Haplogroup E In the Arabian Peninsula

[Inquirer]

According to Y-Full and Family TreeDNA, there are many people in the Arabian Peninsula who carry subclades of Haplogroup E (Y-Full and Family Tree DNA). In fact, there are Arabian carriers for pretty much every major branch of Haplogroup E (e.g. E-M75, E-M132, E-M35, E-M329, E-M2, etc). Additionally, a very early branch of E-P177 has been discovered in Yemen.

In light of this, what do you think is the explanation for subclades of Haplogroup E being in the Arabian Peninsula?

That Haplogroup E formed there? That Aboriginal Africans who carried subclades of Haplogroup E migrated there or were brought there? Or perhaps a combination of both scenarios?

[Capsian20]

According to Y-Full and Family TreeDNA, there are many people in the Arabian Peninsula who carry subclades of Haplogroup E (Y-Full and Family Tree DNA). In fact, there are Arabian carriers for pretty much every major branch of Haplogroup E (e.g. E-M75, E-M132, E-M35, E-M329, E-M2, etc). Additionally, a very early branch of E-P177 has been discovered in Yemen.

In light of this, what do you think is the explanation for subclades of Haplogroup E being in the Arabian Peninsula?

That Haplogroup E formed there? That Aboriginal Africans who carried subclades of Haplogroup E migrated there or were brought there? Or perhaps a combination of both scenarios?

Actually, the history of haplogroup E in the Arabian Peninsula is quite varied, even among the subclades of E-M35. There are local branche (E-Y6169), as well as branches that came from Levant E-M123 (xY6169) and North Africa E-L19 and E-V22 and E-V12 (xV32) and others that came from East Africa E-V32 and E-M239 . As for other branches like E-V38 and E-M75 i believe the majority might be from African migrants to Saudi Arabia in recent centuries. Regarding the Yemeni sample E-P177*, dont forget that there is another sample from South Africa, but there is no information about their TMRCA

[Riverman]

Like I said before in other threads, I think haplogorup E being associated with Basal Eurasians and widespread in the Arabian peninsula in the Paleolithic-Mesolithic era, even before the Natufian culture. But this needs to be proven or disproven by samples which predate the Natufian period.
Before we have such samples, its everybodies best guess, nothing more.

[Inquirer]

According to Y-Full and Family TreeDNA, there are many people in the Arabian Peninsula who carry subclades of Haplogroup E (Y-Full and Family Tree DNA). In fact, there are Arabian carriers for pretty much every major branch of Haplogroup E (e.g. E-M75, E-M132, E-M35, E-M329, E-M2, etc). Additionally, a very early branch of E-P177 has been discovered in Yemen.

In light of this, what do you think is the explanation for subclades of Haplogroup E being in the Arabian Peninsula?

That Haplogroup E formed there? That Aboriginal Africans who carried subclades of Haplogroup E migrated there or were brought there? Or perhaps a combination of both scenarios?

Actually, the history of haplogroup E in the Arabian Peninsula is quite varied, even among the subclades of E-M35. There are local branche (E-Y6169), as well as branches that came from Levant E-M123 (xY6169) and North Africa E-L19 and E-V22 and E-V12 (xV32) and others that came from East Africa E-V32 and E-M239 . As for other branches like E-V38 and E-M75 i believe the majority might be from African migrants to Saudi Arabia in recent centuries. Regarding the Yemeni sample E-P177*, dont forget that there is another sample from South Africa, but there is no information about their TMRCA

I wasn't aware of the South African sample of E-P177. Do you have a link to a source about it?

[Inquirer]

Like I said before in other threads, I think haplogorup E being associated with Basal Eurasians and widespread in the Arabian peninsula in the Paleolithic-Mesolithic era, even before the Natufian culture. But this needs to be proven or disproven by samples which predate the Natufian period.
Before we have such samples, its everybodies best guess, nothing more.

My personal opinion is the following:

• BT and L3'4 formed in East-Central Africa (i.e. around South Sudan, Uganda, Ethiopia, etc)
  
• Some carriers of BT and L3'4 migrated to the Northeast Africa (i.e. around Egypt, Sudan)
  
• Among the people who remained in East-Central Africa, BT and L3'4 became B-M60 & L4 ~88 kya  (based on Y-Full & Fig. S26 of Fernandez et al [2015])
  
• Among the people who migrated to Northeast Africa, BT and L3'4 became CT and L3  (based on Y-Full & Fig. S26 of Fernandez et al [2015])
  
• Among the latter, CT first became CF. Then carriers of CF and some carriers of L3 migrated out of Africa via Egypt, during which CF became C & F, and L3 became N.
  
