no models that involve european herders and fishermen, and why it's unthinkable with pre-civilization native american contact with europe as it doesn't feed the need to be guilty and proud at the same time. https://azertag.az/en/xeber/thor_heyerda...re-1519929
But obviously, taking concepts or appealing and identifying, perhaps even unifying ideas litterally is fringe, complete void of critical review and concluding a real ancestral connection from, "This unexpected finding not only confirms that the Franco-Cantabrian refuge area of southwestern Europe was the source of late-glacial expansions of hunter-gatherers that repopulated northern Europe after the Last Glacial Maximum but also reveals a direct maternal link between those European hunter-gatherer populations and the Berbers.". While "herders" doesn't imply tame animals, more than "hunters" imply big game and group efforts. Where this effect with Reindeer is extraordinarily peculiar, as if European didn't discover the same, https://www.livescience.com/64778-viking...clone.html as an arguably prey-animal behaviour protecting central parts of the herd.

The modern complexity is high, but possible to be somewhat empirical and logical for pre-civilization around dissimilar specialized activity and inherent tribal behaviour with varying degrees of competition  and mutual interests leaving some things to coincidence but no others. Where trash on the floor in the kitchen where you sleep doesn't really imply a complicated social activity, rather than somewhat family centered and survivalist with early farmer overlap? Tame or wild, herding and organised farming may be on equal footing for begging tribal fishermen and hunter gatherers as with running down big game to exhaustion.

Problem isn't a lack of romantic imagery of men of nature with weapons and knowledge of plants or fierce fighers as brutal as the worst nature has to offer.
Or that the noble small farm owner with hunting tools and a family in search of tribal leaders of old in a modern artificial structure that doesn't feel natural.
Maybe the Town center is the answer, to demand someone organise things to be able to defend against herders that threaten crops and improve trade.

But may be a slippery slope for herders with access to marine food sources or salmon and only the ground to hide in.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%B6kk%...%C3%A1lfar
Some things would be so prevalent and common references it would be among the things taken for granted and not written about much.
Poetry need to be relevant somehow, and context can be terribly difficult to work out, and the need to dig a hole in the ground to sleep during hot midnight sun summers in the arctic is easier to sympathize with the further north you are aquainted. Anyways, it's possible that pretty much anything will work better than theories based on Roman writings, which ironically is an extinct language, likely tied Germany monestaries spear heading the work to understand the North as germanic, with Futhark going out of use along with old high german as an extinct language in the 17th century. European autism hard at work, where many probably want to look into whether Thor Heyerdahl was schizophrenic for willingness to take Norse cultural reference literally without leaning on Latin and German references or anecdotes, ending up close to Armenia that have Saami mtDNA and perhaps part of East Norse trade route, but Azerbaijan and simmilar looking stone carvings as found around Scandinavian herding. Norn language as such recently went extinct and was a germanic language with no connection to gaelic, irish or specific west norwegian dialects, as that would require overlapping boxes that wouldn't be helpful for tidy language borders easier to deal with from a perspective of 'academic', 'intellectual' or 'constructed' trade languages and exchanges. And the verdict is still out on English being germanic or an even stranger mix that involve norse, anglican and french but perhaps not dutch, or its germanic? While many results and discoveries of ancestral groups have been discovered around the infallable central european ideals on activity, traits and character, with love for forests, camp fires and swine with admiration for mountain dwellers in the alps maybe. As a way of the describing the pinnacle of highly debated arm chair anthropology, sociology and linguistics. Where there may be information theoretic similarities for languages that sound like a broken engine, being surrounded by too many languages families, and like perhaps not being ancestral to everything for finding fragments going everywhere from major population centers and metropolitan areas; writing down what one hear and are told with a personal expression and perspective from a central european culture, such that its hopeless to chip away at it, but crowd sourcing and argueing for reliable or representative genealogical samples may work along with questioned archeological data expected to have modern relevance and framed around basic and historic economic activity that doesn't involve feudal agriculture as the only thing that matters and can ignore climate reigions and environmental overlaps.
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#5
TL;DR

Nothing made sense for me before getting whole genome samples that removes guesswork, ending with borting north atlantic profile with nothing exotic outside of historic trade routes and activity involving Norway, no evidence of Norwegian pirates ship wrecked spaniards or italians looking for fish, that made it to shore and settled down.

According to MyHeritage I'm at least 5% Italian however, various ethnic profiling tools wants me to be north west german, or otherwise wanting me to be from other places in the atlantic than norway as I'm certainly not from Oslo.

While commonly held beliefs in Norway seem to be confirmed, that reindeer herders made it back and forth to north america, where this and herding activity from eurasia to scandinavia isn't part of any models, and unless its mostly archeological it spectacularly fails, and doesn't seem to be the expecion for many places in the world.

So I'd like to see K36 that gives me the highest and best fit in north west germany, and world-22 that give me high matches for, 'Ethnic Utah with north western european ancestry' set on fire and trashed.

Make it hard to work out if I'm a thorough bred slaver, rapist or pirate nor evidence that several ethnic groups are extinct and replaced by germans, irish and italians. Because if daunted by the authority of results and what is read, the reasonable explanation might be that Norwegian immigrants in the US integrated with native americans or are the worst of the worst of pilgrims, or well, seem to be corrected for but enough references to scandinavian-american admixes being fitted to obscure tribes to confusing and baffeling degrees. Something must be fundamentally wrong with the mappings, and ad-hoc corrections over broken underlying assumptions.
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