(05-06-2024, 10:18 AM)Aramu Wrote: Most of You have probably noticed that in Bronze Age northwestern Iran there is an increase of Zagros Neo ancestry.
After some research I came to the conclusion that it's related to the spread of Grey ware which was previously erroneously considered as an Iron Age pottery. 
This spread coincide with the first mention of Kassites and Aryan terms.

More details here.

https://aramepal.blogspot.com/2024/03/the-origins-of-grey-ware-culture-in-iran.html?m=0

(05-06-2024, 12:03 PM)Andar Wrote:

(05-06-2024, 10:18 AM)Aramu Wrote: Most of You have probably noticed that in Bronze Age northwestern Iran there is an increase of Zagros Neo ancestry.
After some research I came to the conclusion that it's related to the spread of Grey ware which was previously erroneously considered as an Iron Age pottery. 
This spread coincide with the first mention of Kassites and Aryan terms.

More details here.

https://aramepal.blogspot.com/2024/03/the-origins-of-grey-ware-culture-in-iran.html?m=0

It certainly isnt related to Indo-Iranians and especially not to Mitanni-Maryanu. Lack of Steppe_MLBA and uniparental markers linked to Indo-Iranians especially for such an early period make a connection unlikely.

(05-06-2024, 02:28 PM)Aramu Wrote: Anyway I don't see who else could have triggered those migrations. The most earliest evidence of Aryan terms in Near East is dated at 1700bce. So a movement from Central Asia must have started at that period via the north Iran.

(05-06-2024, 02:36 PM)Andar Wrote: There might be a very early presence of some Indo-Iranians in the Near East that early but so far we have no concrete genetic evidence for this.

(05-06-2024, 02:45 PM)Kale Wrote:

(05-06-2024, 02:36 PM)Andar Wrote: There might be a very early presence of some Indo-Iranians in the Near East that early but so far we have no concrete genetic evidence for this.

How about the outliers from Alalakh and Megiddo MLBA?

(05-06-2024, 02:45 PM)Kale Wrote:

(05-06-2024, 02:36 PM)Andar Wrote: There might be a very early presence of some Indo-Iranians in the Near East that early but so far we have no concrete genetic evidence for this.

How about the outliers from Alalakh and Megiddo MLBA?

(05-06-2024, 05:43 PM)RCO Wrote: Real data of an Ancient Iranian-Aryan connection is here:

J1 Hasanlu 4097 - NW Iran - 1425-1284 BCE

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/J-ZS6602/tree

BMAC Central Asia, NW Iran, Iraq Kurdistan, Kazakhstan in the same J1 clade

(05-07-2024, 03:23 AM)ilabv Wrote:

(05-06-2024, 02:45 PM)Kale Wrote:

(05-06-2024, 02:36 PM)Andar Wrote: There might be a very early presence of some Indo-Iranians in the Near East that early but so far we have no concrete genetic evidence for this.

How about the outliers from Alalakh and Megiddo MLBA?

the 2 Megiddo outliers are Mitanni and the Alalakh outlier is BMAC

Megiddo outliers are 75% Bronze Age Upper Mesopotamian + 20% Steppe MLBA + 5% WSHG

(05-07-2024, 07:15 PM)pegasus Wrote:

(05-07-2024, 03:23 AM)ilabv Wrote:

(05-06-2024, 02:45 PM)Kale Wrote: How about the outliers from Alalakh and Megiddo MLBA?

the 2 Megiddo outliers are Mitanni and the Alalakh outlier is BMAC

Megiddo outliers are 75% Bronze Age Upper Mesopotamian + 20% Steppe MLBA + 5% WSHG

No, they have significant Caucasus and Catacomb related admixture as well they are not just pure Steppe MLBA , thats why its difficult to get a definitive result, I tried tonnes of times. The other older outlier is definitely just Steppe MLBA + IAMC admixture , she was almost certain the product of a local Canaanite woman and a very early Mitanni warrior. We still need to find the OG Mitanni ie the father of this girl, hopefully his remains are there somewhere. We need new samples , I am tired of using old samples from 4-6 years ago. 
Alalakh_o has a lot of excess WSHG ancestry, she is more on the lines of Bustan_o1 than BMAC proper.

(05-08-2024, 07:15 AM)ilabv Wrote:

(05-07-2024, 07:15 PM)pegasus Wrote:

(05-07-2024, 03:23 AM)ilabv Wrote: the 2 Megiddo outliers are Mitanni and the Alalakh outlier is BMAC

Megiddo outliers are 75% Bronze Age Upper Mesopotamian + 20% Steppe MLBA + 5% WSHG

No, they have significant Caucasus and Catacomb related admixture as well they are not just pure Steppe MLBA , thats why its difficult to get a definitive result, I tried tonnes of times. The other older outlier is definitely just Steppe MLBA + IAMC admixture , she was almost certain the product of a local Canaanite woman and a very early Mitanni warrior. We still need to find the OG Mitanni ie the father of this girl, hopefully his remains are there somewhere. We need new samples , I am tired of using old samples from 4-6 years ago. 
Alalakh_o has a lot of excess WSHG ancestry, she is more on the lines of Bustan_o1 than BMAC proper.

No evidence whatsoever of Caucasus and Catacomb ancestry

(05-08-2024, 09:36 AM)pegasus Wrote:

(05-08-2024, 07:15 AM)ilabv Wrote:

(05-07-2024, 07:15 PM)pegasus Wrote: No, they have significant Caucasus and Catacomb related admixture as well they are not just pure Steppe MLBA , thats why its difficult to get a definitive result, I tried tonnes of times. The other older outlier is definitely just Steppe MLBA + IAMC admixture , she was almost certain the product of a local Canaanite woman and a very early Mitanni warrior. We still need to find the OG Mitanni ie the father of this girl, hopefully his remains are there somewhere. We need new samples , I am tired of using old samples from 4-6 years ago. 
Alalakh_o has a lot of excess WSHG ancestry, she is more on the lines of Bustan_o1 than BMAC proper.

No evidence whatsoever of Caucasus and Catacomb ancestry

That is incorrect, the paper stated they do have excess Caucasus ancestry which  indeed they do, but its layered ancestry (Steppe MLBA + Catacomb), I extensively modelled all 3 outliers on AG , the siblings have complex admixture otherwise you would not get such a sterling model with Hajji Firuz BA, which likely means they picked up ancestry in that Urmia region before going to the Levant. 

The reason these individuals are distinct from the rest is that their Caucasus- or Zagros-related genetic component is much higher, reflecting ongoing gene flow into the region from the northeast

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867420304876

https://i.imgur.com/DDZje15.png