• Among remaining people in Northeast Africa, CT became DE, DE became D & E, and - within a carrier of D - D became D0.
  
• Some carriers of D and L3 migrated out of Africa via Egypt, during which D became D-M174 and L3 became M.
  
• Among the remaining people in Northeast Africa, D became D0 and L3 became the African subclades of L3 (e.g. L3a, L3bcd, L3eikx, L3f & L3h)
  

[Capsian20]

According to Y-Full and Family TreeDNA, there are many people in the Arabian Peninsula who carry subclades of Haplogroup E (Y-Full and Family Tree DNA). In fact, there are Arabian carriers for pretty much every major branch of Haplogroup E (e.g. E-M75, E-M132, E-M35, E-M329, E-M2, etc). Additionally, a very early branch of E-P177 has been discovered in Yemen.

In light of this, what do you think is the explanation for subclades of Haplogroup E being in the Arabian Peninsula?

That Haplogroup E formed there? That Aboriginal Africans who carried subclades of Haplogroup E migrated there or were brought there? Or perhaps a combination of both scenarios?

Actually, the history of haplogroup E in the Arabian Peninsula is quite varied, even among the subclades of E-M35. There are local branche (E-Y6169), as well as branches that came from Levant E-M123 (xY6169) and North Africa E-L19 and E-V22 and E-V12 (xV32) and others that came from East Africa E-V32 and E-M239 . As for other branches like E-V38 and E-M75 i believe the majority might be from African migrants to Saudi Arabia in recent centuries. Regarding the Yemeni sample E-P177*, dont forget that there is another sample from South Africa, but there is no information about their TMRCA

I wasn't aware of the South African sample of E-P177. Do you have a link to a source about it?

The split between P177 and P2 was based on from Michael Hammer’s lab in Arizona, where he and Tatiana Karafet performed Y-DNA research with the technology available at the time. Their test method involved testing individual Y-SNPs either one by one or in smaller Y-SNP panels. Tatiana informs us that the sample that caused the P177>P2 split was from South Africa, Zulu tribe of East Bantu, and that it was found to have the private mutation P75

https://blog.familytreedna.com/ydna-haplogroup-e-split/

[Inquirer]

Actually, the history of haplogroup E in the Arabian Peninsula is quite varied, even among the subclades of E-M35. There are local branche (E-Y6169), as well as branches that came from Levant E-M123 (xY6169) and North Africa E-L19 and E-V22 and E-V12 (xV32) and others that came from East Africa E-V32 and E-M239 . As for other branches like E-V38 and E-M75 i believe the majority might be from African migrants to Saudi Arabia in recent centuries. Regarding the Yemeni sample E-P177*, dont forget that there is another sample from South Africa, but there is no information about their TMRCA

I wasn't aware of the South African sample of E-P177. Do you have a link to a source about it?

The split between P177 and P2 was based on from Michael Hammer’s lab in Arizona, where he and Tatiana Karafet performed Y-DNA research with the technology available at the time. Their test method involved testing individual Y-SNPs either one by one or in smaller Y-SNP panels. Tatiana informs us that the sample that caused the P177>P2 split was from South Africa, Zulu tribe of East Bantu, and that it was found to have the private mutation P75

https://blog.familytreedna.com/ydna-haplogroup-e-split/

I wonder why it's not included in FTDNA's Haplotree or on Y-Full's Y-Tree. I see only the Yemeni sample on each of them.

[Qrts]

It's amply clear that E is multi-sourced in Arabia, but my general impression without aDNA is that most of it is rather recent. Majority of E1b1a would be sourced from Zanj slaves or African pilgrims (in Mecca), though E-M329 is rather ambiguous. Regarding E1b1b lineages: the proto-Arabs who underwent a J-FGC12 founder effect probably did indeed maintain a minority of E-M35 lineages. 

However, some E1b1b lineages would have become part of Arab tribal milieu through the tribal patronage system that was put in place under the Umayyads and Hajjaj ibn Yusuf in the Islamic period, and I believe the contributor here to be primarily Mesopotamia. IMO this is the same process that brought much of R and G lineages into the Arabian Peninsula, along with a significant portion of J2. 

I also suspect E-Z830>CTS10880 to be the lineage of the Natufian-like contributor prior to the arrival of Semitic-speakers from the Levant.

[Riverman]

Zulus have ancestry from East Africa. Therefore its possible it migrated from North East Africa South. It doesn't prove an old South African origin.

