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U5a2c3a
#16
(06-12-2024, 04:15 PM)rmstevens2 Wrote: I guess the " ~7,000-year-old farmer from Iberia" is Els Trocs, sample I0410, who was V88. We know PF6323 (the father clade of V88) was evidently the first Y-DNA R1b group to move west into peninsular Europe. See this thread.

Villabruna 1 was R1b-L761 xL389, P297 at a time when L389 and its "son" P297 both already existed, so evidently Villabruna 1 belonged to a dead-end Y-DNA lineage with no modern descendants. 

I've posted this before, but here's something Davidski wrote over at Eurogenes back in 2016:

Quote:- Villabruna is a sister clade of the earlier European Vestonice clade, but with significant input from an AfontovaGora3-related North Eurasian population, perhaps one that was living north of the Black Sea after the Kostenki people went the way of the dodo

- Hence, the R1b lineage carried by Villabruna I9030, the individual in this Treemix series, probably comes from the Eurasian steppe"

Eurogenes Blog: Villabruna

help me to understand this thing you said


Villabruna 1 was R1b-L761 xL389, P297

going directly to the problem

you mean this: Villabruna is likely not the grand  grand grand father of the individual or clans that fathered the R1b M269 on the pontic caspian steppe
but still

Villabruna could be an grand grand uncle of the R1b M 269 in the steppe?

Did I get you right?
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#17
(06-12-2024, 06:08 PM)old europe Wrote:
(06-12-2024, 04:15 PM)rmstevens2 Wrote: I guess the " ~7,000-year-old farmer from Iberia" is Els Trocs, sample I0410, who was V88. We know PF6323 (the father clade of V88) was evidently the first Y-DNA R1b group to move west into peninsular Europe. See this thread.

Villabruna 1 was R1b-L761 xL389, P297 at a time when L389 and its "son" P297 both already existed, so evidently Villabruna 1 belonged to a dead-end Y-DNA lineage with no modern descendants. 

I've posted this before, but here's something Davidski wrote over at Eurogenes back in 2016:

Quote:- Villabruna is a sister clade of the earlier European Vestonice clade, but with significant input from an AfontovaGora3-related North Eurasian population, perhaps one that was living north of the Black Sea after the Kostenki people went the way of the dodo

- Hence, the R1b lineage carried by Villabruna I9030, the individual in this Treemix series, probably comes from the Eurasian steppe"

Eurogenes Blog: Villabruna

help me to understand this thing you said


Villabruna 1 was R1b-L761 xL389, P297

going directly to the problem

you mean this: Villabruna is likely not the grand  grand grand father of the individual or clans that fathered the R1b M269 on the pontic caspian steppe
but still

Villabruna could be an grand grand uncle of the R1b M 269 in the steppe?

Did I get you right?

Sort of, if by "grand grand uncle" you mean a seriously very much more distant relative. Villabruna 1 was a stray R1b-L761 xL389,P297 HG who belonged to a Y-DNA lineage that died with him or soon thereafter. However, in terms of his relationship to the rest of R1b-M343 as a whole, he appears (according to Davidski at least) to have come from a lineage "with significant input from an Afontova Gora3-related North Eurasian population, perhaps one that was living north of the Black Sea after the Kostenki people went the way of the dodo".

In other words, Villabruna 1's Y-DNA lineage was not native to peninsular Europe but came from east of peninsular Europe and from among an ANE people.

Villabruna 1 had nothing to do with R1b-M269, since he was not even derived for L389, except that as an R1b-L761 xL389,P297 he shared a MRCA with M269 at L761 about 17,000 years ago.
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