[Capsian20]

I wasn't aware of the South African sample of E-P177. Do you have a link to a source about it?

https://blog.familytreedna.com/ydna-haplogroup-e-split/

I wonder why it's not included in FTDNA's Haplotree or on Y-Full's Y-Tree. I see only the Yemeni sample on each of them.

Maybe not upgrade this sample academic to Y-700 maybe only STR and FTDNA tested SNP E-P177 < P75

[Capsian20]

Zulus have ancestry from East Africa. Therefore its possible it migrated from North East Africa South. It doesn't prove an old South African origin.

Well anyway, if their origin is from East Africa, ultimately the origin of haplogroup E from East Africa

[Riverman]

Zulus have ancestry from East Africa. Therefore its possible it migrated from North East Africa South. It doesn't prove an old South African origin.

Well anyway, if their origin is from East Africa, ultimately the origin of haplogroup E from East Africa

Possibly, but it doesn't prove it. E-M215/E1b1b made it to South Africa too with those herder lineages. Old map:



Not all of these herder lineages came with the Banut speakers, some came even before due to contacts of the Hottentots/Khoikhoi with Eastern African pastoralists.

This is another branch with a tester from South Africa, most are Eastern pastoralists (Maasai, Tutsi etc.) and Arabs:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M293/

The more upstream, the more Arabic, pointing to its Afro-Asiatic origins: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS10880/

[Capsian20]

Zulus have ancestry from East Africa. Therefore its possible it migrated from North East Africa South. It doesn't prove an old South African origin.

Well anyway, if their origin is from East Africa, ultimately the origin of haplogroup E from East Africa

Possibly, but it doesn't prove it. E-M215/E1b1b made it to South Africa too with those herder lineages. Old map:



Not all of these herder lineages came with the Banut speakers, some came even before due to contacts of the Hottentots/Khoikhoi with Eastern African pastoralists.

This is another branch with a tester from South Africa, most are Eastern pastoralists (Maasai, Tutsi etc.) and Arabs:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M293/

The more upstream, the more Arabic, pointing to its Afro-Asiatic origins: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS10880/

I dont mean origin of haplogroup E-M215 but i mean the origin of haplogroup E-M96 ( E)
As for haplogroup E-M215, it is most likely from northeastern Africa, between Sudan or Egypt, Libya

[Inquirer]

Like I said before in other threads, I think haplogorup E being associated with Basal Eurasians and widespread in the Arabian peninsula in the Paleolithic-Mesolithic era, even before the Natufian culture. But this needs to be proven or disproven by samples which predate the Natufian period.
Before we have such samples, its everybodies best guess, nothing more.

The diversity of E-M96 among Aboriginal Africans - and the lack of ancient Eurasian fossils that carry E-M96 (xE-M35) lead me to believe that E-M96 formed in Africa.

[ModusOperandi]

According to Y-Full and Family TreeDNA, there are many people in the Arabian Peninsula who carry subclades of Haplogroup E (Y-Full and Family Tree DNA). In fact, there are Arabian carriers for pretty much every major branch of Haplogroup E (e.g. E-M75, E-M132, E-M35, E-M329, E-M2, etc). Additionally, a very early branch of E-P177 has been discovered in Yemen.

In light of this, what do you think is the explanation for subclades of Haplogroup E being in the Arabian Peninsula?

That Haplogroup E formed there? That Aboriginal Africans who carried subclades of Haplogroup E migrated there or were brought there? Or perhaps a combination of both scenarios?

As others in this thread have already stated, I too am of the opinion that while certain branches of E are likely to have had a long presence in the region, namely those under E-M35. Others such as E-M75, E-M329, E-M2 I feel are more likely to be relatively recent migrants into the region. 

My reason for this assumption is that E among Arabians follows a strange distribution pattern. While yes if you check Y-full, Arabians seem to occasionally pop up with these rare deep rooted subclades of E, they however, more often then not, also turn up with the more derived subclades of these major sub-branches. With Arabians falling under clades with Africans from all across the continent, sometimes even being nested between subclades carried by Africans of the same ethnicity or general region. And these aren't some deeply split clades either, often only having a MRCA estimate of 4kya and younger. This to me seems to speak more to the fact of the Arabian peninsula being the frequent recipient of African Y-DNA in recent centuries, rather than an ancient Arabian dispersal of diverse clades of E all over the African continent 

The presence of those exotic E lineages in the Middle East might be giving us a glimpse of what might be found with increased sampling all over Africa. There's still too many holes in the big picture